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I read a thing once where coppers were doing their nut about CSI dramas, because jurors felt like there should be dna or whatever for everything otherwise it's bollocks, which isn't the case. 

 

That's how they caught people before 1982, with shoe leather, caffeine, cigarettes and just the right amount of threats and violence.

 

She's gone, get over it.

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1 hour ago, Section_31 said:

I read a thing once where coppers were doing their nut about CSI dramas, because jurors felt like there should be dna or whatever for everything otherwise it's bollocks, which isn't the case. 

 

That's how they caught people before 1982, with shoe leather, caffeine, cigarettes and just the right amount of threats and violence.

 

She's gone, get over it.

Just one more thing...

So tell me, how did the Champagne cork end up under the fireguard from your angle?

colombo.jpeg

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Fucking Internet.

A doctor whose evidence was instrumental in convicting Britain’s most prolific child killer Lucy Letby has revealed he is being targeted by her supporters.

Neonatal expert Dewi Evans said he has been compared to the Nazi doctor Josef Mengele and that vexatious complaints have been made about him to the General Medical Council (GMC) since he appeared in court to give evidence for prosecutors. He is now urging police to investigate 25 more incidents potentially link to Letby.

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11 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Fucking Internet.

A doctor whose evidence was instrumental in convicting Britain’s most prolific child killer Lucy Letby has revealed he is being targeted by her supporters.

Neonatal expert Dewi Evans said he has been compared to the Nazi doctor Josef Mengele and that vexatious complaints have been made about him to the General Medical Council (GMC) since he appeared in court to give evidence for prosecutors. He is now urging police to investigate 25 more incidents potentially link to Letby.


 

Christ. Idiots 

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26 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Fucking Internet.

A doctor whose evidence was instrumental in convicting Britain’s most prolific child killer Lucy Letby has revealed he is being targeted by her supporters.

Neonatal expert Dewi Evans said he has been compared to the Nazi doctor Josef Mengele and that vexatious complaints have been made about him to the General Medical Council (GMC) since he appeared in court to give evidence for prosecutors. He is now urging police to investigate 25 more incidents potentially link to Letby.


Fucking Code.

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  • 1 month later...

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/16/evidence-in-first-lucy-letby-trial-was-incorrect-cps-admits
 

Evidence presented in the first trial of Lucy Letby showing which staff came in and out of the baby unit she worked on was incorrect, the Crown Prosecution Service has acknowledged.

 

The nurse was convicted last year of murdering seven babies and attempting to kill six others at the Countess of Chester hospital in north-west England. Letby, the worst child serial killer in British history, is serving 14 whole-life sentences, meaning she will never be released from prison.

 

A retrial at Manchester crown court last month found the 34-year-old from Hereford guilty of the attempted murder of another child, known as Baby K.

 

During the retrial, Nick Johnson KC, prosecuting, told the court that door-swipe data, showing which nurses and doctors were entering and exiting the intensive care ward, had been “mislabelled”.

 

The Crown Prosecution Service told the Telegraph that the discrepancy discovered was related to one door in the neonatal intensive care unit and that it had been corrected for the retrial.

 

A spokesperson for the Mersey-Cheshire Crown Prosecution Service said: “The CPS can confirm that accurate door-swipe data was presented in the retrial.”

 

David Davis, the Conservative MP, has written to Sarah Hammond, chief crown prosecutor of Mersey-Cheshire CPS, asking her to “urgently make clear” what timing errors were made during the first trial and how they related to the prosecution’s case.

 

Davis, who is planning to bring a parliamentary debate after the summer recess, said: “The door-swipe data is clearly vital to knowing which nurse was where at one point in time, and this in turn was vital to the prosecution’s case in the first trial.

 

“It is therefore essential that the CPS makes it plain whether those errors occurred throughout any of the evidence of the first trial.”

 

In the initial trial, the prosecution said Dr Ravi Jayaram, a consultant, had discovered Letby standing over Baby K at 3.50am on 17 February 2016. The baby was deteriorating and its breathing tube had been dislodged.

 

The prosecution said door-swipe data showed that the baby’s designated nurse had left the intensive care unit at 3.47am. But the data was amended in the retrial to show the nurse had returned at that time, meaning Letby was not alone.

 

During the retrial, the prosecution and the defence accepted that it was a genuine mistake, and the nurse was convicted of the attempted murder of Baby K.

 

Letby faced a three-week retrial on the single count of attempted murder, which she denied, after the jury in her original trial last year was unable to reach a verdict.

 

A public inquiry led by Lady Justice Kathryn Thirlwall will begin in September into how Letby was able to continue working with babies despite the concerns of senior doctors who connected her to a number of suspicious incidents.

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgdxq2l7kvo
 

A group of experts have asked the government to postpone or alter the public inquiry into the Lucy Letby case over concerns about the way evidence was presented to her trial.

 

Letby was sentenced to 15 whole life terms after being convicted of killing seven babies and trying to kill seven more while working at the Countess of Chester Hospital between June 2015 and June 2016.

 

Lady Justice Thirlwall is due to open a public inquiry into what happened and the hospital's response at Liverpool Town Hall on 10 September.

 

In a letter, 24 neonatal experts said the natural assumption that the nurse was a murderer may mean "alternative, potentially complex causes" for the deaths were not examined and "important lessons" were missed.

 

The letter, which was quoted in The Guardian and confirmed by the BBC, said the group had concerns over the way statistics and the science around newborn babies were presented to the jury at Letby's first trial.

 

One area of concern was a chart shown to the jury which showed that Letby was present on the hospital's neonatal unit for all the murders and attempted murders.

 

However, it has since been claimed that there were six other deaths on the unit in the same period when Letby was not present.

'Highly complex case'

The group said making the natural assumption, following the convictions, that [Letby] was a murderer may lead to "a failure in understanding and examining alternative, potentially complex causes for the deaths, thus missing important lessons".

 

"Possible negligent deaths that were presumed to be murders could result in an incomplete investigation of the management response to the crisis," they added.

 

Warwick University's Prof Jane Hutton, an expert in medical data who signed the letter, told the BBC that in her opinion the work behind the statistics presented to the jury "appears not to have been done in the way that it should be".

 

She said a police statement suggested "the work was done with Lucy Letby in mind, which is completely inappropriate".

 

"In a highly complex case like this, there are very high standards and it’s not clear whether they’ve been followed," she said.

 

She said she and other members of the Royal Statistical Society had offered to give evidence to the Thirlwall Inquiry and had been told it would consider whether their evidence was "relevant".

 

Judges have denied Letby leave to appeal the convictions at her original trial.

 

A spokesperson for the Thirlwall Inquiry told the BBC it would begin as planned on 10 September and would "follow the terms of reference set by the secretary of state".

Cheshire Police declined to comment.

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https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/sep/03/i-am-evil-i-did-this-lucy-letbys-so-called-confessions-were-written-on-advice-of-counsellors

 

Scribbled notes by the neonatal nurse Lucy Letby, used to help convict her of murdering seven babies, were written on the advice of professionals as a way of dealing with extreme stress, the Guardian has learned.

 

The notes were relied on as amounting to a confession by the prosecution during her first trial and in the court of appeal, but sources close to the case said they were produced after counselling sessions as part of a therapeutic process in which she was advised to write down her troubling thoughts and feelings.

 

Densely written on Post-it notes and a torn sheet of paper, they were overwritten in places and sometimes highlighted in capitals. They included the words: “I am evil I did this,” “I killed them on purpose because I am not good enough to care for them and I am a horrible evil person,” and “hate.”

 

The prosecution used the notes to help build the case against Letby, ending the opening speech highlighting the phrase: “I am evil I did this.” Throughout the trial the jury was repeatedly reminded of that statement, and encouraged to interpret the notes literally.

 

But in the same notes Letby also said: “Not good enough”, “Why me?”, “I haven’t done anything wrong”, “Police investigation slander discrimination victimisation”.

 

Now widely referred to in the media as the confession notes, they were written after some of her colleagues started suspecting her and also referenced her family and pets, colleagues at work, and described repeated suicidal thoughts: “Kill myself right now”, “help”, “despair panic fear lost”, “I feel very alone and scared”.

 

There have been mounting questions in recent weeks over the safety of Letby’s conviction, against the backdrop of a public inquiry that is set to begin receiving evidence next week. A group of leading experts have called on the government to postpone or change the terms of reference of the inquiry over these concerns, including questions about some of the evidence presented at the trial.

 

Sources close to the case have told the Guardian that the Countess of Chester hospital’s own head of occupational health and wellbeing, Kathryn de Beger, encouraged Letby to write down her feelings as a way of coping with extreme stress. Letby’s Chester GP also advised her to write down thoughts she was struggling to process, according to these sources.

 

David Wilson, a professor of criminology at Birmingham City University, who specialises in serial killers, said in his view the so-called confession notes were “meaningless” and had no value as evidence, particularly if they had been written as part of counselling. “Many people will say things when they are under stress and feeling bereft, that seem to imply one thing but mean nothing at all, other than reflecting the underlying stress.”

 

“I always thought Letby’s notes were meaningless as evidence. If they were written as part of therapy you can underline that point three times and write it in bold and capital letters,” he added.

 

Letby was convicted last August of murdering seven babies and attempting to murder six others. In a retrial that ended in July she was convicted of attempting to murder a seventh. The notes did not feature in Letby’s appeal application, which was rejected.

 

The prosecution’s presentation of the notes was a key “gotcha moment”, according to Wilson. From his experience of trials, such moments tended to set the narrative for the whole proceedings. He believed they could have been very influential on the jury, especially when other evidence was technical and hard to understand, he said. Such moments “catch the jury’s attention and once you’ve caught it, it is really hard in our adversarial legal system to present alternatives successfully”, he added.

 

The notes were written at some point between July 2016, after she had been taken off the ward, and her arrest in July 2018. During this period she had been removed from her nursing duties after a cluster of deaths. She was told not to talk to most of her colleagues and so felt isolated and distressed, according to sources.

 

Nursing sources have said Letby was aware that senior consultants were talking openly about there being a serial killer on the unit and that gossip was pointing at her as someone who was on shift for many of the deaths.

 

Journalling, or writing down disturbing thoughts, is encouraged in general psychotherapy, according to Richard Curen, the chair of the Forensic Psychotherapy Society, who has worked as an expert witness and with victims and offenders for 25 years. “Doodling, journalling is a way of taking control of your thoughts. I don’t think it relates to a confession of any kind,” he said.

 

He added that Letby’s response on the notes in court was “robust, and seems right – she wrote down how she was being made to feel”.

 

“It’s useful to put words on paper to short-circuit overthinking when there’s a whirlpool of really confusing and disturbing thoughts going round and round in your head,” he said. “Once they are externalised you can maybe put them to one side and carry on with what needs your attention.”

 

De Beger gave Letby counselling over several sessions as part of support arranged by the hospital. Letby’s notes refer repeatedly to De Beger and to Bergerac, which appears to derive from the sound of her name.

 

The notes also mention her cats, Tigger and Smudge, her dog, Whiskey, and Tiny Boy, thought initially by investigators to be a reference to babies she killed but in fact her nickname for the small Yorkshire cross terrier dog, according to the sources close to the case.

 

Asked about the notes during her trial, Letby said she had always written things down to help understand her feelings, and that they were random thoughts. She said she was questioning herself and whether she had unintentionally done harm by not knowing enough or not being a good enough nurse, because of what was being said about her by doctors.

 

She denied in her first trial that the notes meant she killed or harmed babies. She said De Beger was “someone she was seeing” for support. The fact that writing the notes had been advised as part of counselling was not mentioned in court.

 

The defence argued during the trial that the notes represented Letby’s anguished state of mind when she was accused of killing babies and not “guilt”. “Anguish not guilt. A young woman who trained hard to be a nurse … who loved what she did, and found she was being blamed for the deaths of the babies she cared for,” the defence counsel Ben Myers told the jury. But no expert forensic psychologists were called to give evidence on how to interpret the notes.

 

The Countess of Chester hospital said it could not comment while the inquiry and further investigations were ongoing.

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1 hour ago, Strontium said:

 

It's too bad the old thread got deleted. Some of us were in on the ground floor of what is shaping up to be the biggest miscarriage of justice in British legal history.

Jesus, mate, one way or another something fucking monstrous has happened here.  There's a place for "Everybody look at me, I was right" and that place is the FF.

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So the hospital directed Letby to write these notes, and what, have conveniently forgotten to tell the prosecution and defence that they told her to write these notes?

 

Haha, fucking hell. There are so many holes in these convictions, the defence should be charged with not being able to provide any sort of decent defence.

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4 hours ago, Strontium said:

 

It's too bad the old thread got deleted. Some of us were in on the ground floor of what is shaping up to be the biggest miscarriage of justice in British legal history.


how can you say that when you have Hillsborough and the post office scandal?   

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12 minutes ago, stringvest said:


how can you say that when you have Hillsborough and the post office scandal?   

Birmingham Six

Guildford Four

etc

 

British legal history has got a fair few grotesque miscarriages of justice.

But the important thing is to be one of the cool kids who were "in on the ground floor".

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4 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Birmingham Six

Guildford Four

etc

 

British legal history has got a fair few grotesque miscarriages of justice.

But the important thing is to be one of the cool kids who were "in on the ground floor".


I’ve always said Stronts is in on the ground floor.  Or is that the bottom shelf? 

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4 hours ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Jesus, mate, one way or another something fucking monstrous has happened here.  There's a place for "Everybody look at me, I was right" and that place is the FF.


Strontz being right is all that matters here. Anywhere. Even if he isn’t as long as he can satisfy himself with some sort of “gotcha” he’ll be skipping. 

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3 hours ago, skend04 said:

So the hospital directed Letby to write these notes, and what, have conveniently forgotten to tell the prosecution and defence that they told her to write these notes?

 

Haha, fucking hell. There are so many holes in these convictions, the defence should be charged with not being able to provide any sort of decent defence.


If she gets away with it it will be down to a completely shoddy trial and not the fact she’s innocent. 

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Thing that makes me wary about this is it seems to be the 15 minute city/anti-vax crowd that are largely interested in it. Maybe she discovered something about big pharma and the legacy media and needed to be silenced. 

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9 hours ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Birmingham Six

Guildford Four

etc

 

British legal history has got a fair few grotesque miscarriages of justice.

But the important thing is to be one of the cool kids who were "in on the ground floor".

And Timothy Evans.

And Stefan Kiszko.

And the Carl Bridgewater four

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6 hours ago, Fugitive said:

Code thinks she innocent and that makes me even more convinced of her guilt.

It's basically like Brexit.

You have a view, could be persuaded either way on the evidence and then you look at the staunch proponents from the side you are a bit iffy about and realise that they are the real mental cunts who you know you wouldn't want anywhere near you in the trenches and have personality disorders.

And then you are certain you are on the right side.

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