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Fulham (H) - Sat 14th Dec 2024 (3:00pm)


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1 hour ago, Barrington Womble said:

 

Honestly, I think you need to watch it again. He didn't knock the ball passed Robertson. Robertson miscontrolled the ball. Wilson ran on the to poor touch (and got goal side of Robertson) and layed the ball inside to Jimenez. Robbo clattered Wilson once the ball was well released on on its way to Jimenez and Wilson wouldn't have got near it even if he wanted it. Wilson wasn't in control of the ball or likely to get control. The ball was not running directly to the goal, it was going square across the box. The ball reached the destination it was intended to, so the obvious goal opportunity still happened and wasn't prevented. 

 

This is what Gallagher says and he defends just about every decision, but this was simply indefensible. 

 

DERMOT SAYS: "I have had a lot of chances to look at this again and I did not think it was a red card at the time, and I still don't.

 

"Robertson doesn't know he's coming, he mis-controls the ball and Wilson nicks the ball. Is he in control of the ball? No. Is he going to gain control of the ball? Very doubtful because the Liverpool player is going to get their first. Is he moving towards goal? No. There's are too many variables and the 'O' [in DOGSO - Denying a goal or an obvious goalscoring opportunity] stands for obvious and not possible."

At the match, I felt the red was inevitable and probably correct, but just catching up with the footage for the fist time today, I was dubious, and then, for once, Dopey Dermot was lucid and rationale and went through the (correct) thought process that Atwell should have followed but clearly didn't - there was definitely no clear goalscoring opportunity according to the criteria normally applied in this context. The officiating was abysmal throughout - by the ref, VAR and even the lino on the SKD side. So many errors, pretty much all of them favouring Fulham. Jones was booked for a foul on Iwobe, getting some of the ball, but more of Iwobe. Berge took out Gakpo in the first half in not dissimilar fashion, no booking. Lots of inconsistencies throughout. Atwell should also have sent the ref to the screen to look at the Pereira tackle on Ryan. Contrary to what was suggested on Ref Watch, that cunt knew exactly what he was doing and could have broken Ryan's ankle. Maybe more than coincidence a couple of minutes later when Ryan was struggling to get across when Iwobe and Robinson were overloading on Trent, allowing the latter to cross for them to score.

 

Other than that, our lads were utterly fantastic from the red card onwards (apart from maybe Trent who was drifitng infield far to much in the 2nd half, leaving a yawning gap down his side. Special mentions to Dom and Grav.

 

Lots of plaudits around for Robinson, and yes, he produced two good assists - but he also fluffed several more when he had the freedom of the field, and I thought Mo was giving him the runaround at times.... and he was 10 yards off Mo when he was crossing for Gakpo.

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If the criteria for a red card in the Robertson situation is denial of an OBVIOUS goalscoring opportunity then it should never have been a red.  Wilson nicks it with a heavy touch and was never getting to the ball, so he has no obvious goalscoring opportunity denied. The ball then rolls to Jimenez who has a goalscoring opportunity and misses. There's nowhere a red card fits in that scenario, it was a clear error and the VAR should have done something about it.

 

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2 hours ago, DaveT said:

At the match, I felt the red was inevitable and probably correct, but just catching up with the footage for the fist time today, I was dubious, and then, for once, Dopey Dermot was lucid and rationale and went through the (correct) thought process that Atwell should have followed but clearly didn't - there was definitely no clear goalscoring opportunity according to the criteria normally applied in this context. The officiating was abysmal throughout - by the ref, VAR and even the lino on the SKD side. So many errors, pretty much all of them favouring Fulham. Jones was booked for a foul on Iwobe, getting some of the ball, but more of Iwobe. Berge took out Gakpo in the first half in not dissimilar fashion, no booking. Lots of inconsistencies throughout. Atwell should also have sent the ref to the screen to look at the Pereira tackle on Ryan. Contrary to what was suggested on Ref Watch, that cunt knew exactly what he was doing and could have broken Ryan's ankle. Maybe more than coincidence a couple of minutes later when Ryan was struggling to get across when Iwobe and Robinson were overloading on Trent, allowing the latter to cross for them to score.

 

Other than that, our lads were utterly fantastic from the red card onwards (apart from maybe Trent who was drifitng infield far to much in the 2nd half, leaving a yawning gap down his side. Special mentions to Dom and Grav.

 

Lots of plaudits around for Robinson, and yes, he produced two good assists - but he also fluffed several more when he had the freedom of the field, and I thought Mo was giving him the runaround at times.... and he was 10 yards off Mo when he was crossing for Gakpo.

 

 

The referee was absolutely shite, one of the worst I've seen. I can actually forgive him for the red card though, mistakes happen and if he didn't track the ball, Wilson's position would suggest it was DOGSO. I can't forgive the VAR though, because his job is to use the cameras to see it all, including following the ball. The only obvious thing about that decision is it was wrong. There certainly wasn't an obviously goalscoring opportunity which Robertson denied. I don't really understand when it was broken down so easily by Gallagher today how atwell could be so wrong. Between the 4 of them on ref watch, the best they could come up with is he forgot to check the red because he spent so much time looking at the offside. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Moo said:

If the criteria for a red card in the Robertson situation is denial of an OBVIOUS goalscoring opportunity then it should never have been a red.  Wilson nicks it with a heavy touch and was never getting to the ball, so he has no obvious goalscoring opportunity denied. The ball then rolls to Jimenez who has a goalscoring opportunity and misses. There's nowhere a red card fits in that scenario, it was a clear error and the VAR should have done something about it.

 

 

I guess my reply above also covers your point. I'm getting to the point where I think they need to get an admin person in with them in stockley park. Ask them why they're backing up a decision, and step them through what they're supposed to actually do. For me this is purely a failure of process, or worse, a referee who doesn't understand the laws he's applying. 

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18 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

I guess my reply above also covers your point. I'm getting to the point where I think they need to get an admin person in with them in stockley park. Ask them why they're backing up a decision, and step them through what they're supposed to actually do. For me this is purely a failure of process, or worse, a referee who doesn't understand the laws he's applying. 

 

Or just mic them up, with the audio available to all. Why the secrecy?

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41 minutes ago, Rushies tash said:

 

Or just mic them up, with the audio available to all. Why the secrecy?

 

oh, they should do that. but what i am getting at, is most of these really obvious failures, they seem to put down to looking at something else. 2 great examples for us right off the top of my head is this one and the little arms attack on VVD. in both cases there seems to be some defence of the refs that they missed the real problem, because they were too busy looking at offside. so have someone in the room who as soon as the refs start looking at stuff, before they clear it, run through a check list of what they absolutely have to look at to validate (or recommend an overturn on) a decision. 

 

it all feels to me like it's just some lads half watching down the pub, rather than some type of professional set up. in this day and age it could be easily done with an app - type offside and dogso into something on a screen and it makes you validate certain things. 

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2 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

 

oh, they should do that. but what i am getting at, is most of these really obvious failures, they seem to put down to looking at something else. 2 great examples for us right off the top of my head is this one and the little arms attack on VVD. in both cases there seems to be some defence of the refs that they missed the real problem, because they were too busy looking at offside. so have someone in the room who as soon as the refs start looking at stuff, before they clear it, run through a check list of what they absolutely have to look at to validate (or recommend an overturn on) a decision. 

 

it all feels to me like it's just some lads half watching down the pub, rather than some type of professional set up. in this day and age it could be easily done with an app - type offside and dogso into something on a screen and it makes you validate certain things. 

 

If we were party to the audio, at least we'd get to hear how useless they are in real time and it might negate the need for someone watching over them since, surely, someone would be straight on the phone to them telling them they'd missed the fucking obvious. That's assuming, of course, that they've nothing to hide.

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4 minutes ago, Rushies tash said:

 

If we were party to the audio, at least we'd get to hear how useless they are in real time and it might negate the need for someone watching over them since, surely, someone would be straight on the phone to them telling them they'd missed the fucking obvious. That's assuming, of course, that they've nothing to hide.

we do get to hear them on that twatty programme with the SYP cunt. and it's almost impossible to have an idea what the fuck they're on about. they're all just massive cunts, trying to say their mates nickname as often as they can. 

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9 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

we do get to hear them on that twatty programme with the SYP cunt. and it's almost impossible to have an idea what the fuck they're on about. they're all just massive cunts, trying to say their mates nickname as often as they can. 

True 

im surprised Sky haven’t launched a new channel where you can press the red button and get live feed from the ref of your choice 

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2 minutes ago, sir roger said:

The have technical assistance but are too arrogant to use it properly. Think back to the Diaz at Spurs incident when the only person in the loop who seemed to be aware of any problem was the VAR  techy, and he was ignored by all of the PGMOL shower.

I'd just make it compulsory. It doesn't even need to be a football person (in fact that would fit in well). Just ask what they're reviewing, put it into the app and let the app tell them what they need to check and they run through all the points before they clear. 

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12 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

 

 

The referee was absolutely shite, one of the worst I've seen. I can actually forgive him for the red card though, mistakes happen and if he didn't track the ball, Wilson's position would suggest it was DOGSO. I can't forgive the VAR though, because his job is to use the cameras to see it all, including following the ball. The only obvious thing about that decision is it was wrong. There certainly wasn't an obviously goalscoring opportunity which Robertson denied. I don't really understand when it was broken down so easily by Gallagher today how atwell could be so wrong. Between the 4 of them on ref watch, the best they could come up with is he forgot to check the red because he spent so much time looking at the offside. 

 

 

 

I guess my reply above also covers your point. I'm getting to the point where I think they need to get an admin person in with them in stockley park. Ask them why they're backing up a decision, and step them through what they're supposed to actually do. For me this is purely a failure of process, or worse, a referee who doesn't understand the laws he's applying. 

“the best they could come up with is he forgot to check the red because he spent so much time looking at the offside“

Where have I heard that before ? Oh yeah when Pickford did Virg , wasn’t Atwell involved there?

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On 16/12/2024 at 15:04, Barrington Womble said:

 

Honestly, I think you need to watch it again. He didn't knock the ball passed Robertson. Robertson miscontrolled the ball. Wilson ran on the to poor touch (and got goal side of Robertson) and layed the ball inside to Jimenez. Robbo clattered Wilson once the ball was well released on on its way to Jimenez and Wilson wouldn't have got near it even if he wanted it. Wilson wasn't in control of the ball or likely to get control. The ball was not running directly to the goal, it was going square across the box. The ball reached the destination it was intended to, so the obvious goal opportunity still happened and wasn't prevented. 

 

This is what Gallagher says and he defends just about every decision, but this was simply indefensible. 

 

DERMOT SAYS: "I have had a lot of chances to look at this again and I did not think it was a red card at the time, and I still don't.

 

"Robertson doesn't know he's coming, he mis-controls the ball and Wilson nicks the ball. Is he in control of the ball? No. Is he going to gain control of the ball? Very doubtful because the Liverpool player is going to get their first. Is he moving towards goal? No. There's are too many variables and the 'O' [in DOGSO - Denying a goal or an obvious goalscoring opportunity] stands for obvious and not possible."

I did watch it again and that ball was still in Fulham's possession. The decision is legitimate for a foul but the puzzling thing is why he stopped play when Fulham were clean through. I reckon he blew too quickly if anything.

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4 minutes ago, VladimirIlyich said:

I did watch it again and that ball was still in Fulham's possession. The decision is legitimate for a foul but the puzzling thing is why he stopped play when Fulham were clean through. I reckon he blew too quickly if anything.

 

He didn't blew till after the shot and vvd cleared it - then brought it back. And the fact fulham got their chance meant they still got their goalscoring opportunity. I 100% agree it's a foul, in fact I think it's unquestionable. I just never thought it was DOGSO.

 

One of the things Gallagher said, was if the ref wanted to send Robertson off, he should have blown for the foul, which denies the goalscoring opportunity. I think it says a lot about how refs run PL.gsmes that Gallagher would take a view that a ref would want to send someone off. 

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19 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

 

He didn't blew till after the shot and vvd cleared it - then brought it back. And the fact fulham got their chance meant they still got their goalscoring opportunity. I 100% agree it's a foul, in fact I think it's unquestionable. I just never thought it was DOGSO.

 

One of the things Gallagher said, was if the ref wanted to send Robertson off, he should have blown for the foul, which denies the goalscoring opportunity. I think it says a lot about how refs run PL.gsmes that Gallagher would take a view that a ref would want to send someone off. 


You would see your arse if that was Kyle Walker against us and he didn’t get a red card.

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