Subject: Jamie Bulger

[Red Soul]

What about the parents of James Bulger?

 

I've read some of the interviews his father has conducted and it's incredibly upsetting. I think they have been very much shit on by many people or rather the justice system

 

This is such an incredibly unique case that nobody has all the answers.How could two children of that age do such a thing?.If...they werent in that place at that time would they have eventually done it to another child?.I doubt it personally.One thing is for sure,they will live with it for the rest of their lives.I think this makes them a potential danger when released.

[Antynwa]

This is such an incredibly unique case that nobody has all the answers.How could two children of that age do such a thing?.If...they werent in that place at that time would they have eventually done it to another child?.I doubt it personally.One thing is for sure,they will live with it for the rest of their lives.I think this makes them a potential danger when released.

 

Make no mistake, they weren't born evil and I agree with much of what you are saying.

 

In the rush to attempt to understand the reasoning behind why they did this, you have two parents whose lives had been completely decimated.

 

I can't imagine what they must be going through now.

[Pony Princess]

They were always gonna be released one day. Given the crimes they did, and spending their developmental years in prison, their life outside even under cover is going to be pretty pathetic.

 

The Daily Mail will probably come up with some shit about Venables being put into a lovely house with a big tv and and a cushy job but that will be bullshit. Venables has had most of his education in a prison and he is most likely to be working a carwash and fearing being exposed and killed.

 

Three families destroyed and as usual all got slaughtered by the media for being scouse plebs like us.

[gmac]

'It was an unprecedented situation at the beginning. Two children responsible for the most heinous of crimes. Most would agree they should have served time in a prison when they became of age. But ‘do gooders’ had their way and it became a study in rehabilitation with fuck all thought for the real victims.

 

Now it seems the success of their ‘rehabilitation’ has become the be all and end all. In effect they’ve become shielded so much that 'minor misdemeanours' won’t matter, they must feel they’re above the law.

[Red Soul]

They were always gonna be released one day. Given the crimes they did, and spending their developmental years in prison, their life outside even under cover is going to be pretty pathetic.

 

The Daily Mail will probably come up with some shit about Venables being put into a lovely house with a big tv and and a cushy job but that will be bullshit. Venables has had most of his education in a prison and he is most likely to be working a carwash and fearing being exposed and killed.

 

Three families destroyed and as usual all got slaughtered by the media for being scouse plebs like us.

 

What would be the right thing to do though?. I cant think of anything else.

What were the alternatives?.To be relocated with their families and visited by social workers?.

[Strontium]

The right thing to do would have been unacceptable to us as a society.

 

I remember that similar case somewhere in Scandinavia, I think, where the killers served no jailtime, but were rehabilitated in their community. Something like that is never going to happen here because Britain is jampacked to the cunting rafters with reactionary fucksticks. I hate this fucking country.

[gmac]

The right thing to do would have been unacceptable to us as a society.

 

I remember that similar case somewhere in Scandinavia, I think, where the killers served no jailtime, but were rehabilitated in their community. Something like that is never going to happen here because Britain is jampacked to the cunting rafters with reactionary fucksticks. I hate this fucking country.

 

I feel sorry for the Bulgers Stronts, in your world where do their rights exist.

[Tom R]

The right thing to do would have been unacceptable to us as a society.

 

I remember that similar case somewhere in Scandinavia' date=' I think, where the killers served no jailtime, but were rehabilitated in their community. Something like that is never going to happen here because Britain is jampacked to the cunting rafters with reactionary fucksticks. I hate this fucking country.[/quote']

 

We don't often see eye to eye, but you really couldn't be any more right.

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

Just reading the Echo online and Steve Brookstein having his say, why I don't know. Anyway he is entitled to his opinion.

Some absolute cunt on the letters page taking the piss out of the baby saying he was a woolyback anyway and not even a scouser, beggars belief, fucking wum Manc probably.

I'm not even savvy enough to post a link but I know some on here like a bit of online investigative journalism so maybe Mr Liam Cosgrave deserves a look.

[loadsoftrophies]

I remember when this happened but i didn't really know how serious it was as i was 16 at the time. I've read the case and i really regret doing that now. I have a 19 month old boy now so it's easy to think of what James would be like. It's stuck in my head of what they done to that little boy, it's easily the saddest thing i've ever read.

Obviously there's something wrong here, this is one of the most extreme crimes in history and personally i can't see how you can put it down to a childs upbringing or society on why those two boys tortured James. Jamess' Dad recently came out and said that the public don't know the full account of the torture they performed on the little boy. What we do know is horrible so i dread to think what they also done.

There's kids all over the land with the most horrible upbringings who then go onto commit serious crimes but what these boys done is beyond that, the only way i can explain it is there's something actually wrong inside the brain, a chemical imbalance or something like that.

Venables seems to be where the problem is, he was the one where the cops and lawyers said he showed no remorse whatsoever. I can't see how rehabilitation can work on cases like this, you can try it as it's such a bizzarre case but in the end we have a human where there's something not working correctly in the head. Now that he's been released after having images of Child Porn i just can't see him living a quiet life, there's been talk of him constantly in trouble so someone like him should be put away before he does something again.

I try to have an open mind as possible, when someone calls a Dad a horrible bastard for killing his kids i tend to think as the Dad as a victim as well, as to kill anyone especially a Kid then there's something that's not working anymore in the brain, something has broken it. It's the same with these lads, something is not right about them and by the sounds of it still isn't with Venables.

I can't see how you can compare this case with the Scandinavia one either as this killing was planned and it lasted for hours, there is a seriously nasty side to this one.

Oh and of course the Media have a lot to answer for a well but then again when do they not.

Whoever put that tag at the bottom is a fucking shithouse as well, no need.

[Stu Monty]

I remember when this happened but i didn't really know how serious it was as i was 16 at the time. I've read the case and i really regret doing that now. I have a 19 month old boy now so it's easy to think of what James would be like. It's stuck in my head of what they done to that little boy, it's easily the saddest thing i've ever read.

Obviously there's something wrong here, this is one of the most extreme crimes in history and personally i can't see how you can put it down to a childs upbringing or society on why those two boys tortured James. Jamess' Dad recently came out and said that the public don't know the full account of the torture they performed on the little boy. What we do know is horrible so i dread to think what they also done.

There's kids all over the land with the most horrible upbringings who then go onto commit serious crimes but what these boys done is beyond that, the only way i can explain it is there's something actually wrong inside the brain, a chemical imbalance or something like that.

Venables seems to be where the problem is, he was the one where the cops and lawyers said he showed no remorse whatsoever. I can't see how rehabilitation can work on cases like this, you can try it as it's such a bizzarre case but in the end we have a human where there's something not working correctly in the head. Now that he's been released after having images of Child Porn i just can't see him living a quiet life, there's been talk of him constantly in trouble so someone like him should be put away before he does something again.

I try to have an open mind as possible, when someone calls a Dad a horrible bastard for killing his kids i tend to think as the Dad as a victim as well, as to kill anyone especially a Kid then there's something that's not working anymore in the brain, something has broken it. It's the same with these lads, something is not right about them and by the sounds of it still isn't with Venables.

I can't see how you can compare this case with the Scandinavia one either as this killing was planned and it lasted for hours, there is a seriously nasty side to this one.

Oh and of course the Media have a lot to answer for a well but then again when do they not.

Whoever put that tag at the bottom is a fucking shithouse as well, no need.

 

It's been proven that the way children are treated as they grow up effects the development of the brain. Specifically the they can often not develop the areas of the brain that deal with empathy.

 

So point two was correct and point one was miles from being correct.

 

They were both victims too.

 

Give me your next newborn and I'll completely mistreat him and turn him into a psychopath by the age of ten. We can all then watch him do terrible things and say he was "born evil".

[Pony Princess]

What would be the right thing to do though?. I cant think of anything else.

What were the alternatives?.To be relocated with their families and visited by social workers?.

 

The right thing to do? I am not arguing that they should never have gone to prison. They of course deserved prison.

 

The right thing to do now I feel, is if one of them is ready to be released because the parole feel they are ready to become decent members of society then they should be released. And they should be released secretly. I imagine it is something in our laws that the parents of the victims need to be informed but this isn't an ordinary case. It is almost a sick joke. "We're going to release him, but we can't tell you who he is *now* and we are not going to tell you why we think he is eligible for release either".

 

But they (the parole service or probation or whoever) have already shown that he is being watched when he is out, hence him getting his sorry arse thrown back straight inside when he got nicked downloading kiddy porn.

 

Rock <-> hard place for the authorities. You can't keep them locked up forever, Venebles has done 20 years already - but there isn't going to be day when many, especially not Jamie's family, are gonna say 'they've served enough time, we're moving on'.

 

I'm not saying they should - I'm saying: what exactly are the authorities supposed to do with someone who is ready to be released but is one of the most hated people in the country?

 

On a lighter note though, wasn't it reported one of them has gender-issues and is pretty much a cross-dresser? 20 years of having your prag arse reemed from the age of 10 in prison will do that to you.

[loadsoftrophies]

It's been proven that the way children are treated as they grow up effects the development of the brain. Specifically the they can often not develop the areas of the brain that deal with empathy.

 

So point two was correct and point one was miles from being correct.

 

They were both victims too.

 

Give me your next newborn and I'll completely mistreat him and turn him into a psychopath by the age of ten. We can all then watch him do terrible things and say he was "born evil".

 

While i agree with you on the upbringing of a kid, this case goes beyond that. How is this kids bad upbringing different than so many other kids bad upbringing. Is there just a chance that he was born with an imbalance of the brain from birth.

I can't get my head around how they done what the done to James knowing that it was wrong. As i said there's thousands of kids probably with worse upbringings yet don't do this. It's completley abnormal what they done.

[Captain]

I'm not saying they should - I'm saying: what exactly are the authorities supposed to do with someone who is ready to be released but is one of the most hated people in the country?

 

They should keep them locked up forever if they're deemed not safe to be released.

[Pony Princess]

They should keep them locked up forever if they're deemed not safe to be released.

 

You must be one of these 'mongs' we hear about so much these days.

 

I clearly said in my post:

 

"The right thing to do now I feel, is if one of them is ready to be released because the parole feel they are ready to become decent members of society then they should be released."

 

I don't disagree with what you have posted but when you selectively quote a section of my posts out of context, please don't.

[Stu Monty]

While i agree with you on the upbringing of a kid, this case goes beyond that. How is this kids bad upbringing different than so many other kids bad upbringing. Is there just a chance that he was born with an imbalance of the brain from birth.

I can't get my head around how they done what the done to James knowing that it was wrong. As i said there's thousands of kids probably with worse upbringings yet don't do this. It's completley abnormal what they done.

 

It's not about knowing it was wrong, it's about having no empathy for him as a person.

 

I reckon if I had the exact same upbringing as those kids I'd probably be the same as them. I think people like to kid themselves and say they wouldn't but I'm of the opinion that's not true. We like to think we make us what we are, and not that others are the major formative influences on us, ties into having free will if you ask me.

 

Turn your "imbalance in the brain" thing around. Even if they did, do you think if you'd adopted them at birth they'd have done that? No.

[Anny Road]

I think you are wrong here Stu.

No doubt their upbringing was shit and has had a major influence upon their actions. This can in certain circumstances I agree lead to terrible acts such as this.

However they had not been completely removed form society and had been subject to schooling and all the other influences children get. Events such as this are possible with lone disturbed people but to get two together is hugely rare.

 

They new what they were doing was wrong. They may not have fully comprehended the consequences of the action but they new it was bad and they enjoyed it. You cannot 'cure' that. They are beyond help or sympathy.

[loadsoftrophies]

I agree with what you're saying Stu but not in this instance. I agree 100% that a bad upbringing is the major influence on kids turning to crime but in this instance is has to be more than that, something seriously went wrong along the way or at birth. Its a completely standalone case and I've never heard anything like it.

The upbringing they got certainty didn't help the matter but the nature of the crime is so extreme, how hasn't this been repeated, why are these kids so different? I can only put it down to a freak of nature and circircumstances not helping. No kid at 10 no matter how bad an upbringing does this, it was the planing and thought gone into it and the fact it went on for hours. If it was a spur of the moment thing like the 2 boys in Scandinavia you could explain it but this was so callous its frightening.

I don't know anything about the upbringing of the two boys, can anyone shed any light on that?

[Captain]

You must be one of these 'mongs' we hear about so much these days.

 

I clearly said in my post:

 

"The right thing to do now I feel, is if one of them is ready to be released because the parole feel they are ready to become decent members of society then they should be released."

 

I don't disagree with what you have posted but when you selectively quote a section of my posts out of context, please don't.

 

You asked a question, I answered it. You say they can't be kept locked up forever, I disagree. Some people are so fucked up you can't risk having them roaming around.

[Pony Princess]

You asked a question, I answered it. You say they can't be kept locked up forever, I disagree. Some people are so fucked up you can't risk having them roaming around.

 

Apologies for calling you a mong, I'd had a few. I think half the problem with this whole case is there is no transparency. The parole service are not allowed to say why or why not someone is getting/not getting parole.

 

They could possibly be as sadistic as they were when they did what they did, or they could be totally different people but we will never know as they won't reveal how they came to the decision to release them and that is why there is such butthurt when they are released. My thinking is when they are ready to be released, just release them and don't announce it because it just upsets everyone. Like I said earlier, it is a sick joke that they have to announce they have been released, but they are not allowed to say any more than that.

 

* just to add, I don't know if they *should* be released, I'm just trying to think about it logically. If they were killed tomorrow or locked up 'til they are dead I really couldn't give less of a fuck. I doubt they have anything to contribute to society and from what it sounds like, had they not killed James Bulger they would have grown up to be disgusting degenerates anyway given their upbringing and priors.

[Stu Monty]

I think you are wrong here Stu.

No doubt their upbringing was shit and has had a major influence upon their actions. This can in certain circumstances I agree lead to terrible acts such as this.

However they had not been completely removed form society and had been subject to schooling and all the other influences children get. Events such as this are possible with lone disturbed people but to get two together is hugely rare.

 

They new what they were doing was wrong. They may not have fully comprehended the consequences of the action but they new it was bad and they enjoyed it. You cannot 'cure' that. They are beyond help or sympathy.

 

I'm not saying you can cure it Anny, I'm just saying what's most likely to have caused it.

 

If you or I had looked after those kids from birth they wouldn't have done it. If you'd have been in the care of their parents as a boy the chances of you being the same are pretty large.

 

People don't seem to get that the way you are treated as a child alters the development of your brain, and I mean that actual physical development of it, bits grow and don't grow dependant on other factors.

 

Don't really see much in the two people factor. You only really need one that leads and another that's weaker and tied themselves to the second for too long for it to happen.

 

People like to just tar the kids as "freaks" that were born evil as we don't like the implications of the fact that us turning out good or bad is mostly down to other people.

[Stickman]

Just wondering why the Bulger killers were named and yet these pair of evil fuckers weren't?

I know there are arguments for and against but anyone who can plan something so premeditated and evil and hopefully will never be released then surely their names should be made public if only for the victims families as well?

 

Two 15-year-olds get life for murders of mother and daughter

 

Two 15-year-olds have been given life sentences with 20-year minimum terms for the murder of a mother and daughter in Lincolnshire in April.

 

Dinner lady Elizabeth Edwards, 49, and Katie, 13, were smothered and stabbed while they slept at home in Spalding.

 

Sentencing them, the judge said it was "a terrible crime which has few parallels in modern criminal history".

The killers were 14 at the time, apparently making them Britain's youngest double-murderers.

The judge at Nottingham Crown Court, Mr Justice Haddon-Cave, said the case had "defining and particularly chilling" features, and condemned the killers' conduct as "grotesque".

 

Jurors heard that the killers went on to share a bath, have sex, and watch four Twilight vampire films after the murders in Dawson Avenue, Spalding, on 13 April.

 

Addressing the teenagers, the judge told them: "There is a clear intention to kill both victims - both defendants admitted wanting to murder them.

 

"There was remarkable premeditation and planning - it was, on any view, substantial, meticulous and repeated."

He added: "The killings were brutal in the form of executions, and both victims, particularly Elizabeth Edwards, must have suffered terribly in the last minutes of their lives."

Mrs Edwards and her daughter were repeatedly stabbed by the couple, who were described in court as having a Bonnie and Clyde-style relationship

Mrs Edwards was stabbed by the boy eight times, twice in the throat, in a deliberate attempt to ensure her daughter was not woken by screams or cries for help.

Katie was stabbed twice in the neck with severe force before she was smothered by the boy.

 

Det Ch Insp Martin Holvey, of Lincolnshire Police, said it had been "a rare and unprecedented case".

"The planning that went into these brutal murders of Elizabeth and Katie, as they slept in their own beds, was cold, ruthless and chilling - as was the lack of remorse shown by the two juveniles afterwards."

In court Peter Joyce QC, prosecuting, detailed for the first time the account given by the boy shortly after he was arrested.

He said the pair had met up and both agreed to kill Mrs Edwards and her daughter after "the girl had asked him to kill both of the victims as she did not like the smell of blood".

"He went on to describe the killing of the mother, Elizabeth, and said that during the attack she had struggled and scratched his face, back and bum," Mr Joyce told the court.

"After about three minutes she had stopped struggling and had gone limp. He had got off the bed and taken off his trainers since they had made the floorboards creak."

The boy then went into Katie's room, bent down and pushed the knife through her throat before using a pillow to smother her, the court heard.

Defending the boy, Simon Myerson QC said the two children "became trapped in a fantasy of their own devising".

Andrew Stubbs QC, representing the girl, said the pair were in a "toxic relationship" and were "almost playing chicken with each other" as they spurred each other on to commit the killings.

The pair pleaded guilty to manslaughter at a hearing in September but later the boy admitted to murder before the trial began. His girlfriend maintained her innocence to murder but was found guilty of two counts.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-37941236

 

 

[Lee909]

How the fuck can you be a lawyer for people like them. And actually make reasons and arguments in their favour

[Ezekiel 25:17]

I tell you what I hate, the term Child Porn, surely there's no such fucking thing, it's indecent images or whatever.

[PestiRed]

How the fuck can you be a lawyer for people like them. And actually make reasons and arguments in their favour

To be fair, those statements from the Defence lawyers don't sound like they were really trying very hard