Muhammad Ali

[KMD7]

 

 

Maybe it was all to sell fights, came across this whilst looking for facing ali...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVgePPPPP-s

They were both cool as fuck in the 70's. I can imagine how exciting it was to be a boxing fan back then seeing this.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Maybe it was all to sell fights, came across this whilst looking for facing ali...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVgePPPPP-s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlB-NRQv3OY

"What's the point of insulting each other? The Garden is sold out, that's why!"

[s(k)aturation]

Back in the 90s, I saw When We Were Kings, a documentary about The Rumble in the Jungle, at the pictures. From memory, it was very good.

 

 

It was very very good.

 

Writer Norman Mailer also covered this fight in remarkable fashion.

[easytoslip]

If you're not, you should be.

 

Witty as fuck, rapping his way through pre-fight pressers. Compare that to any of the meathead gobshites of the last generation or so.

 

Not sure where you're getting "bully" from - plenty of people who knew him, including plenty who fought him, would put more emphasis on his warmth and generosity.

 

He was not "a great fighter". He really was The Greatest and deserved to be considered that on his fighting ability alone.

 

Add to that the fact that he single-handedly invented the "build-up as entertainment" that we are now actually a bit sick of (because there's nobody around to carry it off with such elan).

 

At a time when being the (not "a") Heavyweight Champion of the World basically made you the Best of the Best across all sports, white racists we're so irked at the idea of a black man holding the crown that it was normal to describe fighters as "the great white hope" - along comes the "uppitiest nigger" they'd ever seen; handsome, brilliant, quick-witted, stronger, faster and better than them in every conceivable way and - best of all - he knew it and wasn't afraid to say it. Anyone who upsets racists to that degree merely by being themselves is doing something right.

 

The morale boost he must have given everybody in the civil rights movement and the anti-war movement - controversial and unpopular causes at the time, but proven by history to be right - is just incalculable. The man who had reached the absolute pinnacle of world sport was prepared to give it up, because "no VietCong ever called me nigger". Again, I can't imagine any modern sportsman having the courage to do that.

 

Even the later years of his boxing career have a certain courage and nobility about them: the "twilight of a champion" who just refuses to accept defeat even against time itself.

 

People who knew him after he retired and after his illness slowed him down describe a man at peace with the world and with himself; no bitterness, despite all he'd been robbed of by his racist country or his Parkinson's, just the familiar kindness, warmth and generosity.

 

Some dickhead. I wish more people could be such "cunts".

Even though he was racist himself and against mix marriages etc, the bluebird goes with the bluebird and all that, not sure he said that while addressing the KKK, plus he was an arsehole to his wife and a complete twat to Frazier,but apart from that he was a very good boxer and good for the sport though not quite the first in showmanship as that would have to be Sugar Ray Robinson,if only they had the media coverage in the 50s. One of the greats yes

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Even though he was racist himself and against mix marriages etc, the bluebird goes with the bluebird and all that, not sure he said that while addressing the KKK, plus he was an arsehole to his wife and a complete twat to Frazier,but apart from that he was a very good boxer and good for the sport though not quite the first in showmanship as that would have to be Sugar Ray Robinson,if only they had the media coverage in the 50s. One of the greats yes

The "racist" stuff comes from his Nation of Islam days, doesn't it?  Didn't he renounce all that once he started practising "real" Islam?

[KMD7]

Yes. Think it was around 1975 that he became a Sunni Muslim.

[Mook]

People in the olden days were generally a lot more racist, sexist, homophobic & every other kind of 'ist', I think you need to put things into context when judging them. Plus people like Ali & Miles Davis were subject to so much racism that you can hardly blame them for coming out & calling white people a shower of cunts.

[Stickman]

They both seem genuinely happy to see each other here and when there were no more fights to sell .

 

From 1978

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePqJzi-wd1I

[lifetime fan]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/boxing/muhammad-alis-70th-birthday-hes-189042

[littletedwest]

https://youtu.be/rbwd7MoKiOc

I know I've posted this before but if you've not seen really worth watching

[easytoslip]

https://youtu.be/rbwd7MoKiOc

I know I've posted this before but if you've not seen really worth watching

Good that.

[Kevin D]

I watched What's my name?, which came out last year. Two part documentary, lasts about 3 hours. It's done entirely using archival footage, covering his amateur and professional career. Really good watch.

[Nunavut Patrick]

Ali- I ain’t got no quarrel with the Viet Cong

 

Jordan- Republicans by sneakers too

 

 

[Em City]

3 hours ago, Nunavut Patrick said:

Ali- I ain’t got no quarrel with the Viet Cong

 

Jordan- Republicans by sneakers too

 

 

 

I might buy that dichotomy if Ali didn't spend years racially abusing Joe Fraizer or advocating for racial segregation.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Em City said:

 

I might buy that dichotomy if Ali didn't spend years racially abusing Joe Fraizer or advocating for racial segregation.

Have you read any books on Ali? I remember reading a book written by his trainer. He said that Ali was called up either two or three times (I'm pretty sure it was two - been a while since I read it) and first time he was called up he failed the required IQ test. It was either on the second or third time (when they lowered the required IQ standard below his level as they were having to expand their selection pool) that he refused to serve.

[VladimirIlyich]

4 minutes ago, Em City said:

 

I might buy that dichotomy if Ali didn't spend years racially abusing Joe Fraizer or advocating for racial segregation.

The Frazier stuff was embarrassing and wrong. The racial segregation was influenced by the Nation of Islam's idea of self rule by the black community protecting themselves seeing as white US governments didnt give a shit. 

[Captain Howdy]

Just on the boxing the left hook he took from Frazier and then bounced back up after about three seconds is genuinely one of the most amazing things I’ve ever seen in sport, it defies belief. Ali had a chin made of Stone.

[Captain Howdy]

 

 

[VladimirIlyich]

1 hour ago, Captain Howdy said:

Just on the boxing the left hook he took from Frazier and then bounced back up after about three seconds is genuinely one of the most amazing things I’ve ever seen in sport, it defies belief. Ali had a chin made of Stone.

Unfortunately that 'chin of stone' was actually a blancmange in a bone casing which took years from his life and contributed to making his post boxing years far from a happy retirement.

[Bjornebye]

4 hours ago, VladimirIlyich said:

The Frazier stuff was embarrassing and wrong. The racial segregation was influenced by the Nation of Islam's idea of self rule by the black community protecting themselves seeing as white US governments didnt give a shit. 

I like you , I think you are one of the best posters on here but read that back. 

[Nunavut Patrick]

7 hours ago, Em City said:

 

I might buy that dichotomy if Ali didn't spend years racially abusing Joe Fraizer or advocating for racial segregation.

Thing is no one is perfect, and Ali in his early years has views that were racist.

 

Jordan had a chance as a cultural icon, the first world wide superstar with mega-endorsements and recognition, to come out and support a black senate candidate in his home state running against a proven and avowed racist (Jesse Helms). 
 

It will be interesting to see what black athletes in the NBA and NFL do as I don’t see police brutality against blacks going away and the President is a race baiter.

 

Also every NFL and NBA owner except maybe Shad Khan and Jordan (wouldn’t surprise me if he was actually GOP) are solid Trump supporters. 
 

(actually Khan have the trump campaign a huge donation so scratch him.)
 

 

[Guest Edwyn C]

I'm reading the book that i think the Netflix series was based on, called "Playing for keeps".

 

The author makes the point that it is usually only black superstars/athletes who are expected to be political. 

 

Messi, Ronaldo, Federer, Nadal, Charlton, Pele and many more i've forgot. They aren't judged on political beliefs. 

 

Watching the documentary i agree Jordan should have endorsed the Democrat against Helms. But in his mind all his energy was focused on basketball and he wasn't knowledgable on politics. 

 

I can't think of any white sporting superstar we judge on their politics. I'm probably wrong but i can't think of any. 

[Guest Edwyn C]

I know Pele is black. I put him in cos he's a football icon but not judged on politics.

 

Football, Tennis (apart from Arthur Ashe), British boxers, Rugby, Cricket, british athletics. 

 

I can't think of any athletes apart from mostly Black Americans who are expected to speak out on cultural issues/politics. 

[Kevin D]

11 hours ago, Em City said:

 

I might buy that dichotomy if Ali didn't spend years racially abusing Joe Fraizer or advocating for racial segregation.

 

You're not wrong at all.

 

However, I think Paul is right. There are no saints.

 

Ali is a guy who was a public figure the second he won his gold medal at 18 years old. He was working through how he thought about oppression, racism and tyranny, and doing all of these things in a public sphere. 

 

It's entirely predictable that he would have said stuff that he regrets while doing so. And he did regret it.

 

He has repeatedly walked back the black supremacist nation of Islam ideology generally and his comments to Joe specifically. Given how he went about his life in his last 30 years, arguing against Apartheid and for Palestinian independence, I take him at his word.

[VladimirIlyich]

10 hours ago, Bjornebye said:

I like you , I think you are one of the best posters on here but read that back. 

Sorry mate,did I word it wrong? What I was trying to say is that at the time the US Government(very few non whites within its members) was considered to not care about African American communities and treated those citizens like shite. I think some African American groups wanted to have segregation and those groups to self rule within those communities,maybe the Nation of Islam and or Malcolm X too? Muhammad Ali was greatly influenced by these groups for a time and maybe echoed these views in an interview or two. Any better?