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Israel - A Rant

Rashid

By Rashid,
in GF - General Forum

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Section_31
Section_31

You wait for one picture of a bus stop to come along and then three come along at the same time.

Biscao
Biscao

Hopefully there won’t be much left of Gaza in a few weeks time.

Numero Veinticinco
Numero Veinticinco

It's David vs Goliath's bigger, stronger, more violent cousin. David has sticks, stones, explosive strapped to themselves, and homemade rockets - many of which would be classified as large fireworks -

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stringvest Grand Master

stringvest

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What does the term mean now then, in your opinion? Is there a meaning that can be attached to it, or has it been used and misused for so many different purposes that it’s now essentially meaningless?

 

And - whether or not there is now an accepted meaning - if the original meaning is no longer valid then when, how and by what authority did it cease to be so? If your obtuse remark was directed at my definition, why is it obtuse of me to continue to use the original meaning?

 

 

it's cynically being conflated with more sympathetic definitions of Judaism to attempt to shutdown criticism of the cunts by using the antisemitic card.  

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Jairzinho Grand Master

Jairzinho

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Bit anti-semitic, that.

 

"A leading Israeli rights group, B’Tselem, issued a rare appeal to Israeli soldiers to refuse “grossly illegal” orders to fire at unarmed protesters."

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Numero Veinticinco Grand Master

Numero Veinticinco

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What does the term mean now then, in your opinion?

To answer that, I think it's important to recognise that not only has the meaning of Zionism changed, but that it HAD to change. If it originally meant - as defined by its founder, and the congress he set-up - in general terms as a the creation of a home for the Jewish people in Palestine, then I think most would probably agree that this objective has been well and truly complete. They are, after all a nuclear armed regional power with the support of the world's only hyper power. If you've already got your homeland, continually proposing you should have one is redundant. So, it's about keeping and/or expanding it and pushing the national identity. But, in my view, this political cause (which, as somebody that doesn't support states based off of Jewishness, Muslimness, or anything like it, I'm not a huge fan of but can accept that Jews wanted somewhere they weren't persecuted) isn't now achieved passively or benevolently, but in a power and land grab, in a money grab. What Zionism meant pretty much cannot mean what it does today. More importantly, I think people conflate anti-zionism with anti-semitism and they do so for political gain. That is a quite evident tactic used by Israel's very powerful, propagandistic 'hasbara' or PR efforts of the government. It's still a political cause, but it's the cause of Jews and non-Jews alike, and it's not about persecution or any other noble cause. It's about power, land, and control.

 

Is there a meaning that can be attached to it, or has it been used and misused for so many different purposes that it’s now essentially meaningless?

I think there's meaning to it, but it's more a grouping of people that support something. It has very little to do with Jewishness. It never really did, lots of Zionists aren't Jewish or religious. I could go more into it, but there's not much point.

 

And - whether or not there is now an accepted meaning - if the original meaning is no longer valid then when, how and by what authority did it cease to be so?

Well, it has changed and developed, but as far as authority goes the United Nations General Assembly Resolution 3379 Determined that Zionism is a form of racism and racial discrimination. Only as part of Israeli demands in 1991 peace talks, was it revoked.

 

If your obtuse remark was directed at my definition, why is it obtuse of me to continue to use the original meaning?

It wasn't aimed at you, it was a general point. But I think it's obtuse because those who use it generally know more than they're letting on about the situation. That makes it deliberately obtuse. Otherwise, they don't know and they should!

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AngryOfTuebrook Grand Master

AngryOfTuebrook

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Maybe if people behaved in a more peacefull, less murderous way, they would be treated with more tolerance by their antsy neighbours. Just a thought.

Bastard Palestinians. All of them, forever trying to kill innocent Israelis, who are forced to reluctantly take proportionate and reasonable action to defend themselves.
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Strontium Grand Master

Strontium

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Bastard Palestinians. All of them, forever trying to kill innocent Israelis, who are forced to reluctantly take proportionate and reasonable action to defend themselves.

I think the one thing Israel could never be accused of doing is taking proportionate action. They definitely play by Chicago rules. Still, there's a nice quote about being the change you want to see in the world. I think if Palestine had a Mandela or a Gandhi they wouldn't be in this hopeless and unwinnable situation.

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