Jump to content
  • Sign up for free and receive a month's subscription

    You are viewing this page as a guest. That means you are either a member who has not logged in, or you have not yet registered with us. Signing up for an account only takes a minute and it means you will no longer see this annoying box! It will also allow you to get involved with our friendly(ish!) community and take part in the discussions on our forums. And because we're feeling generous, if you sign up for a free account we will give you a month's free trial access to our subscriber only content with no obligation to commit. Register an account and then send a private message to @dave u and he'll hook you up with a subscription.

Who's good enough for next season?


Paul
 Share

Who's good enough for the first eleven?  

1,215 members have voted

  1. 1. Who's good enough for the first eleven?



Recommended Posts

I didn't choose Riise, as much as he has improved I don't think he will sustain a place there. He's been great at left-midfield and scored some tremendous goals but I don't think he gets enough crosses in. I only picked about six players. I picked the players who I think are good enough to stay there and don't need replacing.

I'm very surprised you don't see JAR in the side. To me, he's a nailed on certainty for next season; a typical Rafa player: he's extremely fit and can work hard for the full 90 minutes, throughout a season; he can beat his man; he's a decent passer; and, most importantly of all, he's a midfielder who gets into the box and scores - probably a double figures player when he has a full season there. Unless Rafa has got some wonder player lined up on a free transfer, Riise will take some shifting from the left side of midfield.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 109
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

I'm very surprised you don't see JAR in the side. To me, he's a nailed on certainty for next season; a typical Rafa player: he's extremely fit and can work hard for the full 90 minutes, throughout a season; he can beat his man; he's a decent passer; and, most importantly of all, he's a midfielder who gets into the box and scores - probably a double figures player when he has a full season there. Unless Rafa has got some wonder player lined up on a free transfer, Riise will take some shifting from the left side of midfield.

 

Yes but Paul he is neither a top class left winger or a world class left back. He needs to sort out his defensive play to stay in the side IMO. He is an absolute sensation as a wing back and cover for the left of midfield but I want someone more composed and tricky on the left ala a fully fit Harry Kewelll.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes but Paul he is neither a top class left winger or a world class left back. He needs to sort out his defensive play to stay in the side IMO. He is an absolute sensation as a wing back and cover for the left of midfield but I want someone more composed and tricky on the left ala a fully fit Harry Kewelll.

Remember the Rafa quote about (I'm paraphrasing) wanting a consistent 7 out of ten player, rather than a sometimes 9 but sometimes 5 type? That's why Riise will get in the side ahead of HK even when HK is fit (if that day ever comes).

 

Like I said, unless we get some boy wonder at a bargain basement price, JAR will be in the team next season. He is a dangerous, effective and hard-working player who scores goals. HK is a fat, lazy Heskey Mk II - great on paper, but lacks the mental strength and confidence to do it consistently.

 

Talent means fuck all without application and Kewell, for what ever reason, does not apply himself, and hasn't done so since Leeds' run to the CL semi-final several years ago.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm very surprised you don't see JAR in the side. To me, he's a nailed on certainty for next season; a typical Rafa player: he's extremely fit and can work hard for the full 90 minutes, throughout a season; he can beat his man; he's a decent passer; and, most importantly of all, he's a midfielder who gets into the box and scores - probably a double figures player when he has a full season there. Unless Rafa has got some wonder player lined up on a free transfer, Riise will take some shifting from the left side of midfield.

 

I agree with the fitness and that he has played out of his skin. I just think that if you compare him to Robben, Giggs, etc then you will see my point. He's done tremendously well but he doesn't offer us enough. Grit and determination, whilst noble attributes, aren't sufficient. I have to disagree that he beats his man, he does on ocassion but not nearly enough. His short range passing is good but he can't cross. For me, and it is only my opinion, crossing is a must from a wide player.

 

In Morientes we have an amazing header of the ball. We don't utilise that enough. Why? It's because we don't get enough decent crosses in. The last time I saw a quality cross put into the box for a header was Garcia Vs Fulham and Morientes nailed it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree he's no Robben, but then who is? He cost £13m at the age of 19; less than a season on, what price now? At least double, I'd say. In short, any player of such proven quality is prohibitively expensive and any young player with the potential still represents a huge gamble. There's a dearth of top class wide players in the game and everyone wants them; hence the price, viz Joaquin c. £25m.

 

As for the point about crosses, Finnan can cross from the right and Warnock has shown signs of being able to do the same from the left. I think it's crazy to be focusing on Riise's negatives when there are so many positives. It's like criticising Carra for his finishing.

 

I think we'd be hard pushed to find someone more effective than JAR for next season, and besides, surely we've got greater priorities than our left flank? I'd be looking at keepers, centre-halves and central midfielders first. After that, our striking options and right flank look more pressing for new blood than the left.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I disagree about the JAR for left midfield, he scores some great goals and shows urgency but he doesn't have many assists and cannot beat a man for pace or skill - this is not the type of left midfielder we need. I know we cannot have world class in every area but look at our rivals they have Pires, Ljungberg, Reyes, Giggs, Ronaldo, Robben, Duff et all - if we want to compete at the highest level we need to go the next level in terms of attacking threat. None of the above players cost more than £17M indeed most of them cost nearer to £12M which a club of our size can afford - I can think of a couple that would be good - Jerome Rotten for one. Rafa likes to play one up front with two good wide men, it is very important that we get this right in the summer. We need a good right winger and we need Kewell to step or we need a new left winger. Riise can play left back or cover left midfield as he does now, he certainly isn't good enough at left midfield to form a championship winning side.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is a big if *Rashid, pls don't take this upon yourself to make a Gerrard thread* but 'IF' Gerrard goes Riise will not keep his place in the team. Gerrard plus Milan plus usual end of season spends will gives us enough to buy a winger, a midfielder, a forward and a centre back, and more.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Remember the Rafa quote about (I'm paraphrasing) wanting a consistent 7 out of ten player, rather than a sometimes 9 but sometimes 5 type? That's why Riise will get in the side ahead of HK even when HK is fit (if that day ever comes).

 

Like I said, unless we get some boy wonder at a bargain basement price, JAR will be in the team next season. He is a dangerous, effective and hard-working player who scores goals. HK is a fat, lazy Heskey Mk II - great on paper, but lacks the mental strength and confidence to do it consistently.

 

Talent means fuck all without application and Kewell, for what ever reason, does not apply himself, and hasn't done so since Leeds' run to the CL semi-final several years ago.

 

this is what i have been saying, its the system first, then the players, look at Valencia and there wide players neither there wingers have the trickery of a Duff/Robben but they get the job done. Look at Bob Paisley's wide players Ray Kennedy, Ronnie Whelan, Jimmy Case & Sammy Lee. none of those bar Whelan won major international honours.

 

When will people get it, its not about players its about the system, Some could argue that Hyppia is a better player than Pellle but Pelle obviously fits Rafa's system better.

 

How do we know that SWP or Joaquin would fit Rafa's system, would they be good enough defensively, we just dont know

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is a big if *Rashid, pls don't take this upon yourself to make a Gerrard thread* but 'IF' Gerrard goes Riise will not keep his place in the team. Gerrard plus Milan plus usual end of season spends will gives us enough to buy a winger, a midfielder, a forward and a centre back, and more.

 

From what I have heard from various people Stevie will not be leaving in the summer if things go according to plan - ie a few more good players and some investment so the club moves foward so I doubt we will be relying on any spend from his sale.

 

Baros may move but with 1 year only left we would be lucky to get £8M - little Mikey went for £10M.

 

I think Riise is a favourite of Rafa's but I think so is Harry Kewell and he will get his place back when he returns. The key spend for me would be at Right Midfield and a partner for Carra. With the injured players back we will be strong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

this is what i have been saying, its the system first, then the players, look at Valencia and there wide players neither there wingers have the trickery of a Duff/Robben but they get the job done.

 

You are a Joker.

 

Vicente at Valencia is probably the best left winger in the world and Refute is as tricky as they come. What planet do you live on? Rafa's Valencia had some of the best players in the world in Vicente, Aimar, Baraja, Albelda, Ayala, Marchena etc.

 

They were not carthorses..... what made them different is that they worked as a team.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why has this thread turned aggressive or into an argument? The whole thread is based upon perspective, that was the point of the vote. Beng entitled to an opinion is known as democracy. Nick isn't a joker but nor are you or I.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why has this thread turned aggressive or into an argument? The whole thread is based upon perspective, that was the point of the vote. Beng entitled to an opinion is known as democracy. Nick isn't a joker but nor are you or I.

 

Sorry mate the lad winds me up.

 

He talks of Valencia's wingers as grafters which they are but in terms of never being a 'Duff or Robben' - this is madness.... Vicente and Refute are world class players - before them they had Kily Gonzalez and Mendietta.... Valencia are known for their wide men.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I disagree about the JAR for left midfield, he scores some great goals and shows urgency but he doesn't have many assists and cannot beat a man for pace or skill - this is not the type of left midfielder we need. I know we cannot have world class in every area but look at our rivals they have Pires, Ljungberg, Reyes, Giggs, Ronaldo, Robben, Duff et all - if we want to compete at the highest level we need to go the next level in terms of attacking threat. None of the above players cost more than £17M indeed most of them cost nearer to £12M which a club of our size can afford - I can think of a couple that would be good - Jerome Rotten for one. Rafa likes to play one up front with two good wide men, it is very important that we get this right in the summer. We need a good right winger and we need Kewell to step or we need a new left winger. Riise can play left back or cover left midfield as he does now, he certainly isn't good enough at left midfield to form a championship winning side.

Rash, do you ever actually read a thread or think about your response before you post? The points you've made here have already been made and I've already responded to them. You're posting in circles.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are a Joker.

 

Vicente at Valencia is probably the best left winger in the world and Refute is as tricky as they come. What planet do you live on? Rafa's Valencia had some of the best players in the world in Vicente, Aimar, Baraja, Albelda, Ayala, Marchena etc.

 

They were not carthorses..... what made them different is that they worked as a team.

 

Agian just like Pellegrino you havent got a clue what your talking about. If the 2 wingers in question were so good why hasnt Barca or Real tried to buy them. there excellent players but would either of those players get in this season's La LIga team, like fuck they would, Viciente would have last year, he's a great crosser and would be a great addition to our side but if you reckon he's gonna be Flying down the wing like Duff & Robben you are sadly mistaken.

 

Albelda is a spanish version of Hammann, Ayala, Aimar, Marchena & Baraja are fantastic players but it was Rafa's system first and those players second

 

Anyway we get a couple of these in the summer then we'll see

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Rash, do you ever actually read a thread or think about your response before you post? The points you've made here have already been made and I've already responded to them. You're posting in circles.

 

your totally right paul and appologies for being drawn into an argument with the man. i wont respond to him anymore on this thread anyway

 

What this thread has pointed out is that things are actually quite positive for the future of this club we might not chalenge next season but i think we'll chalenge the season after

 

Lets keep one thread positive at least

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Agian just like Pellegrino you havent got a clue what your talking about. If the 2 wingers in question were so good why hasnt Barca or Real tried to buy them. there excellent players but would either of those players get in this season's La LIga team, like fuck they would, Viciente would have last year, he's a great crosser and would be a great addition to our side but if you reckon he's gonna be Flying down the wing like Duff & Robben you are sadly mistaken.

 

Albelda is a spanish version of Hammann, Ayala, Aimar, Marchena & Baraja are fantastic players but it was Rafa's system first and those players second

 

Anyway we get a couple of these in the summer then we'll see

 

Why would Vicente and Refute leave the Spanish Champions? Why would they sell to Barcelona or Real Madrid? Why?

 

Vicente is home grown talent who supported Valencia as a boy, if he left he would go abroad.

 

Living in Spain but haven't seen Vicente play, he is class and can take on players, cross a ball, take a free kick and run defenders ragged. He is first choice for Spain ahead of Reyes.

 

Albelda is a Keane than he is Hamann - he is very aggressive.

 

And my point is that the quality of all those players make Rafa's system work....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why would Vicente and Refute leave the Spanish Champions? Why would they sell to Barcelona or Real Madrid? Why?

 

Vicente is home grown talent who supported Valencia as a boy, if he left he would go abroad.

 

Living in Spain but haven't seen Vicente play, he is class and can take on players, cross a ball, take a free kick and run defenders ragged. He is first choice for Spain ahead of Reyes.

 

Albelda is a Keane than he is Hamann - he is very aggressive.

 

And my point is that the quality of all those players make Rafa's system work....

I don't think Nick is arguing with you about the quality of the players Rash. His point is that Rafa is a "team first" manager; he only wants players who can fit into his system. That's why we'll probably see Baros leave without a struggle this summer: he's a talented player who has been unable to play as Rafa wants.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i've obviously seen the Valencia team play and some of there players are fantastic but just because your a fantastic player that dosent mean they would fit Rafa's system

 

It's the system first and the players second

 

Anyway i am feeling really positive about the next 2 seasons just hope we make the CL as the extra cash and prestige could take a year off the rebuilding programme.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with Paul, there are far more pressing matters to address than the left side of midfield. It would be great to have a Robben/Duff type of player but if we're being realistic we can't afford to get such a player and JAR is on the next level down which is no bad thing.

 

I think JAR will eventually end up at left back anyway - he has got to improve defensively of course but I think he will, and in time will be a major asset as a marauding left back.

 

As for Milan, it's one of the worst kept secrets in football for me that Rafa isn't his biggest fan. If the club were hell bent on keeping him then there would have been a mention of a new contract but the silence is deafening. Rafa is after a link man as his preference is on players who keep the ball and probe for openings.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think that 16 of that list are good enough to be in the first team squad in the sense that if they were picked you wouldn't think that they were an obvious weakness for the opposition to exploit.

We definitely need two additional first team regulars- one at GK (unless Kirkland can get properly fit) and one in central defence.We also need more cover at LM unless Kewell can get fit and committed.We could also strengthen the RM position but that's not the main priority.

The difficult choices will be at CM - if all our current players are staying (unlikely) I think all we need is an additional creative player to play behind the striker when Rafa goes for just one up front.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with Paul, there are far more pressing matters to address than the left side of midfield. It would be great to have a Robben/Duff type of player but if we're being realistic we can't afford to get such a player and JAR is on the next level down which is no bad thing.

 

I think JAR will eventually end up at left back anyway - he has got to improve defensively of course but I think he will, and in time will be a major asset as a marauding left back.

 

As for Milan, it's one of the worst kept secrets in football for me that Rafa isn't his biggest fan. If the club were hell bent on keeping him then there would have been a mention of a new contract but the silence is deafening. Rafa is after a link man as his preference is on players who keep the ball and probe for openings.

 

Personally i think Warnock would be a better LB as his crossing is superior to that of JAR, but Traore is the best defensively

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jerome Rothen (not Rotten) is another player we should probably have signed years ago - before we signed Kewell in fact. Wasn't he at Lille or somewhere like that? I remember seeing him playing in Europe for some mediocre French team and thinking "Houllier's bound to be in for him". After that I think he went to one of the bigger French clubs, but hasn't really gone on to the next level since. Anyway, he's good, but he's certainly not so much better than Riise that we should be thinking of spending £8 million or so to get him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would like to see warnock in the first eleven, why not?

 

Think he's still learning the fullback role and deserves a spot on the bench but just falls below first XI. Fair play to him, he's taken the chance offered and grabbed it with both hands unlike some on the fringes. (and he's no Bambi on ice)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share


×
×
  • Create New...