PODCAST: Arsenal 2 Liverpool 2 - Match Reaction

[Millhouseno1]

Echo what alot are saying here. I listen to the all the pods, love the craic and they usually give an accurate perspective of where things are at in the short-term and also overall. Found today to be a hard listen tbh, just a small bit entitled. We all knew the transition from Kloppo to whoever was not going to be easiest. And we are blessed to be where we’re at in all honesty.  
 

As was mentioned Slot himself hasn’t been overly impressed with some performances. Imagine what could happen if he got to buy a player or 2 that suits his style of play!! 
 

Anyway keep up the good work, looking forward to the next one already!!

[3 Stacks]

The opening monologues were kind of absurd, honestly. Especially the comparisons to Klopp.

 

One of the worst things the club and Slot have said clearly, is that the managerial choice was made due to style of play and that not much would change and all that. It was always nonsense and it's made the expectations too high. Had we hired Alonso like everyone wanted, the style would have been just as different to Klopp's. Much more of the talk of control and playing with 6 defenders. 

 

[Code]

I have spent exactly zero seconds thinking about Klopp since we started pre-season.

 

He’s history, why waste time thinking or talking about him when it comes to anything to do with the current team?

[aws]

2 minutes ago, Code said:

I have spent exactly zero seconds thinking about Klopp since we started pre-season.

 

He’s history, why waste time thinking or talking about him when it comes to anything to do with the current team?

If Mo goes in the summer, do you promise never to think or talk about him again? 

[No2]

55 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

The opening monologues were kind of absurd, honestly. Especially the comparisons to Klopp.

 

One of the worst things the club and Slot have said clearly, is that the managerial choice was made due to style of play and that not much would change and all that. It was always nonsense and it's made the expectations too high. Had we hired Alonso like everyone wanted, the style would have been just as different to Klopp's. Much more of the talk of control and playing with 6 defenders. 

 

I haven't seen much of Leverkusen but I know they score last minute winners and equalisers by the bucket load. Before yesterday we hadn't scored a goal after 75 minutes. Yesterday when Arsenal had none their best 4 players on the pitch we didn't go for it. We lacked the balls to get the extra 2 points. 

[Code]

35 minutes ago, aws said:

If Mo goes in the summer, do you promise never to think or talk about him again? 

If we offer him a good contract and he still leaves he will be dead to me, if we force him out it’s a completely different story.

 

Klopp decided to leave one year before his contract expired. 

[Slotball]

1 hour ago, Code said:

I have spent exactly zero seconds thinking about Klopp since we started pre-season.

 

He’s history, why waste time thinking or talking about him when it comes to anything to do with the current team?

Agreed. He's gone, get over it etc

[Slotball]

1 hour ago, aws said:

If Mo goes in the summer, do you promise never to think or talk about him again? 

Lol

[razor]

6 hours ago, Code said:

If we offer him a good contract and he still leaves he will be dead to me, if we force him out it’s a completely different story.

 

Klopp decided to leave one year before his contract expired. 

 

"Decided" is doing some heavy lifting there, Code.

[Paul]

Feel like I should respond as so many who listen to the pod have gone to the trouble of giving feedback. So here you go:
 

For me, the way I’m feeling right now has got absolutely nothing to do with either optimism or pessimism because both of those things are about the outlook moving forward. I was simply talking about what I’m seeing right now and I just do not find it entertaining. I’m completely unapologetic about that view too.

 

I do wonder whether my experiences at the match are affecting my opinion though. I definitely felt I was part of something over the Klopp years in a very literal way. When he made comments about the support in the crowd he was literally talking to me (albeit as well as 50,000 other people). So when we as fans went nuts and the team swept all before them, that felt like a new level of exhilaration to which I directly contributed.

 

I remember the glory days of Kenny from The Kop and I will never forget those times where we’d score and you’d literally be swept away in a mass of bodies celebrating together. The years under Klopp were, by a million miles for me, the closest to that emotionally and, in terms of the quality of football and scale of achievement, they far surpassed it.

Therefore, when I see us playing this very circumspect football that doesn’t really commit much to attack, it bothers me. Beyond that though, when there’s a wider narrative that’s trying to tell me that in someway this is a cleverer or more effective way to play football I know that’s not true and it feels like gaslighting. 

 

Yes, we can make direct comparisons to last season but I don’t think about the Jurgen Klopp era as games or seasons in isolation, but rather as one whole period. Of course it wasn’t perfect, but I’ll tell you what - it was fucking amazing and we achieved literally unprecedented things which I suspect will never be repeated. 

That all said, I’m totally open to the idea that Slot is doing a really good job at this stage and that he can improve further. I’m emphatically not criticising him and I am a million miles from making judgements about what he wants or where we will end up under him. But my emotional response right now is what it is and I make absolutely fuck all apology for it. 
 

I can’t speak for Dave or his intentions, but in my view, the pod isn’t supposed to be objective or representative or even fair. It’s just a group of mates talking shite about the Reds after the match. Judging by the reactions, you all certainly seem to have got the “shite” part! Ha, ha, ha!!! 
 

For all the intellectualising of football in the modern era with data, analysis and 24/7, 365 news and fan media coverage (all of which I love), it is still fundamentally about emotions for me. I think that’s certainly what Brownie and I served up on this pod and I’m absolutely sound with that.

 

[No2]

The most enjoyable game this season has been Leipzig. The reason that was enjoyable was it entertaining and the reason is was entertaining was because we gave the ball away a shit load of times. The rest of the games have been boring, it's probably his own fault for saying the football was aggressive counter press like Jurgens, if he had said nothing he would have started with supporters having completely open minds.

[dave u]

If he says he likes to counter press then I believe him. He's not doing it now, but I assume that's because he has more than one way of playing (depending on the situation) and he's trying to get this method embedded in now as the players are already comfortable with the other style.

 

I don't think this is how we'll always play under him, I expect that we'll see a shift towards more front footed play in certain games once he's had time to get all the other foundations in place first. So I'm relaxed about that in terms of the big picture.

 

I do think we were mostly shite on Sunday though, but Arsenal were too. That might be because of what we did, or because Arteta is overly cautious. Maybe it's both. 

[JohnnyH]

Having now listened to the episode, I can see why people are complaining about it.  I thought it was a horrible listen full of contradictions, needless moaning, and in some cases, just bullshit.  I need to vent as I’m quite angry about it. So I will.

 

Now the lads know I love this pod, I think the 3 people on it this episode know I genuinely respect and value their insights and 99.9% of the time I am nodding in agreement. But if you put your opinion out there in this format, then you accept it will be critiqued.  So I hope the cunts know it’s not personal. 

 

Firstly - stop constantly harking back to Klopp.  He’s gone and constantly wanting what he did is not just counterproductive but is also stupid.  Slot is the manager, and the LAST thing we want is trying to get a manager to change what made him good and got him the job in the first place.  I miss Klopp as much as anyone, and talking back to what we had with him every now and then is fine, but for the first two thirds of the pod that was all we heard?   

 

You moaned about Arsenal fans cry-arsing and entitlement and then immediately took it to new level!  “I want to win the league and play great football because we’re Liverpool”.  Change Liverpool to Arsenal and get an Arsenal fan saying that and we’d rightly slaughter their entitlement.

 

Also, Arsenal are not “shite”.  They are far from shite.  In fact, for 2 seasons they’ve been excellent and would have won two league titles if it wasn’t for City’s cheating.  If anyone can understand that, surely we can?

 

Further annoyances was the total re-writing of history on us “winning everything while swinging our dicks and telling everyone to fuck off”, etc, etc.  Our league title win was when we totally reigned it in and were winning many games by a single goal.  That was even alluded to at one point but then moved on to claiming we won it with all-out attack. Simply not true.  And I think it’s unfair to Klopp to say it too as he clearly did his tactics over the summer and understood what was needed and produced the most amazing run of wins in our history by playing controlled football. See also our European Cup Final win. Now obviously more often than not we were great attacking play and we loved it, but lets not rewrite history.

 

If you’re going to (rightly) critique the awful first half, then you should have spoken about the positives in the second half.  When we scored, even Neville said “its been coming”.  There was a reason for that in that we were all over them at that point.  Arsenal couldn’t get out of their half.  Yet that wasn’t mentioned at all?

 

And then, what really annoyed me, and is probably the genesis of this post, was the absolute dismissal of the idea that Salahs goal could have been because of Slot.  Nope, it was just “good individual play”.  Not even a tiny bit of consideration that our defence standing on the ball is a clear play to bring teams out so we can get them over the top.  Something even Trent has spoken about in how his game is changing a bit.  And so when we see the space, the players have been trained to make the runs and Trent to look for them regardless of whether that’s come from stepping on the ball or a counter attack.. Nope, not a moments thought.  It was down to the players because how Slot plays is really boring and that’s not Liverpool.

 

And as for the not celebrating winning the league if City have been docked points and we win it by less then they were docked?  Absolutely get fucked.  If that’s your view, then you can’t claim we were the best when we got 97 points and didn’t win it either if they get done.  CITY CHEATED.  If we are not celebrating winning something because someone cheated and got punished then I don’t fucking know what the point is.

 

Now DaveU tried once or twice to do a bit of devils advocate (he even started it by saying he agrees with Paul and Brownie but will play devils advocate…) but when he said this is the start of the process and it’s getting the defence right first (which every manager ever does) he was cut across with “yeah but do you think Slot can do that as I’m not sure?”.  Immediately back to the negative. 

 

And saying “This isn’t a criticism about Slot” and then immediately being negative about everything the team lined up to do, is a criticism of Slot, so at least own it.

 

Maybe next time if you’re doing a pod and in your pre-pod chat you realise you’re all just going to be massively negative following what by any measures is a good result, then try and get someone else on who can at least offer a counter point?

 

Anyway.  You’re cunts.  You made me angry, but also more positive and supportive of Slot and what he’s trying to do.  So in some ways a good outcome, so thank you for that!

 

I hated that episode.  Looking forward to the next one already.

[3 Stacks]

12 hours ago, No2 said:

I haven't seen much of Leverkusen but I know they score last minute winners and equalisers by the bucket load. Before yesterday we hadn't scored a goal after 75 minutes. Yesterday when Arsenal had none their best 4 players on the pitch we didn't go for it. We lacked the balls to get the extra 2 points. 

We have had to do that just twice all season, because every other match has been won. Is that supposed to be a bad thing?

 

Also, I would agree about lacking balls if this match was in the title run in, but its in October. It just feels like most of the criticism is born out of people being totally unrealistic. 

[dave u]

Don't have a problem with most of that Johnny and don't want to go over too much old ground as I've said most of what I need to say in the match report.

 

Couple of things though. Nobody was angry about the result, everyone said a point at Arsenal is fine/good. It's possible to be happy with a result and unhappy with how we played. Also, nobody said Arsenal are shite. We may have said they played shite for a big part of the game, which is true. But not that they are shite.

 

If we're putting that second goal on Slot's tactics then is it not also fair to ask how come in 114 minutes of football we managed to get in behind them like that only once? It's not like we kept trying it and failing, we just weren't looking to do that at all. So when it happened, I don't see how you can say that's part of some tactical masterplan to suck them in and then hit them. 

 

As for "its been coming", well if anyone was going to score it looked more likely to be us because of the territorial dominance and control we had, but it's not like Raya was having to do anything. We weren't exactly hammering down the door, more like we were pressing the ring door bell and then politely waving at them asking if they wouldn't mind possibly opening up. 

 

To then not really create anything after getting level and coming up against a makeshift back four, personally I don't think that's cause for any great praise. A good point doesn't always mean good performance. Both teams were below what I would expect from them. Overall we're doing great, can't really ask for more in terms of results and as I keep saying in the reports I may not like how we're playing at times but I understand its a process and I have no long terms concerns about it. 

 

The pods are a reaction to the individual game we've just watched though rather than an overview of everything. They aren't recorded in between games when there's no emotion involved. They're recorded straight after where we'll discuss what we've just seen and how we're feeling about it at that particular moment, not how we think we'll feel in a couple of days time. Loads of people think this one (and maybe some others) was too negative, which is fair enough, so do I to a certain degree. But people feel the way they feel, I'm not going to tell them before they come on "don't say what you actually think, try and put a positive spin on it".

 

Listening to that pod the day after when the dust has settled and emotions aren't running high, it's always going to sound a lot worse. I absolutely get that. It's like reading back through a match thread the day after, it doesn't age very well. But if you want immediate reaction and honesty, sometimes this is what you'll get, unless you want dishonesty and for us to say what we think people want to hear rather than how we're actually feeling. That will never happen and if it did there'd be no point doing it. 

 

The alternative is to not record so soon after the game, which would be much easier for me actually, especially in midweek as it means I'm not up until 1am editing and posting, then getting grief from the missus for waking her up when I go to bed. "You're not getting paid for this, why are you wasting so much time doing it?" I don't even have a valid answer to that, she's right. It is ridiculous that I'm waking her up when she's got to be up for work the next morning, but people want immediate reaction, so that's what we try and do. That comes at a cost sometimes though, like with this one.

 

As for picking and choosing who comes on depending on how we feel, that comment has pissed me off a bit actually as it's not like everyone is sitting around with their hand up in the air ready to drop everything and come on. People have lives, families, other commitments. This isn't their job, they're giving up their time to do this and so I go with who is available while trying to mix it up as much as possible rather than having the same lads on each time. 

 

What do you want me to do, say "sorry Brownie, you're not coming on today because people might be upset that you miss Klopp and think the way we play now is boring. I'll get John B or Monty to cancel their plans and come on instead". For the record I would have liked to have Jules or Monty on for this one but neither was available, because y'know, work and family commitments.

 

Anyway, like I say, I understand why a lot of people didn't like it and I'll take all feedback on board as always, especially as a lot of the criticism (on here and twitter) has come from people whose views I respect. Ultimately though, people will feel what they feel and not everyone is going to agree.

[Bjornebye]

18 hours ago, Pidge said:

I always say 22 Poengs at this stage is fantastic. 

Poengs > Points 

 

 

 

[Brownie]

2 hours ago, JohnnyH said:

Having now listened to the episode, I can see why people are complaining about it.  I thought it was a horrible listen full of contradictions, needless moaning, and in some cases, just bullshit.  I need to vent as I’m quite angry about it. So I will.

 

Now the lads know I love this pod, I think the 3 people on it this episode know I genuinely respect and value their insights and 99.9% of the time I am nodding in agreement. But if you put your opinion out there in this format, then you accept it will be critiqued.  So I hope the cunts know it’s not personal. 

 

Firstly - stop constantly harking back to Klopp.  He’s gone and constantly wanting what he did is not just counterproductive but is also stupid.  Slot is the manager, and the LAST thing we want is trying to get a manager to change what made him good and got him the job in the first place.  I miss Klopp as much as anyone, and talking back to what we had with him every now and then is fine, but for the first two thirds of the pod that was all we heard?   

 

You moaned about Arsenal fans cry-arsing and entitlement and then immediately took it to new level!  “I want to win the league and play great football because we’re Liverpool”.  Change Liverpool to Arsenal and get an Arsenal fan saying that and we’d rightly slaughter their entitlement.

 

Also, Arsenal are not “shite”.  They are far from shite.  In fact, for 2 seasons they’ve been excellent and would have won two league titles if it wasn’t for City’s cheating.  If anyone can understand that, surely we can?

 

Further annoyances was the total re-writing of history on us “winning everything while swinging our dicks and telling everyone to fuck off”, etc, etc.  Our league title win was when we totally reigned it in and were winning many games by a single goal.  That was even alluded to at one point but then moved on to claiming we won it with all-out attack. Simply not true.  And I think it’s unfair to Klopp to say it too as he clearly did his tactics over the summer and understood what was needed and produced the most amazing run of wins in our history by playing controlled football. See also our European Cup Final win. Now obviously more often than not we were great attacking play and we loved it, but lets not rewrite history.

 

If you’re going to (rightly) critique the awful first half, then you should have spoken about the positives in the second half.  When we scored, even Neville said “its been coming”.  There was a reason for that in that we were all over them at that point.  Arsenal couldn’t get out of their half.  Yet that wasn’t mentioned at all?

 

And then, what really annoyed me, and is probably the genesis of this post, was the absolute dismissal of the idea that Salahs goal could have been because of Slot.  Nope, it was just “good individual play”.  Not even a tiny bit of consideration that our defence standing on the ball is a clear play to bring teams out so we can get them over the top.  Something even Trent has spoken about in how his game is changing a bit.  And so when we see the space, the players have been trained to make the runs and Trent to look for them regardless of whether that’s come from stepping on the ball or a counter attack.. Nope, not a moments thought.  It was down to the players because how Slot plays is really boring and that’s not Liverpool.

 

And as for the not celebrating winning the league if City have been docked points and we win it by less then they were docked?  Absolutely get fucked.  If that’s your view, then you can’t claim we were the best when we got 97 points and didn’t win it either if they get done.  CITY CHEATED.  If we are not celebrating winning something because someone cheated and got punished then I don’t fucking know what the point is.

 

Now DaveU tried once or twice to do a bit of devils advocate (he even started it by saying he agrees with Paul and Brownie but will play devils advocate…) but when he said this is the start of the process and it’s getting the defence right first (which every manager ever does) he was cut across with “yeah but do you think Slot can do that as I’m not sure?”.  Immediately back to the negative. 

 

And saying “This isn’t a criticism about Slot” and then immediately being negative about everything the team lined up to do, is a criticism of Slot, so at least own it.

 

Maybe next time if you’re doing a pod and in your pre-pod chat you realise you’re all just going to be massively negative following what by any measures is a good result, then try and get someone else on who can at least offer a counter point?

 

Anyway.  You’re cunts.  You made me angry, but also more positive and supportive of Slot and what he’s trying to do.  So in some ways a good outcome, so thank you for that!

 

I hated that episode.  Looking forward to the next one already.

Such a negative and moany post. Hated it.

 

Looking forward to the next one.

[JohnnyH]

46 minutes ago, dave u said:

 

As for picking and choosing who comes on depending on how we feel, that comment has pissed me off a bit actually as it's not like everyone is sitting around with their hand up in the air ready to drop everything and come on. People have lives, families, other commitments. This isn't their job, they're giving up their time to do this and so I go with who is available while trying to mix it up as much as possible rather than having the same lads on each time. 

 

What do you want me to do, say "sorry Brownie, you're not coming on today because people might be upset that you miss Klopp and think the way we play now is boring. I'll get John B or Monty to cancel their plans and come on instead". For the record I would have liked to have Jules or Monty on for this one but neither was available, because y'know, work and family commitments.

 

 

 

No, my point was if it's going to be three people about to be extremely negative even after a good result, then maybe see if you can get someone with a counter-point and can see the positives, or isn't going to constantly see everything through a Klopp lens?  However, I absolutely understand what you have said above.  It was only a throw-away comment.  I fully get that it's a case of having on who you have available and people can't just drop everything. 

 

My thought process was that all the best analysis is when people have different views, especially after a game like yesterday and when we're in the infancy of a new managers project and so it would have been nice to hear a counter point to that negativity.  But I fully accept how difficult that is to organise. And while it won't sound like it from my post, I'm very appreciative of the lads giving their time up as it's my favourite LFC pod.  

[dave u]

The other issue here is that I don't think there were any "differing views" other than maybe John B. Monty would usually be the go to guy in that situation (I've had him on for some of the more difficult ones for that very reason) but he didn't see the game due to personal reasons so wasn't an option. Plus I'm not going to vet everyone before we go on to see if we have differing opinions. If that happens its a bonus but it can't be planned for. 

 

You don't need to explain yourself though, I know you love the pod and I know you're appreciative of it. That's not in question mate, and I don't expect you to agree with everything we say either. Like I say, the feedback is appreciated and I thought most of your post was fair comment. I just felt like I needed to clarify some things though, but rest assured my love for you is unaffected by this. X

[JohnnyH]

20 minutes ago, dave u said:

, but rest assured my love for you is unaffected by this. X

 

That's all I ask,

 

 

 

[Spy Bee]

For the last couple of podcasts, this has been me talking at Brownie on the pod...

 

 

[Spy Bee]

He's gone, get over it!

 

This is a new era. We need to reset expectations and ultimately see where it takes us.

 

Klopp's football was fantastic, but even taking into consideration City's cheating, I think he should have won more trophies. If Slot plays more pragmatic football, but we win lots of trophies, I'll take it all day. 

 

I think his football will develop, but whoever came after Klopp was going to play less entertaining football, as Klopp's style is THE most entertaining.

 

God help us when we inevitably lose a few games!

[Brownie]

56 minutes ago, Spy Bee said:

For the last couple of podcasts, this has been me talking at Brownie on the pod...

 

 

I’d rather lose trying to win than draw trying to draw, 100%.

[No2]

4 hours ago, JohnnyH said:

 

No, my point was if it's going to be three people about to be extremely negative even after a good result, then maybe see if you can get someone with a counter-point and can see the positives, or isn't going to constantly see everything through a Klopp lens?  However, I absolutely understand what you have said above.  It was only a throw-away comment.  I fully get that it's a case of having on who you have available and people can't just drop everything. 

 

My thought process was that all the best analysis is when people have different views, especially after a game like yesterday and when we're in the infancy of a new managers project and so it would have been nice to hear a counter point to that negativity.  But I fully accept how difficult that is to organise. And while it won't sound like it from my post, I'm very appreciative of the lads giving their time up as it's my favourite LFC pod.  

@Scott_M you're up!!!

[chrisbonnie]

Jaysus, I know i made a post on this thread, but in no way was I critisising any of the lads on the pod. 

 

I for one, fully appreciate the fact they give up their own personal time for our listening pleasure. 

 

But I will stand by my opinion that not every game under klopp was this swash buckling affair. It's simply isn't true. 

 

I'm such a nerd, after the Chelsea game, which I honestly thought was crap by the way. I checked back on match threads from two games in the 19/20 season, at the similar stage of the season. One of those games was against Sheffield utd. We eventually won the game late one by one goal, and if you where to read the thread as the game was being played, you'd see clearly we where not bombarding the newly promoted teams goal every other minute, it was a lackluster shit show, but we managed to win in the end. 

 

The only reason I looked back on a match thread from the league winning season was to confirm to me that plenty of days under klopp where boring to. 

 

So to reiterate, I think you lads do a great job, it's now about the only Liverpool related podcast I'm listen to. So keep up the good work. 

 

But get over klopp. You big Mary's!