Israel - A Rant

[Bjornebye]

Sickening one sided warped load of codswallop. Israel is continuing to annex Palestinian settlements. You said it’s for unpaid rent when you know full well that is an absolute lie. 
 

You also said that this isn’t also happening within Israeli territory, when I presented the evidence that is is you completely ignored it. 
 

Your defence of children being murdered is beyond the pale and isn’t far off the tears on Twitter saying “light them up” as bombs rain down on civilian quarters of Gaza. 
 

Of course it goes both ways, Hamas shouldn’t be firing rockets into Israel even in retaliation. The civilians caught up in this are the ones suffering. 

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

4 hours ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

Please read what I wrote. I didn't say that it didn't go back further, but hostility against the modern state of Israel only goes back to the beginning of the modern state of Israel. Clearly before then you had Jews going home, or trying to, given that the British stopped most of them, and the revolt and acts of violence against Jews by local Arab populations which prompted the partition of the British mandate in the first place.

 

I'm aware that some Arabs believe they are entitled to the entirety of Mandatory Palestine. I think it probably does matter whether this claim has any merit. Obviously we know who are the true aborigines of that region; how Hadrian changed the name from Judea to Palestine as punishment for Jewish rebellion against Roman rule; how the region was subsequently conquered by Muslim Arabs in the 7th century, who built the al-Aqsa mosque on top of the site of the old Jewish temple as a further act of erasure.

 

But there are competing claims on the land, regardless of whose may be the strongest, so the only way forward is one which can accommodate both parties, and so it is unfortunate that one side has repeatedly refused to come to an agreement with the other.

 

Lastly, just to note the irony of blerts like 3 Stacks, who lives in a country which stole a virtual continent from the natives who lived there and "generously" returned about 2% of it to them. When America returns America to the Native Americans is when people will listen to anything he has to say about Judea and Samaria.

 

[Moctezuma]

Are they "mowing the lawn" again? I would assume this has nothing to do with Netanyahu and the upcoming election and his active attempts to avoid prosecution for his numerous corrupt endeavors.

[No2]

8 hours ago, Gnasher said:

Just pray they're bluffing,

 

 

Have you considered how dangerous it would to be bulldozer a building of that size?

[Rico1304]

@Strontium Dog™ have you read ‘Jews Don’t Count’ by Baddiel? It’s very good. 

[Gnasher]

32 minutes ago, No2 said:

Have you considered how dangerous it would to be bulldozer a building of that size?

Fred Dibnahs fairly safe, he'd have that down before the scud.

[Razoray]

5 hours ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

Please read what I wrote. I didn't say that it didn't go back further, but hostility against the modern state of Israel only goes back to the beginning of the modern state of Israel. Clearly before then you had Jews going home, or trying to, given that the British stopped most of them, and the revolt and acts of violence against Jews by local Arab populations which prompted the partition of the British mandate in the first place.

 

I'm aware that some Arabs believe they are entitled to the entirety of Mandatory Palestine. I think it probably does matter whether this claim has any merit. Obviously we know who are the true aborigines of that region; how Hadrian changed the name from Judea to Palestine as punishment for Jewish rebellion against Roman rule; how the region was subsequently conquered by Muslim Arabs in the 7th century, who built the al-Aqsa mosque on top of the site of the old Jewish temple as a further act of erasure.

 

But there are competing claims on the land, regardless of whose may be the strongest, so the only way forward is one which can accommodate both parties, and so it is unfortunate that one side has repeatedly refused to come to an agreement with the other.

 

Lastly, just to note the irony of blerts like 3 Stacks, who lives in a country which stole a virtual continent from the natives who lived there and "generously" returned about 2% of it to them. When America returns America to the Native Americans is when people will listen to anything he has to say about Judea and Samaria.

Of course hostility of the modern state of Israel only started when most of the people that had lived there were displaced from their homes to create the state. 

The closest comparison I can make is if a large portion of the USA was given to Native Americans tomorrow and 80% of Americans were made homeless and refugees.

Would you expect hostilities?

Do you think in that situation that anyone would say ever that the hostilities started tomorrow?

If the Native Americans were forcing the remaining 20% from their homes over the next 70 years and further annexing the land, of course there would be hostilities.

Do you not understand that there are people that have lived in the region for generations and are now being treated like dirt for something that happened hundreds of years ago? 

Jews have had a difficult time for thousands of years at the hands of many but they now have the power and are abusing that power. 

 

"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power" - Lincoln. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

Just now, Razoray said:

Would you expect hostilities?

Pretty sure the Texans and Alabamans would be fine with it.

 

[Numero Veinticinco]

It's David vs Goliath's bigger, stronger, more violent cousin. David has sticks, stones, explosive strapped to themselves, and homemade rockets - many of which would be classified as large fireworks - and Goliath has hundreds of F16, F15, F35, armed with JDAMs and other precision laser guided munitions, a thousand 155mm Howitzer artillery weapons, a thousand main battle tanks, intercontinental ballistic missiles with nuclear warheads, it is beneath an iron dome, and has some of the best trained soldiers you'll find anywhere. Even if you believe in an eye for an eye, this isn't that. Israel has a right to defend itself, it can even make moral case that it has the right to strike back, but it should do so in a proportional manner like the nuclear armed superpower that it is. 

 

The ratio of civilians to Hamas combatants, and the ratio of children to civilians, would be fucking unspeakable to those hand-waving them away as 'self defence' if it was another nation. It isn't self defence, it's bloody violent, blood curdling retribution. If you defend this, or take the statements from the department of propaganda in Israel as the whole truth without evidence, then there is very little left of your integrity on this subject. Every civilian, Israeli or Palestinian, is tragic and that's especially true when it's children, but to hear some on here/twitter/elsewhere talk the way they do is actually spine chilling. Then, when you pick them up on it, they throw their hands up and begrudgingly admit that civilians deaths are bad whilst countering on about it being in self defence. It's pretty grim stuff. Israel are just fine, they're under very little threat from anyone they can't beat the flying fuck out of - and even if they weren't, they've got the most well funded, well armed superpowers in the history of the world standing right behind them. 

[Gnasher]

1 hour ago, Rico1304 said:

@Strontium Dog™ have you read ‘Jews Don’t Count’ by Baddiel? It’s very good. 

 

Entitled rich fella writes book complaining Jewish people are not given the same attention as other minoritys such as blacks and asians when faced with discrimination, moans about Jews having no voice and blames media for not listening to them.

 

Israeli Jews and Palestinians are close to all out war, already with civilian casualties on both sides including children.

 

Baddiel takes to twitter to talk about his cat.

 

 

 

What about his cat indeed? It's the burning issue

 

 

[Anubis]

Is it appropriate to point out that the cat enjoys a better existence than most Palestinians?

[Bjornebye]

Is that why he blacked up? For attention? 

 

It very much is a case of "How dare you condemn Israel/The IDF it's an attack on jews you anti-semite!" Well actually no it's condemning the de-homing, dehumanising and outright murder of innocent civilians. Plenty within the jewish community (Rabbis included) condemn it. Are they anti-semitic? No. 

 

 

[Gnasher]

It seems plenty of people do have a voice. Various people getting an awful lot of shit and threats on social media for simply showing concern towards the situation in Jerusalem and Gaza.

 

Greta Thunberg taking absolute dogs abuse, Warsi similar, plenty of others the same. Social media and Twitter at its worst. 

 

[Rico1304]

20 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Is that why he blacked up? For attention? 

 

It very much is a case of "How dare you condemn Israel/The IDF it's an attack on jews you anti-semite!" Well actually no it's condemning the de-homing, dehumanising and outright murder of innocent civilians. Plenty within the jewish community (Rabbis included) condemn it. Are they anti-semitic? No. 

 

 

You should read it.  

[Numero Veinticinco]

Just now, Rico1304 said:

You should read it.  

I've read it. What now?

[Bjornebye]

4 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

You should read it.  

I read enough hypocrisy on social media mate.  

[Rico1304]

3 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

I read enough hypocrisy on social media mate.  

Fair enough.  
 

But asking DB about Israel, or berating him about it when he has zero connection or interest in it over and above any other conflict zone in the world is strange.  

[Numero Veinticinco]

As is bringing up a book about Jews in this thread at this time. Still, life goes on. For some.

[Gnasher]

5 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Fair enough.  
 

But asking DB about Israel, or berating him about it when he has zero connection or interest in it over and above any other conflict zone in the world is strange.  

Maybe the real reason DB says he has zero connection with it is he feels it may show him in a bad light? Make him make and express judgements? Make him have to voice an opinion? 

 

In short it's convenient for Baddiel to ignore Israel and the events surrounding Israel, he's got a public persona to nurture and protect.

[TheHowieLama]

 

 

 

Three internet points for those that can identify the beginning of the Modern State of Israel.

[Strontium]

1 hour ago, TheHowieLama said:

 

 

 

Three internet points for those that can identify the beginning of the Modern State of Israel.

 

I think these are a bit misleading, aren't they? 1917 refers to Jewish settlements and "Palestinian land", but this is not the case; the entire area was Palestine, the western portion of the British Mandate, and everyone who lived there, Jew and Arab alike, was considered Palestinian. An honest 1917 map would show Jewish settlements and Arab settlements rather than arbitrarily assigning any area not occupied by Jews, the majority of which was empty land where nobody lived, to a Palestinian entity that didn't exist.

 

The 1967 map probably should make clear that these are armistice lines, not borders, and that Gaza and the West Bank are being occupied by Egypt and Jordan respectively.

 

Nevertheless, it's good that history began in 1917 and we can ignore anything from before then, because it means we don't need to bother ourselves with things like this:

 

 

Three internet points to anyone who can identify whose land Howie and 3 Stacks are living on...

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

[Bjornebye]

3 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

I think these are a bit misleading, aren't they? 1917 refers to Jewish settlements and "Palestinian land", but this is not the case; the entire area was Palestine, the western portion of the British Mandate, and everyone who lived there, Jew and Arab alike, was considered Palestinian. An honest 1917 map would show Jewish settlements and Arab settlements rather than arbitrarily assigning any area not occupied by Jews, the majority of which was empty land where nobody lived, to a Palestinian entity that didn't exist.

 

The 1967 map probably should make clear that these are armistice lines, not borders, and that Gaza and the West Bank are being occupied by Egypt and Jordan respectively.

 

Nevertheless, it's good that history began in 1917 and we can ignore anything from before then, because it means we don't need to bother ourselves with things like this:

 

 

Three internet points to anyone who can identify whose land Howie and 3 Stacks are living on...

Yeah the Americans dropping bombs on Indian American kids this week and for the past 16 odd years has been disgraceful. 

 

 

 

 

Nice try though. 

[TheHowieLama]

Let's play another round of "WhatAbout!!"

[Strontium]

4 hours ago, Rico1304 said:

@Strontium Dog™ have you read ‘Jews Don’t Count’ by Baddiel? It’s very good. 

 

It's on a list of things I need to read. Something tells me this thread supports a number of hypotheses within it.

 

3 hours ago, Numero said:

Israel has a right to defend itself, it can even make moral case that it has the right to strike back, but it should do so in a proportional manner like the nuclear armed superpower that it is. 

 

The ratio of civilians to Hamas combatants, and the ratio of children to civilians, would be fucking unspeakable to those hand-waving them away as 'self defence' if it was another nation.

 

Well, an acknowledgement that Israel has a right (some would say a duty) to defend its citizens is certainly a welcome addition to proceedings here. Honest question: how do you propose it does that without killing Hamas rocketeers? Harsh language? A polite letter?

 

I've not seen a ratio of civilian deaths to combatant deaths for this conflict. Do we have figures for both sides yet?