Southport stabbings

[Mook]

1 hour ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Like I said, anti-Fascists don't act like that.

 

And there aren't enough "hardcore Islamists" in the UK to cause that sort of widespread violence.

 

Worth remembering that the MI5 do spend a lot of time stopping Islamic terrorist attacks...

 

https://hansard.parliament.uk/Lords/2023-07-24/debates/03C258B1-5D37-4875-A575-204A0BFE9766/ContestUKStrategyForCounteringTerrorism2023

[Paulie Dangerously]

Can see this kicking off again, probably less so than last time due to the prison sentences. 

 

As said before, it's hard not to put the fact he's had a terrorist manual and he's committed an atrocity together to think it was an act of terrorism. 

[Section_31]

1 minute ago, Paulie Dangerously said:

Can see this kicking off again, probably less so than last time due to the prison sentences. 

 

As said before, it's hard not to put the fact he's had a terrorist manual and he's committed an atrocity together to think it was an act of terrorism. 

 

Nah, they've got no balls, the minute they saw repercussions that was the end. It's like when you see these "training camps" and it's a couple of Portsmouth fans hitting a bag in a garage.

 

They're thick thugs but typical bullies. They're sand people, bold in numbers but cautious by themselves.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

29 minutes ago, Mook said:

 

Worth remembering that the MI5 do spend a lot of time stopping Islamic terrorist attacks...

 

https://hansard.parliament.uk/Lords/2023-07-24/debates/03C258B1-5D37-4875-A575-204A0BFE9766/ContestUKStrategyForCounteringTerrorism2023

And no time at all stopping Islamist riots - because the Islamists don't have the numbers.

[RedKnight]

The weather's a bit shit and it gets dark earlier. It won't kick off again for those reasons alone.

[Anubis]

It's possible the police sat on the information to quell unrest, but equally as possible that they sat on it while they ran down leads taken from what was found in his bedroom, so as to not to alert any potential wider network. 

[Dave D]

I puzzle as to why its still ongoing- you could have sentenced the scumbag the very next day    

[Jack the Sipper]

I understand the criteria for an incident, even one as obviously terror-inducing as the Southport murders, to be classified as 'terror-related' (an ideological motivation), although I'd be interested to know what his motivation was outside of that given his interest in Al Qaeda and manufacturing ricin. In any case, the cunt is/was a terrorist, even if the initial crime that led to the investigation that led to the discovery of the manuals and ricin was stealing panties from the neighbours washing line. 

 

I also understand why the police didn't state that the crime was terror-related from the off, although to categorically state that it wasn't was premature, and has only led to more claims of a cover-up given what they've acknowledged since about his background.

[Mook]

28 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

And no time at all stopping Islamist riots - because the Islamists don't have the numbers.

 

I don't necessarily disagree with what you're saying but your complete inability to comment negatively at all on any sort of Islamic issue is interesting.

 

There is more than one problem going on here & they are only going to get worse with our government supporting that shite in the middle east.

[Bjornebye]

31 minutes ago, Anubis said:

It's possible the police sat on the information to quell unrest, but equally as possible that they sat on it while they ran down leads taken from what was found in his bedroom, so as to not to alert any potential wider network. 

 

This is a good point. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

59 minutes ago, Paulie Dangerously said:

As said before, it's hard not to put the fact he's had a terrorist manual and he's committed an atrocity together to think it was an act of terrorism. 

 

Of course, yeah. If Bin Laden showed up and blew up a plane, you don't ask 'huh, I wonder why he did that? What a mystery'. It doesn't make you a fascist and racist to say 'well, he was known as one of the most notorious terrorists of all time, maybe it was terrorism'. If your only comment on it is 'well, we don't know the motive yet so it isn't terrorism and you're all a bunch of fascists of you think so' then your perspective needs an adjustment. If the courts then decided that it was just a side-gig while exporting terror was his main job, then fine. More likely they want to get whatever conviction they can to make as solid of a case as they can. 

 

That's not to say the far right aren't going to use the fact this kid had ricin and documents prohibited under the terrorism act to stoke up anti-immigration, racist bullshit. It's totally fair to also, in addition, call that out. I thought Jenrick's comments yesterday were disgusting. I didn't even bother to look at what Farage said. 

[Jack the Sipper]

9 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

 

Of course, yeah. If Bin Laden showed up and blew up a plane, you don't ask 'huh, I wonder why he did that? What a mystery'. It doesn't make you a fascist and racist to say 'well, he was known as one of the most notorious terrorists of all time, maybe it was terrorism'. If your only comment on it is 'well, we don't know the motive yet so it isn't terrorism and you're all a bunch of fascists of you think so' then your perspective needs an adjustment. If the courts then decided that it was just a side-gig while exporting terror was his main job, then fine. More likely they want to get whatever conviction they can to make as solid of a case as they can. 

 

That's not to say the far right aren't going to use the fact this kid had ricin and documents prohibited under the terrorism act to stoke up anti-immigration, racist bullshit. It's totally fair to also, in addition, call that out. I thought Jenrick's comments yesterday were disgusting. I didn't even bother to look at what Farage said. 

 

I suspect that's the case. He's going down for good anyway without the terror component, so why complicate matters?

 

I also suspect that we'll find out his motivation for targeting a Taylor Swift event was something to do with her and the hype around her symbolising 'Western degeneracy', 'sexualization', 'consumerism' and all the other warped buzz words that come from the mouths and keyboards of the ultra conservative moralising Islamists.

 

I might be wrong, though - perhaps he just really hated Shake It Off.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

32 minutes ago, Jack the Sipper said:

I understand the criteria for an incident, even one as obviously terror-inducing as the Southport murders, to be classified as 'terror-related' (an ideological motivation), although I'd be interested to know what his motivation was outside of that given his interest in Al Qaeda and manufacturing ricin. In any case, the cunt is/was a terrorist, even if the initial crime that led to the investigation that led to the discovery of the manuals and ricin was stealing panties from the neighbours washing line. 

 

I also understand why the police didn't state that the crime was terror-related from the off, although to categorically state that it wasn't was premature, and has only led to more claims of a cover-up given what they've acknowledged since about his background.

It's still a fact that, legally, the murders were not a terrorist incident; that's why the police said they weren't.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

32 minutes ago, Mook said:

 

I don't necessarily disagree with what you're saying but your complete inability to comment negatively at all on any sort of Islamic issue is interesting.

 

That's just plainly and demonstrably untrue.

[Mook]

Just now, AngryOfTuebrook said:

That's just plainly and demonstrably untrue.

 

I tend to stay away from these threads generally so probably overstepped the mark a bit there, apologies.

 

Certainly the last couple of pages on here are applicable though.

[Jack the Sipper]

7 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

It's still a fact that, legally, the murders were not a terrorist incident; that's why the police said they weren't.

 

It's a claim or belief at this stage. But its also about perception. A terrorist terrorising people does kinda give credence to the idea that he was engaging in terrorist activities.

 

Do you dispute the claim that he's a terrorist, assuming he did have those manuals and ricin at his home?

[Numero Veinticinco]

5 minutes ago, Jack the Sipper said:

 

I suspect that's the case. He's going down for good anyway without the terror component, so why complicate matters?

 

I also suspect that we'll find out his motivation for targeting a Taylor Swift event was something to do with her and the hype around her symbolising 'Western degeneracy', 'sexualization', 'consumerism' and all the other warped buzz words that come from the mouths and keyboards of the ultra conservative moralising Islamists.

 

I might be wrong, though - perhaps he just really hated Shake It Off.

 

Right, it doesn't mean it's not a terrorist incident it means they're not currently treating it as terrorism because of the aspect of motive. That might well change. The idea that it wasn't a terrorist incident - which is normally defined violence with a political or ideological motive - given what we know is based in ideology itself. In terms of the current processes, from the police and prosecution, they need to be given their space to do things the proper way. 

 

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 minute ago, Jack the Sipper said:

 

It's a claim or belief at this stage. But its also about perception. A terrorist terrorising people does kinda give credence to the idea that he was engaging in terrorist activities.

 

Do you dispute the claim that he's a terrorist, assuming he did have those manuals and ricin at his home?

He's been charged with terrorist offences in connection with the manual and the ricin.

 

The police and the CPS are - quite rightly - using words like "terrorist" in a legal sense, which is more clearly defined than when its used on GN News or Twitter.  They're also (presumably) taking time to build a watertight case against this cunt, in order to improve their chances of securing a conviction; for the same reason, they're not running their mouths for the tabloids.

 

For all the noise of the stupid, permanently angry, racist dickheads, it looks like the police and CPS are actually doing the right thing here.

[Bjornebye]

It doesn't matter one jot if the police/CPS deem it a terrorist attack or not. The perception is out there and there is no reasoning. 

 

Farage already saying I told you so, Jenrick already using it as a political tool and tommy yaxley cunts hoards already frothing at the gash. Truth is they WANT it to be a terrorist attack they WANT shit like this to happen because they need more ammunition to justify their position/hate. 

 

"Nigel, suspect device at Birmingham airport, evacuation underway" *rubs hands together "Oh goody, lets hope we have a few fatalities and the culprit is called Ahmed, I've got a heating bill due" 

[TheHowieLama]

the perception is out there

 

The facts are out there.

 

TBH this guy was too much of a loser to be in any organized terrorist cell. Like most of the white lone wolfs.

Terrorism isn't for idiots.

[Dave D]

14 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

He's been charged with terrorist offences in connection with the manual and the ricin.

 

The police and the CPS are - quite rightly - using words like "terrorist" in a legal sense, which is more clearly defined than when its used on GN News or Twitter.  They're also (presumably) taking time to build a watertight case against this cunt, in order to improve their chances of securing a conviction; for the same reason, they're not running their mouths for the tabloids.

 

For all the noise of the stupid, permanently angry, racist dickheads, it looks like the police and CPS are actually doing the right thing here.

 

Just how incompetent would they need to be to not secure a conviction

[Jack the Sipper]

12 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

He's been charged with terrorist offences in connection with the manual and the ricin.

 

The police and the CPS are - quite rightly - using words like "terrorist" in a legal sense, which is more clearly defined than when its used on GN News or Twitter.  They're also (presumably) taking time to build a watertight case against this cunt, in order to improve their chances of securing a conviction; for the same reason, they're not running their mouths for the tabloids.

 

For all the noise of the stupid, permanently angry, racist dickheads, it looks like the police and CPS are actually doing the right thing here.

 

Exactly, which is why I took issue with you saying "It's still a fact that, legally, the murders were not a terrorist incident". The trial has just started. new evidence could come to light that causes the police/prosecution to feel more confident in calling this a terrorist incident. Alternatively, the defendant, knowing he's not seeing the outside world again, might decide to use the stand to proclaim the incident as motivated by ideology. 

 

There's plenty of time for the incident itself to be classified as terror-related, and even if it's not, that doesn't mean that it wasn't, as me and @Numero Veinticinco said above, only that the prosecution don't deem it necessary to secure a conviction.

[Jack the Sipper]

7 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

the perception is out there

 

The facts are out there.

 

TBH this guy was too much of a loser to be in any organized terrorist cell. Like most of the white lone wolfs.

Terrorism isn't for idiots.

 

Plenty of idiots take up the old terrorism game, and plenty of them act alone.

[TheHowieLama]

2 minutes ago, Jack the Sipper said:

 

Plenty of idiots take up the old terrorism game, and plenty of them act alone.

 

I think what some are saying is that makes them a deranged criminal in their eyes, not a terrorist.

[Jack the Sipper]

2 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

 

I think what some are saying is that makes them a deranged criminal in their eyes, not a terrorist.

 

Do you agree with them?