Valencipool

[Rashid]

If we had got a right winger in the summer, Stevie would have played with Momo yesterday and we would have battered them as Hamann was very poor in the middle. This is going to a blessing in disguise, if we sign a top winger in January we will have addressed a huge problem mid season and it will give us a massive boost in a major position. Only a month to go lads...

[Hermes]

Playing Stevie on the right has been a major factor in this form - good on Rafa for making the change and Stevie for adapting so well.

 

He wasn't on the right yesterday, he was all over the pitch. He nearly scored by cutting in from the left wing. Best midfielder in the world by some distance in my opinion.

[Cardie]

Playing Stevie on the right has been a major factor in this form - good on Rafa for making the change and Stevie for adapting so well.

 

And supporters were calling for it to happen well before it did. Maybe people don't need a string of titles to have an oppinion.

[Zippy]

He wasn't on the right yesterday, he was all over the pitch. He nearly scored by cutting in from the left wing. Best midfielder in the world by some distance in my opinion.

 

Sorry Hermes I forgot how penantic some people are! I should have said provisionally on the right with licence to roam! ;)

[Paul]

It's all relative.

 

Very few of the players they have are good enough but they are playing for each other. We should still have far too much for them and should win especially at home.

Don't get me wrong, of course we should beat them. However, I don't think they're shite. Everton were in their position last season through luck and pragmatism; Wigan are up there through team work and talent.

[Paul]

He wasn't on the right yesterday, he was all over the pitch. He nearly scored by cutting in from the left wing. Best midfielder in the world by some distance in my opinion.

I haven't really got any points of comparison, but if there are any midfielders better than him, they must be pretty awesome.

 

Gerrard has a licence to roam; the right side of midfield is just his starting point, as well as where he needs to be when we're on the back foot. He couldn't play like this if he wasn't so fit, though. I'd leave him there all season, assuming Xabi, Didi and Big Mo are all fit.

[MLB]

I don't understand why people talk about "what Rafa wants" when it's totally unclear. At the start of the season it was argued that he wanted 4-5-1 with runners from midfield scoring the goals. Then that was going terribly (a few defeats with no chances created) so we give 4-4-2 a try and play Cisse up front now and again, and we score a few goals and the season starts to look better. So now the system is what? 4-4-2 with Crouch alongside a proper goalscorer and the midfield chipping in with 20+ goals a season? That's what a lot of people wanted before (well, without Crouch, but still.)

 

Anyway, I think that any away win against a team like City is a good sign, as they are always difficult to beat. I also think that the defense - Chelsea apart - has been absolutely brilliant this season, with special praise going to Finnan, Carra and Sami. (And Momo, actually.) But I still want to see much more from us, even with the players we have now. We can still pass the ball a lot better and we can still play at a higher tempo. We can still create more chances against lesser teams. And we'll only really know how much progress we are making if we can take this current form into a harder run of games against teams who are likely to be at the top end of the table come the end of the season.

[MLB]

And supporters were calling for it to happen well before it did. Maybe people don't need a string of titles to have an oppinion.

 

 

I argued that we should go mostly 4-4-2, that Gerrard should play on the right, and that Cisse's goals could help turn our season around; but then I don't honestly think that that was particularly clever or that it took any great insight. It was just common sense.

[Paul]

I don't understand why people talk about "what Rafa wants" when it's totally unclear. At the start of the season it was argued that he wanted 4-5-1 with runners from midfield scoring the goals. Then that was going terribly (a few defeats with no chances created) so we give 4-4-2 a try and play Cisse up front now and again, and we score a few goals and the season starts to look better. So now the system is what? 4-4-2 with Crouch alongside a proper goalscorer and the midfield chipping in with 20+ goals a season? That's what a lot of people wanted before (well, without Crouch, but still.)

I think what Rafa wants is less to do with formations than team work and basic tactics. He wants us to keep the ball in order to control the game whilst playing compactly as a team so we can turn defence into attack more easily. He also wants midfielders to contribute more in terms of our attacking play and sees Crouch as central to that plan. Under GH we defended very deeply and often gave the ball away, and there would often be huge gaps between midfield and attack. Rafa's tactics are the opposite of that, and seem to be compensating for a lack of pace in key players to boot.

 

I reckon we will see changes in formation when other players are here, but these basics will stay the same. None of it is rocket science, but it is becoming effective - especially defensively. The next step is to make us more fluent going forward and to score more goals. That will come with wide players who can beat their man, cross and score. We also need a replacement for Cisse who understands these basics and can apply them. Despite these deficiencies though, the foundations appear to be settling into place.

[MLB]

From what I've read about training under Rafa it seems that players are under detailed instruction about where to be on the pitch at any given time, and what to do both when they have possession and when they don't. That indicates to me that we will always be pretty solid defensively while he is manager as the team will be attacking and defending as a unit. The only problem I have with it is that it seems a bit rigid and robotic, and might be the reason why we've had more success in Europe than at home (where the game is more frenzied and less predictable.) If we're to move on to that next level and become a good attacking team then, in my opinion, we need a good goalscorer whose main focus is putting the ball in the back of the net (rather than staying in a set position, linking up play etc.) and at least one wide player who can do something out of the ordinary to create chances and score goals. Of course it will help a lot if they are tactically aware too, but for me that shouldn't be the first requirement.

 

So, anyway, some of the signs are definitely good, but I'm still looking to see a lot more from our creative and attacking play before I start hailing this as a glorious new era.

[Rashid]

MLB: We have a few individual players who have flair:

 

Gerrard, Kewell, Garcia, Alonso to name but 4.

 

Gerrard and Alonso can play within strict instructions and the other are largely allowed to roam freely, even in todays system under Rafa. What I feel we are missing are 2 more of such players, one up front who will score goals and be the main man and love the responsibility of scoring goals (Cisse apart) and one out wide that will allow Gerrard (the best CM in Europe) to play in his natural position.

 

I am certain we will get that in January and it wouldn't be fair to judge until the end of the season. Rafa had a team that contained Aimar - one of the ultimate free roamers, I am certain he likes that style of play.

[MLB]

I find it hard to reply to this because you've basically just re-worded what I wrote and then subtly accused me of judging Rafa in some way. You've also made up some nonsense about "flair" players that has little to do with my post.

[Rashid]

I find it hard to reply to this because you've basically just re-worded what I wrote and then subtly accused me of judging Rafa in some way. You've also made up some nonsense about "flair" players that has little to do with my post.

 

I don't think we are rigid, what I do think is that the players who are tasked with creating like Kewell (been out injured), Garcia (Goes missing in away league games), and the non existent right midfielder have not done been there to do what Rafa wants.

 

What I do think though is that we need more quality up front and out wide, which Rafa hasn't got (or doesn't rate in the case of Cisse) so its just a case of waiting to see who we sign.

[Paul]

From what I've read about training under Rafa it seems that players are under detailed instruction about where to be on the pitch at any given time, and what to do both when they have possession and when they don't. That indicates to me that we will always be pretty solid defensively while he is manager as the team will be attacking and defending as a unit. The only problem I have with it is that it seems a bit rigid and robotic, and might be the reason why we've had more success in Europe than at home (where the game is more frenzied and less predictable.) If we're to move on to that next level and become a good attacking team then, in my opinion, we need a good goalscorer whose main focus is putting the ball in the back of the net (rather than staying in a set position, linking up play etc.) and at least one wide player who can do something out of the ordinary to create chances and score goals. Of course it will help a lot if they are tactically aware too, but for me that shouldn't be the first requirement.

 

So, anyway, some of the signs are definitely good, but I'm still looking to see a lot more from our creative and attacking play before I start hailing this as a glorious new era.

I don't think anyone's hailing a glorious new era; rather I'm just pleased that we're stringing some results together, and that I can see some method in what had appeared to be Rafa's madness. I'm well aware we've only beaten teams we're expected to beat, but then that's been our problem ever since we last won the title - with the exception of GH's 80 point season. There are still clear grounds for optimism, though.

[Rashid]

I don't see how being European Champions can't be a glorious era, but in order for that to continue we have to make changes and I think we all know that.

[Paul]

I don't see how being European Champions can't be a glorious era, but in order for that to continue we have to make changes and I think we all know that.

Very true; I was thinking in terms of league football, though - as was MLB, I think.

[Red Nick]

TRUST IN RAFA

 

ALL WILL BE REVEALED COME MAY

[Red Nick]

As stuart pearce said yesterday we were playing the European Champions and it is easily forgotten isnt it?

 

NP is right and you can see players like sami Hypia who criticised Rafa around the league cup final last year are so much happier now they understand the system (the defensive one) and he's looking like the defender of the treble season all over again.

 

It will be very interesting to see what happens when the CB arrives in Jan

[MLB]

Very true; I was thinking in terms of league football, though - as was MLB, I think.

 

 

Yeah. Obviously winning the CL should be the beginning of something, but I think everyone agrees that we need to do much better in the league if we're to build on that success. You can't afford to rest on yer laurels for one second if you're to get to the top and stay there.

[Hermes]

The only problem I have with it is that it seems a bit rigid and robotic, and might be the reason why we've had more success in Europe than at home (where the game is more frenzied and less predictable.) If we're to move on to that next level and become a good attacking team then, in my opinion, we need a good goalscorer whose main focus is putting the ball in the back of the net (rather than staying in a set position, linking up play etc.) and at least one wide player who can do something out of the ordinary to create chances and score goals.

 

Agreed. At the moment we are mostly grinding out results, especially away from home. Watching Man U this afternoon showed how far we still have to go to challenge the 3 best teams in the Premiership. Our present team isn't capable of taking teams apart away from home like that. When we are, then we can talk about challenging for the Premiership.

[Spy Bee]

Conversely though united were awful against Villareal and it made me think how much of a better side we are in Europe than they are. We are on a par with United domestically in my opinion and a better team in Europe. I'll actually be suprised if we don't finish above them.

[MLB]

I'd be surprised if we finished above them because they use the ball better than us and can rely on Van Nistelrooy for goals. A lot will depend on who we sign in January, though.

[Red Nick]

Both Utd and Arsenal have the abillity to take teams apart but also have the abillity to lose to good sides (not great sides) wheras Liverpool look more like a chelsea ie Solid but not spectacular hence why we are excellent in Europe but sometimes struggle to break teams down in the PL,

 

I believe were getting more like chelsea ie winning games with a little bit of quality but mainly down to our excellent defence, effective but its not like watching Arsenal play. The thing about manu there probably playing near to there best wheras there's a lot more improvement to come from us.

 

our next 4 Prem fixtures are all winnable and that would give us 8 on the bounce if we won them, the laws of averages says we'll come a cropper before then.

 

Things are looking very good and i expect us to finish above Arsenal but Manu is a much closer call

[BatChainPuller]

I'd be surprised if we finished above them because they use the ball better than us and can rely on Van Nistelrooy for goals. A lot will depend on who we sign in January, though.

 

We're developing well though and quite a few players are starting to hit form - I reckon Alonso/Gerrard/Sissoko/Didi(p/t) will be the midfield that uses the ball as well as anyone. Its all starting to gel at last - Gerrard on the right deffo works and gives Xabi full rein to do his magic with Momo forming a one man circle round him.

 

Kewell looks like he might finally come good, Garcia can be dynamite as Slovakia or whoever it was found out. Zenden was starting to perform but will frsher for the later stages when he is back.

 

Crouch/Cisse/Moro will score goals - not as consistently as we want yet one of them has to hit a decent run of form by mathematical probability alone.

 

Should be said that Gerrard is really starting to look like a leader whilst playing consistently great football. Thank fuck he stayed - he is a joy to watch and as others have said is at least in the top 5 midfielders in Europe at the mo. He seems to be playing with a sort of steely determination just radiates energy and aggresion. Who else would you rather have if you had all the american cream-cheese money ??

[Spanish_fan]

The thing about manu there probably playing near to there best wheras there's a lot more improvement to come from us.

 

 

When Benitez builds a side with more technical ability and more pace down the flanks Liverpool are going to be an extremely difficult side to beat...by anyone on a consistent basis.

 

The structure of the defense looks even better than Chelsea's with that off side trap preventing teams from getting anywhere near the box whereas Chelsea rely much more on blocks and people defending in numbers inside the box. Alas Chelseas' players ability on the ball is much higher than that of Liverpool's (back four and wide players)