Climate change - how arsed are you?

[moof]

It’s extremely relevant 

[Dougie Do'ins]

Yeah, course that's the reason your force is stretched Dame Clarissa. 

 

BBC News - Extinction Rebellion protests 'stretch' Met Police

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50019458

[Karl_b]

I've tried really hard over the last few years to reduce my impact on our climate. I've significantly reduced my meat consumption to 1/2 portions a week; taken to growing my own veg to reduce water usage, plastic and CO2 emissions (we top it up with a seasonal, UK, organic veg box); upgraded the fabric of our house; gone to 100% renewable electricity; stopped holidaying abroad (one work related flight soiling that); tried to reduce plastic waste (switched to soap and solid shampoo bars, don't buy plastic wrapped fruit and veg, bought beeswax cloths to wrap food in, etc); started making our own compost (the chickens help with that!) and tried to seriously reduce the amount of stuff I buy. It's really difficult and we're fortunate that we can choose to make some of the choices we do (food particularly). 

 

It still isn't enough, I've pledged not to fly at all in 2020 (which has already ruled me out of a project at work) but there are so many things we could do better: we still rely on a car, gas central heating and can't entirely remove our dependence on plastic.

 

Even if we did everything we could, and we nowhere near do, then it STILL wouldn't be enough, the political will isn't there. We need completely green energy and infrastructure, a multi-billion dollar investment in public transport (fuelled by zero carbon electricity sources), to upgrade the fabric of our old building stock and find ways to roll out renewable heating, cooling, hot water systems.

 

In construction (my industry) we need to recognize that 40% of the world's CO2 emissions are caused by the construction and running of buildings. We need to consider better building design, based around reducing the wholelife impact of the methods and materials we use. But we won't, because the political and economic status quo have too much to lose from it. We're fucked. I can recycle and compost all I like but we're still fucked.

 

If you don't want to give up/reduce your meat consumption and flights to foreign holidays then you're not trying hard enough. 

Edited October 11, 2019 by Karl_b

[aRdja]

50 minutes ago, Nelly-Torres said:

The absolute boy!

[Jairzinho]

42 minutes ago, Dougie Do'ins said:

Yeah, course that's the reason your force is stretched Dame Clarissa. 

 

BBC News - Extinction Rebellion protests 'stretch' Met Police

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50019458

What an absolute dick.

[SasaS]

2 hours ago, Karl_b said:

I've tried really hard over the last few years to reduce my impact on our climate. I've significantly reduced my meat consumption to 1/2 portions a week; taken to growing my own veg to reduce water usage, plastic and CO2 emissions (we top it up with a seasonal, UK, organic veg box); upgraded the fabric of our house; gone to 100% renewable electricity; stopped holidaying abroad (one work related flight soiling that); tried to reduce plastic waste (switched to soap and solid shampoo bars, don't buy plastic wrapped fruit and veg, bought beeswax cloths to wrap food in, etc); started making our own compost (the chickens help with that!) and tried to seriously reduce the amount of stuff I buy. It's really difficult and we're fortunate that we can choose to make some of the choices we do (food particularly). 

 

It still isn't enough, I've pledged not to fly at all in 2020 (which has already ruled me out of a project at work) but there are so many things we could do better: we still rely on a car, gas central heating and can't entirely remove our dependence on plastic.

 

Even if we did everything we could, and we nowhere near do, then it STILL wouldn't be enough, the political will isn't there. We need completely green energy and infrastructure, a multi-billion dollar investment in public transport (fuelled by zero carbon electricity sources), to upgrade the fabric of our old building stock and find ways to roll out renewable heating, cooling, hot water systems.

 

In construction (my industry) we need to recognize that 40% of the world's CO2 emissions are caused by the construction and running of buildings. We need to consider better building design, based around reducing the wholelife impact of the methods and materials we use. But we won't, because the political and economic status quo have too much to lose from it. We're fucked. I can recycle and compost all I like but we're still fucked.

 

If you don't want to give up/reduce your meat consumption and flights to foreign holidays then you're not trying hard enough. 

So why do it then?

[Bjornebye]

2 hours ago, Karl_b said:

I've tried really hard over the last few years to reduce my impact on our climate. I've significantly reduced my meat consumption to 1/2 portions a week; taken to growing my own veg to reduce water usage, plastic and CO2 emissions (we top it up with a seasonal, UK, organic veg box); upgraded the fabric of our house; gone to 100% renewable electricity; stopped holidaying abroad (one work related flight soiling that); tried to reduce plastic waste (switched to soap and solid shampoo bars, don't buy plastic wrapped fruit and veg, bought beeswax cloths to wrap food in, etc); started making our own compost (the chickens help with that!) and tried to seriously reduce the amount of stuff I buy. It's really difficult and we're fortunate that we can choose to make some of the choices we do (food particularly). 

 

It still isn't enough, I've pledged not to fly at all in 2020 (which has already ruled me out of a project at work) but there are so many things we could do better: we still rely on a car, gas central heating and can't entirely remove our dependence on plastic.

 

Even if we did everything we could, and we nowhere near do, then it STILL wouldn't be enough, the political will isn't there. We need completely green energy and infrastructure, a multi-billion dollar investment in public transport (fuelled by zero carbon electricity sources), to upgrade the fabric of our old building stock and find ways to roll out renewable heating, cooling, hot water systems.

 

In construction (my industry) we need to recognize that 40% of the world's CO2 emissions are caused by the construction and running of buildings. We need to consider better building design, based around reducing the wholelife impact of the methods and materials we use. But we won't, because the political and economic status quo have too much to lose from it. We're fucked. I can recycle and compost all I like but we're still fucked.

 

If you don't want to give up/reduce your meat consumption and flights to foreign holidays then you're not trying hard enough. 

All that yet Gary Neville has grown his own Tellytubby house. Made you look a right mug he has. 

[Gooch]

Why do I get the impression that the only people that will end up having to make all the sacrifices will be us plebs, whilst the people/businesses mainly responsible will remain largely unaffected.

 

Sounds like austerity rebranded to me.

[Vincent Vega]

Winning the argument.

 

[Red Shift]

I'm not convinced that CO2 is the driver. There have been periods in history where CO2 has been well over 400 parts per million and we survived as a species.

The so called 'green' tech is not perfect either - wind generators only seem to bring a reduction of very small amounts of CO2 (assuming I'm wrong, and CO2 is the main driver) and they kill birds and bats, apparently. Solar panels will have to be disposed of when they no longer convert sunlight to electricity, and dismantling them is a nasty business, with toxic byproducts. No doubt the developing world gets lumbered with dismantling old solar panels.

There is a gas being used in renewable electricity generation ( I forget its name) that is apparently far more of a problem than CO2, so there are still lots of questions.

I think we have more chance of a nuclear war in the short to medium term if we don't learn to live together peacefully, than we have of being made extinct by climate change.

Having said all that, I comply with local recycling laws, have gone whole food plant based in the last 12 months, and would love to get my hands on a Tesla.

[Numero Veinticinco]

12 hours ago, Nelly-Torres said:

Can’t believe Corbyn keeps voting for climate change. Bastard doesn’t care. 

[Karl_b]

10 hours ago, SasaS said:

So why do it then?

In a hope that those big changes are made and that more people do the same. My quality of life is probably better for making those changes.

[Moctezuma]

3 hours ago, Red Shift said:

I'm not convinced that CO2 is the driver. There have been periods in history where CO2 has been well over 400 parts per million and we survived as a species.

The so called 'green' tech is not perfect either - wind generators only seem to bring a reduction of very small amounts of CO2 (assuming I'm wrong, and CO2 is the main driver) and they kill birds and bats, apparently. Solar panels will have to be disposed of when they no longer convert sunlight to electricity, and dismantling them is a nasty business, with toxic byproducts. No doubt the developing world gets lumbered with dismantling old solar panels.

There is a gas being used in renewable electricity generation ( I forget its name) that is apparently far more of a problem than CO2, so there are still lots of questions.

I think we have more chance of a nuclear war in the short to medium term if we don't learn to live together peacefully, than we have of being made extinct by climate change.

Having said all that, I comply with local recycling laws, have gone whole food plant based in the last 12 months, and would love to get my hands on a Tesla.

Not sure why I'm bothering given you've basically outright said you don't believe in peer reviewed science (good luck treating future illnesses with berries by the way), but the line in bold does irritate, surviving as a species does not constitute human civilisation, all you have to do is look at political instability caused by any number of natural disasters or climatic alterations to see that our societies aren't the most robust when coming up against external shocks of this type.

 

Ancient Egypt, the Classical Maya, Hittites, Harappa, Anasazi and innumerate other civilisations bit the dust in large part due to climate forcing's let alone fighting that has recently occurred in Syria, Sudan and Afghanistan. The French revolution was partially sparked by food shortages and famine derived from a Icelandic volcanos eruption, do you reckon crop failure from climate change would have minimal effects?

 

The wind generator thing is mince as well an average onshore wind turbine produces enough power for about 1,500 households in the UK and that is basically 25 years plus of pure clean energy after the first 2.5 years of repaying the carbon deficit of fabrication/construction. Some of the larger turbines they're setting up far exceed this.

 

 

I agree with you about the nuclear war issue but that increase in likelihood is partially driven by the effects of climate change.

[Davelfc]

I Liked it when it was branded as 'Global Warming' and I could have grown grapes in my garden, of course carbon tax was something voluntary that you could offset then. I was looking forward to not having to go abroad to search for the sun, it was about time the climate shifted and we got some warm weather and the hot places got some of our shit weather. 

 

There's little doubt we humans have some impact on our planets ecosystem but it's also a fact that the climate does and will change itself on a cyclical basis. Volcanoes, earthquakes and other natural events also can and do have massive effects. When Yellowstone blows we're fucked, don't think that's the only one that would cause a near extinction event. A mass coronal ejection from the sun if strong enough could wipe out all the life on this planet, how dare it!

 

Again, as with the obesity epidemic there's not much we can do to stop all this. I do my bit, I use my paper bags from Morrisons and I try to reduce my travel in the car. I recycle everything I can and you won't catch me with paper cups. But go to the USA and they hand out plastic bags with wild abandon. China spews crap into the atmosphere on a huge scale making all the shit we used to make. How do we stop that, stop buying shite? 

 

Large companies that release 10 new televisions each year, mobile phone companies that release several new phones each year. They all cry that they're environmentally friendly but if they were they'd release a new device every 5 years instead, allow user serviceable parts and make things to last rather than disposable. 

 

Any governments response is usually a tax, in fact that seems to be their answer to most things. If we are in the last chance saloon right now then ban the sale of luxury electronic goods, soft furnishings and all of the other piddly crap that we think we need but don't. Ration fuel, limit air travel, ration food, invest heavily in public transport and make car manufacturers build only small economical cars. Ban the manufacture of washing machines, dishwashers and dryers, make people wash and dry by hand. Of course unless every single country does the same then you're pissing in the breeze. People want their luxuries, people want their new phones every year, people want their pointless gadgets and want those new fashion statements and different furniture every few years. 

 

The planet is fine even if we are trashing our environment, there was a time it was a ball of hot molten rock and iron and it sorted itself out from that. If we, basically a cancer on the surface, trash the place to the point we can no longer survive then the planet will carry on. In fact it and life will thrive without us, like it did for the roughly 4 billion years before us. New species will evolve and within a few thousand years very little of the damage we have done will be noticeable. 

 

Today 4 asteriods fly quite close today, none of them are expected to hit us as in our terms they are too far away, although in space terms they will be quite close. One day (as in the past) one of them could impact earth and all our problems will be solved in an instant. 

 

 

[Rico1304]

It amazes me how people can be dismissive of the science.  Is there anything else has a huge scientific consensus that you disagree with? Say, smoking causing cancer or the earth circling the sun? 

[Bobby Hundreds]

It is bizarre. Even if climate change was wrong surely cleaning the planet, preventing pollution and using technology to provide cleaner renewable energy sources that ultimately become cheaper in the long run would just be a better road to take anyway. 

[Mudface]

1 hour ago, Rico1304 said:

It amazes me how people can be dismissive of the science.  Is there anything else has a huge scientific consensus that you disagree with? Say, smoking causing cancer or the earth circling the sun? 

 

Your two examples there are exactly why- the smoking- cancer link was buried or distorted for years by pet 'scientists', and the heliocentric model of the solar system denied by religious dogma.

 

In the case of climate change, it's good PR from extremely rich people, and boundless stupidity from the likes of the BBC in the name of 'balance'. There is no balance when it comes to climate science, it's every scientist worthy of the name versus a relative handful of bought and paid for shills and outright cranks.

[cochyn]

2 hours ago, φαίνω said:

I Liked it when it was branded as 'Global Warming' and I could have grown grapes in my garden, of course carbon tax was something voluntary that you could offset then. I was looking forward to not having to go abroad to search for the sun, it was about time the climate shifted and we got some warm weather and the hot places got some of our shit weather. 

 

There's little doubt we humans have some impact on our planets ecosystem but it's also a fact that the climate does and will change itself on a cyclical basis. Volcanoes, earthquakes and other natural events also can and do have massive effects. When Yellowstone blows we're fucked, don't think that's the only one that would cause a near extinction event. A mass coronal ejection from the sun if strong enough could wipe out all the life on this planet, how dare it!

 

Again, as with the obesity epidemic there's not much we can do to stop all this. I do my bit, I use my paper bags from Morrisons and I try to reduce my travel in the car. I recycle everything I can and you won't catch me with paper cups. But go to the USA and they hand out plastic bags with wild abandon. China spews crap into the atmosphere on a huge scale making all the shit we used to make. How do we stop that, stop buying shite? 

 

Large companies that release 10 new televisions each year, mobile phone companies that release several new phones each year. They all cry that they're environmentally friendly but if they were they'd release a new device every 5 years instead, allow user serviceable parts and make things to last rather than disposable. 

 

Any governments response is usually a tax, in fact that seems to be their answer to most things. If we are in the last chance saloon right now then ban the sale of luxury electronic goods, soft furnishings and all of the other piddly crap that we think we need but don't. Ration fuel, limit air travel, ration food, invest heavily in public transport and make car manufacturers build only small economical cars. Ban the manufacture of washing machines, dishwashers and dryers, make people wash and dry by hand. Of course unless every single country does the same then you're pissing in the breeze. People want their luxuries, people want their new phones every year, people want their pointless gadgets and want those new fashion statements and different furniture every few years. 

 

The planet is fine even if we are trashing our environment, there was a time it was a ball of hot molten rock and iron and it sorted itself out from that. If we, basically a cancer on the surface, trash the place to the point we can no longer survive then the planet will carry on. In fact it and life will thrive without us, like it did for the roughly 4 billion years before us. New species will evolve and within a few thousand years very little of the damage we have done will be noticeable. 

 

Today 4 asteriods fly quite close today, none of them are expected to hit us as in our terms they are too far away, although in space terms they will be quite close. One day (as in the past) one of them could impact earth and all our problems will be solved in an instant. 

 

 

 

I hear this all the time off people and I just don't buy this argument. In fact it isn't even an argument and it bugs me. It's failure to engage with the issue by saying 'why bother? We're all fucked anyhow'. It's an excuse not to bother and it's pure defeatism.

 

The fact is there has been a momentum behind tackling climate change for decades now. There's opportunity in it and money to be made and money to be saved. And that's how it begins..

 

You're bang on right though.  Our generation hasn't a hope in hell of meeting the targets it's set itself. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't at least make a start on it. The next generation might have a chance of some level of mitigation if we put the infrastructure in place. The next after them might even start to find a way to reverse the human impact on climate change. They won't reverse climate change of course as - geologically speaking - the earth is coming out of a cold cycle and climate change is inevitable. But we can learn the strategies needed to slow it down. And hopefully stop the catastrophic effects of accelerated global warming. Then we can talk about relocating the billions of people that lives along our coasts.

 

My take on it is: in the short term it's a strategy to wean us off Arabian oil and Russian gas. And thus diminish the venal and corrupt regimes it bankrolls. I'm fine with that. If it gets us active and giving a shit about future generations then that's a Good Thing. 

 

 

[SasaS]

2 hours ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

It is bizarre. Even if climate change was wrong surely cleaning the planet, preventing pollution and using technology to provide cleaner renewable energy sources that ultimately become cheaper in the long run would just be a better road to take anyway. 

But this is what most of the (western) world has been doing for the past decades.

Popular debate seems to constantly ignore the cost of changes versus actual impact on the climate and seems to be driven by people whose livelihood don't depend on that changes, have some kind of agenda or are just completely irresponsible. If everybody in the west follows the example of not holidaying abroad for instance, this would instantly destroy economies of a number of countries depending on tourism revenue, airline industry would be finished, a number of other industries seriously affected etc. This would probably cause a domino effect of economic crisis which will make the 2008 look like a walk in the park.

 

You already have huge rise in (mostly) right wing populist movements that are taking over country by country, if the world is plunged into chasing unrealistic or ineffective goals for the sake of doing something or we all die die die tomorrow, the planet would probably be destroyed much sooner that the climate change can do it.

[General Dryness]

3 hours ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

It is bizarre. Even if climate change was wrong surely cleaning the planet, preventing pollution and using technology to provide cleaner renewable energy sources that ultimately become cheaper in the long run would just be a better road to take anyway. 

You'd think so wouldn't you.

 

Earth has had 5 mass extinctions in it's time, so it would be silly to think there won't be any more. We should do what we can to delay it though. 

[s(k)aturation]

5 minutes ago, General Dryness said:

You'd think so wouldn't you.

 

Earth has had 5 mass extinctions in it's time, so it would be silly to think there won't be any more. We should do what we can to delay it though. 

 

I think the sooner humans are flushed away the better.

We've had our turn - we're shite - time for something else.

 

 

[General Dryness]

3 minutes ago, skaro said:

 

I think the sooner humans are flushed away the better.

We've had our turn - we're shite - time for something else.

 

 

I want it to at least be around long enough to give my lad a fair crack of the whip. And maybe his kids too.

 

After that it'll be too far down the line for me to give a fuck, so humanity can fuck off then.

[s(k)aturation]

Just now, General Dryness said:

3 minutes ago, General Dryness said:

I want it to at least be around long enough to give my lad a fair crack of the whip. And maybe his kids too.

 

After that it'll be too far down the line for me to give a fuck, so humanity can fuck off then.

 

 

QED... bring on whatever's next.

 

 

[Guest Pistonbroke]

I had the misfortune of bumping into my neighbour the other day whilst getting in my car. He really summed up why mankind is in a shit state and led by those with nothing more than self interest. He went off on one about that young girl trying to make a difference and started banging on about the fact she hasn't paid any taxes. When I pointed out the fact that was due to her age he just went off on one about despite paying taxes all his working life he'll have a shit retirement package, oblivious to the fact it had nothing to do with the subject at hand. 

[s(k)aturation]

4 minutes ago, Pistonbroke said:

I had the misfortune of bumping into my neighbour the other day whilst getting in my car. He really summed up why mankind is in a shit state and led by those with nothing more than self interest. He went off on one about that young girl trying to make a difference and started banging on about the fact she hasn't paid any taxes. When I pointed out the fact that was due to her age he just went off on one about despite paying taxes all his working life he'll have a shit retirement package, oblivious to the fact it had nothing to do with the subject at hand. 

 

 

She'll be a multi-millionaire - if she isn't already - so she'll have her chance to pay plenty of tax.