The Labour government thread

[Mook]

2 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

but Brexit was never about immigration.

There is no doubt it’s an important issue but very few politicians are going to stand up and say we need immigration to survive,

it’s become such a poisonous issue

we now live in an age where immigrants are getting the blame for crimes before we even know who has carried it out.

Its being stirred up by the likes of farage who actually wants another Southport to happen

 

 

Aye but that's how they sold it & that's why people voted for it.

 

There needs to be an open discussion about why there is so much immigration and if we need that much, an open discussion about why.

 

All your average Joe in the street sees is his city being full of Chinese students & adverts about Allah on bus stops. Him being squeezed to fuck financially doesn't help.

[Arniepie]

13 minutes ago, Mook said:

 

Aye but that's how they sold it & that's why people voted for it.

 

There needs to be an open discussion about why there is so much immigration and if we need that much, an open discussion about why.

 

All your average Joe in the street sees is his city being full of Chinese students & adverts about Allah on bus stops. Him being squeezed to fuck financially doesn't help.

defo but I just think in the current climate its impossible

[Mook]

11 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

defo but I just think in the current climate its impossible

 

Personally, I think it's the only sensible option.

[littletedwest]

Funny how the only promise that Labour won't break is the one about raising taxes.

[Bjornebye]

15 minutes ago, Mook said:

 

Personally, I think it's the only sensible option.

What’s your sensible opinion on it? May as well open up the discussion properly. It’s a fair topic because it’s a burning one that certain political people have used to gain support. And certain politicians have lost support over. 

[HazelyCosmicJove]

12 minutes ago, Mook said:

 

Aye but that's how they sold it & that's why people voted for it.

 

There needs to be an open discussion about why there is so much immigration and if we need that much, an open discussion about why.

 

All your average Joe in the street sees is his city being full of Chinese students & adverts about Allah on bus stops. Him being squeezed to fuck financially doesn't help.

I think Arnie is partly right - Brexit was not just about immigration but it was a factor. The issue was Freedom of Movement which meant that anyone in the EU could just come here whenever they wanted for as long as they wanted. There were no records kept of who came in from the EU and who left. I think the initial estimate for the EUSS scheme was about 3.5m, it ended up with 8.2m applications and 5.7m people being given a status (meaning they could stay). This included 1.4m Romanians yet the 2021 census indicated that there were only 550K illustrates the issue.

[Arniepie]

2 minutes ago, HazelyCosmicJove said:

I think Arnie is partly right - Brexit was not just about immigration but it was a factor. The issue was Freedom of Movement which meant that anyone in the EU could just come here whenever they wanted for as long as they wanted. There were no records kept of who came in from the EU and who left. I think the initial estimate for the EUSS scheme was about 3.5m, it ended up with 8.2m applications and 5.7m people being given a status (meaning they could stay). This included 1.4m Romanians yet the 2021 census indicated that there were only 550K illustrates the issue.

they sold it to red wall types that brexit would solve immigration. Farage actually said those exact words.

it was a scam. 

[Mook]

9 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

What’s your sensible opinion on it? May as well open up the discussion properly. It’s a fair topic because it’s a burning one that certain political people have used to gain support. And certain politicians have lost support over. 

 

I'm all for immigration but perhaps not to the extent we are seeing at the moment. I don't think it is healthy for a number of reasons but then again, I'm just some dickhead in the street. I'm not even sure if my opinion is particularly sensible.

 

The political class are the ones who need to be having a transparent conversation with the public about why immigration is so high & if it's to our benefit, they should be explaining why to fan the flames. Personally, I think it's generally about the bottom line, as usual.

[Bjornebye]

1 minute ago, Mook said:

 

I'm all for immigration but perhaps not to the extent we are seeing at the moment. I don't think it is healthy for a number of reasons but then again, I'm just some dickhead in the street. I'm not even sure if my opinion is particularly sensible.

 

The political class are the ones who need to be having a transparent conversation with the public about why immigration is so high & if it's to our benefit, they should be explaining why to fan the flames. Personally, I think it's generally about the bottom line, as usual.

I do think there is a hell of a lot of misinformation. GB News etc using stock photos of boats of migrants in the med claiming they’re in channel, wild speculation about nationality any time there is a crime, intentionally ignoring white crimes to focus on crimes committed by a different colour etc. Racism is ingrained in society and those who benefit from it know just how to pull them strings. 
 

There is a huge problem in this country of huge underspending on key stuff like schools, hospitals, housing and of course prisons. But it’s easy to siphon money away and blame immigration. 
 

Not sure what the solution is to the channel crossings but the rhetoric that it’s a UK problem and not far worse (if that’s the right word) in European countries is a disgrace. It just fans the hatred. 
 

The fucking RNLI getting pelters daily for doing this either job. A charity that doesn’t get funded by the government, people risking their lives for some fat gammon to call them a taxi service. 

[Jairzinho]

Make the life of the average person less shit and they'll be less likely to be drawn towards the Reform propaganda about immigrants and whatever else.

 

Labour are going to almost nothing for five years bar creating perfect conditions for far right cuntery to take over.

 

I think as many have alluded to on this thread, that's it for a lot on the left or even centre left. They won't be guilt tripped into voting for this party again. 

 

 

[Arniepie]

whilst there should be a healthy debate around immigration,the reason why we have a record number of foodbanks is nothing to do with people coming here on boats  

[Mook]

18 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

I do think there is a hell of a lot of misinformation. GB News etc using stock photos of boats of migrants in the med claiming they’re in channel, wild speculation about nationality any time there is a crime, intentionally ignoring white crimes to focus on crimes committed by a different colour etc. Racism is ingrained in society and those who benefit from it know just how to pull them strings. 
 

There is a huge problem in this country of huge underspending on key stuff like schools, hospitals, housing and of course prisons. But it’s easy to siphon money away and blame immigration. 
 

Not sure what the solution is to the channel crossings but the rhetoric that it’s a UK problem and not far worse (if that’s the right word) in European countries is a disgrace. It just fans the hatred. 
 

The fucking RNLI getting pelters daily for doing this either job. A charity that doesn’t get funded by the government, people risking their lives for some fat gammon to call them a taxi service. 

 

I'm not talking about racism, xenophobia or small boat crossings though.

 

I'm talking about the actual number of people coming into the country each year, about infrastructure & about what @Jairzinho is saying. If people are becoming poorer & poorer and see this huge change in demographic over a short period of time, they are going to react negatively.

 

This is why we need to have a transparent message from the politicians on what has become a make or break subject for them.

[Bjornebye]

3 minutes ago, Mook said:

 

I'm not talking about racism, xenophobia or small boat crossings though.

 

I'm talking about the actual number of people coming into the country each year, about infrastructure & about what @Jairzinho is saying. If people are becoming poorer & poorer and see this huge change in demographic over a short period of time, they are going to react negatively.

 

This is why we need to have a transparent message from the politicians on what has become a make or break subject for them.

And that’s my point exactly. We don’t get a transparent message that many of those cunts understand. They choose to believe the false rhetoric and that creates the blame culture. 
 

The country is on its arse and it’s mainly down to the same party who have pushed this immigration stuff to the fore to create division and win votes to keep their donors happy. It’s a shit cake from top to bottom and immigration is easy to blame. 
 

Is immigration a real problem on the ground? Does it really affect people’s lives negatively? Does an advert with about allah on a bus stop really impact the cost of food in the supermarkets? Do Chinese students increase your fuel bills? The answer to both those questions is no. Of course they don’t but either subliminally or directly people are being pointed in that direction. The rage in the riots last summer weren’t just racism there was anger at years of a system making the lives of many completely shit and those in charge of things that can actually help make our lives easier want that anger directed away form themselves. 
 

As for immigration numbers and stuff I’ve not seen a single piece of credible data that tells me that the economy is suffering as a result of people coming to this country. Chinese students for example bring a fortune into the country. They might block my path waking down the road the slow arse dopey twats but without them Liverpool’s university’s wouldn’t be anywhere near as big or good and the economy in the city would take a hit. 
 

Name the 5 main issues with immigration. I think you’ll struggle not to mention the division it causes because of those in power in one of them. Happy for you or anyone to prove me wrong. 

[Arniepie]

2 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

And that’s my point exactly. We don’t get a transparent message that many of those cunts understand. They choose to believe the false rhetoric and that creates the blame culture. 
 

The country is on its arse and it’s mainly down to the same party who have pushed this immigration stuff to the fore to create division and win votes to keep their donors happy. It’s a shit cake from top to bottom and immigration is easy to blame. 
 

Is immigration a real problem on the ground? Does it really affect people’s lives negatively? Does an advert with about allah on a bus stop really impact the cost of food in the supermarkets? Do Chinese students increase your fuel bills? The answer to both those questions is no. Of course they don’t but either subliminally or directly people are being pointed in that direction. The rage in the riots last summer weren’t just racism there was anger at years of a system making the lives of many completely shit and those in charge of things that can actually help make our lives easier want that anger directed away form themselves. 
 

As for immigration numbers and stuff I’ve not seen a single piece of credible data that tells me that the economy is suffering as a result of people coming to this country. Chinese students for example bring a fortune into the country. They might block my path waking down the road the slow arse dopey twats but without them Liverpool’s university’s wouldn’t be anywhere near as big or good and the economy in the city would take a hit. 
 

Name the 5 main issues with immigration. I think you’ll struggle not to mention the division it causes because of those in power in one of them. Happy for you or anyone to prove me wrong. 

people are more angry about a fictional show featuring a white "villan"than the tories using a pandemic to make themselves rich

[Bjornebye]

1 minute ago, Arniepie said:

people are more angry about a fictional show featuring a white "villan"than the tories using a pandemic to make themselves rich

The new Snow White is “woke” because Snow White isn’t played by a white Caucasian girl. Fucking mental. 
 

But Mook is right, this is about immigration itself. The gammon element does come into it but I’m sure there are other things that can be discussed. It just pisses me off how fucking vile some people are 

[Mook]

4 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

And that’s my point exactly. We don’t get a transparent message that many of those cunts understand.

 

That is precisely the point I've been making.

[Arniepie]

16 minutes ago, Mook said:

 

I'm not talking about racism, xenophobia or small boat crossings though.

 

I'm talking about the actual number of people coming into the country each year, about infrastructure & about what @Jairzinho is saying. If people are becoming poorer & poorer and see this huge change in demographic over a short period of time, they are going to react negatively.

 

This is why we need to have a transparent message from the politicians on what has become a make or break subject for them.

yet without immigration the NHS and care sector would collapse

 

I think the problem comes in when economic times are tough,throughout history, the "other" has always been the group to blame.

[Arniepie]

1 minute ago, Mook said:

 

That is precisely the point I've been making.

I think johnthan pie made the point a while ago that if a politician stood up and actually said..we need immigration for this country to survive,in the curent climate,It would be political suicide 

[Mook]

Just now, Arniepie said:

yet without immigration the NHS and care sector would collapse

 

I think the problem comes in when economic times are tough,throughout history, the "other" has always been the group to blame.

 

As I said, I'm all for immigration but the net figure last year was over 700,000 people coming in, I don't think that is sustainable personally & if it is, the politicians should be explaining why it is.

[Bjornebye]

2 minutes ago, Mook said:

 

That is precisely the point I've been making.

Labour have announced figures showing “illegals” refused entry or sent back but still “woke” Starmer and “Labour” want us all having migrants living in our houses… 

 

Has anyone genuinely got 5 reasons why immigration is a negative? I’m curious what I’m missing and I’m sure I am missing things. Albanian drug gangs that’s one maybe? But we’ve always had drug gangs. 

[Mook]

3 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Labour have announced figures showing “illegals” refused entry or sent back but still “woke” Starmer and “Labour” want us all having migrants living in our houses… 

 

Has anyone genuinely got 5 reasons why immigration is a negative? I’m curious what I’m missing and I’m sure I am missing things. Albanian drug gangs that’s one maybe? But we’ve always had drug gangs. 

 

I'm not saying it's negative at all, I'm saying it's too high.

[Arniepie]

3 minutes ago, Mook said:

 

As I said, I'm all for immigration but the net figure last year was over 700,000 people coming in, I don't think that is sustainable personally & if it is, the politicians should be explaining why it is.

I honestly think its because its impossible to do so 

There is absolutely no argument that we shouldn’t be having adult conversation on the pros and cons of immigration but we live in a country where 5 million people think the issue can be solved by "turning the boats back" in the channel.

[Mook]

3 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

I honestly think its because its impossible to do so 

There is absolutely no argument that we shouldn’t be having adult conversation on the pros and cons of immigration but we live in a country where 5 million people think the issue can be solved by "turning the boats back" in the channel.

 

Why is it impossible for a politician to say, 'Having a net figure of 700,000 people coming into the country each year is sustainable because of reasons a, b, c & d'?

[Bjornebye]

9 minutes ago, Mook said:

 

I'm not saying it's negative at all, I'm saying it's too high.

I’m not saying you are mate. No labels at anyone in this discussion at all. I just wonder if anyone can genuinely give reasons against immigration.

 

I suppose the security threat is one for unvetted people. 

[Arniepie]

Just now, Mook said:

 

Why is it impossible for a politician to say, 'Having a net figure of 700,000 people coming into the country each year is sustainable because of reasons a, b, c & d'?

Because a huge chunk of people in this country want us to stop immigration completely

rupert lowe was arguing last week that if an immigrant commits a crime ,their entire family should be deported