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Is Trent Really Worth It?


The Trent Problem   

76 members have voted

  1. 1. Is TAA worth building a team around?

    • Yes
      49
    • No
      27


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Not sure wanting to play attacking, progressive footy is dogmatic per se but I agree that would be at Klopp's core as a manager.

He has been able to do that through his career with different tactical setups and squad strengths.

There is no question this side now is far more measured and controlled by design than the one of a few years back.

Whether that is a progression he has made or is a reaction to how his players are changing (core players aging, new ones coming in)

who knows.

Certainly if he wanted to try and play heavy metal he could.

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14 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

 

That's not me, that's Stacks.

But the fact you have learned that in the few months you have been on here provides some hope.

 

Onto reading - yea, there is zero chance he would play that role for Guardiola - for a number of reasons.

 

As above the tactical differences between these two players and anyone we have, barring maybe Gomez on his best day makes this comment strange.

 

 

He is out of contract next year so the decision may be out of our hands tbh.

I have said a number of times I think he will get a shot in mid not walk into it. It could well take him- and the side a full season to see if it pans out. Honestly if he ended up 90% of the midfielder our current #8 is that would help.

 

 

Once again the whole of that post is gibberish but I'll pick up on point 2.

 

Why cant Trent play the same role as Stones in a Guardiola team?

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7 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

Klopp is very dogmatic. He has a clear idea of how he wants to play football, and his teams always try to play that way.

Klopp is the most attacking manager in the league. If you can't see that there is no hope. Klopp's whole philosophy is we will make more chances than you. Guardiola's is  we will give up less chances than you. It's exactly the reason we are a brilliant watch and a City game is boring as fuck.

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3 minutes ago, Smell The Glove said:

Once again the whole of that post is gibberish but I'll pick up on point 2.

 

Why cant Trent play the same role as Stones in a Guardiola team?

 

Because Guardiola would never even consider it. Ever.

 

Besides that City uses that extra man far differently than we do tactically - the stuff Trent is good at is not what he is looking for from that position.

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5 minutes ago, Smell The Glove said:

Klopp is the most attacking manager in the league. If you can't see that there is no hope. Klopp's whole philosophy is we will make more chances than you. Guardiola's is  we will give up less chances than you. It's exactly the reason we are a brilliant watch and a City game is boring as fuck.

 

He's just spent the last hour saying that.

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Playing a system/style with the two full backs as our most creative players while the midfield sacrificed themselves to facilitate it... using Firmino as a false nine when previously he had Lewandowski up front.... signing Thiago to replace Wijnaldum and evolving to a more possession based style than he played previously... moving Trent away from the most attacking right back in the world and turning him into a hybrid full back/midfielder... bringing in Nunez to replace the polar opposite styled Firmino.

 

Yeah I take it back, you're right, he's dogmatic as fuck.

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15 minutes ago, dave u said:

Playing a system/style with the two full backs as our most creative players while the midfield sacrificed themselves to facilitate it... using Firmino as a false nine when previously he had Lewandowski up front.... signing Thiago to replace Wijnaldum and evolving to a more possession based style than he played previously... moving Trent away from the most attacking right back in the world and turning him into a hybrid full back/midfielder... bringing in Nunez to replace the polar opposite styled Firmino.

 

Yeah I take it back, you're right, he's dogmatic as fuck.

The non negotiable idea with Klopp is counter press and an adherance to the organization/patterns around that pressing, Dave. The setup or styles of players he wants or evolves into wanting throughout the years is not the same thing.

 

That's my point; we need a manager with a non negotiable idea. And with those managers, there are players who invariably will not do what they want. I will bet that Alonso, as someone who is showing a lot of promise as a manager, is someone who will not compromise on his big idea.

 

There's loads of managers out there who are blaggers like ten Hag or Rodgers, who pretend they have a style of play, but it actually changes with the wind. That is not what you want. You need someone dogmatic.

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We need a manager who can organise and get the best out of the players as a team.  And just as importantly, isn't wedded to one way of playing.  Dogma introduces artificial constraint, and shouldn't ever get a look in.  Klopp is not dogmatic; he has principles, but he retains flexibility in his approach - all this 'heavy metal football' nonsense is shallow-minded pap.  

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2 hours ago, Smell The Glove said:

You were the thread starter. What would you do with Trent? Sell him? Find a place for his talents?


I’d give him a kick up the arse and tell him to go back to what made him great. An attacking right back with loads of energy, great deliveries and shitloads of assists.  
 

As for selling him, I’m not a football manager but you can already see how it’s gonna be a big decision for the next guy. His contract situation makes things interesting.
 

My heart says I want him to stay, and I think he will, but I don’t think this version of Trent is worthy of a bump in wages, given he’s already on big money and if a worthwhile offer comes in maybe it’s worth considering. 
 

FWIW, I think we’ll take the money the Saudis are offering for Mo this summer so I don’t think we’ll be looking to sell anyone else. 
 

I want more from Trent than what he’s currently offering. As has been said, his attitude and application are not what they used to be.  

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He needs to go or he’s going to end up being an Ozil style weight around the next managers neck.  If Klopp can’t get him to run or bother learning how to not just be a training cone when somebody runs at him with the ball I don’t know what hope any other manager has.

 

Playing him in midfield isn’t going to suddenly change this.  Neither will playing him in a back 3 in that weird style that Alonso is employing at the moment because they all involve put one leg in front of other at more than a snails pace.  Playing Bradley for a handful of games seems to have knocked sense into most of the fan base when it comes to just how downright lazy and arrogant he is.  I don’t think there’s ever been a footballer with his ability at this level of football with an attitude this bad to defending and learning/understanding that side of the game.  It’s basically nonexistent.  It’s a blessing he’s missing the final.

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1 hour ago, TheHowieLama said:

 

That's not me, that's Stacks.

But the fact you have learned that in the few months you have been on here provides some hope.

 

Onto reading - yea, there is zero chance he would play that role for Guardiola - for a number of reasons.

 

As above the tactical differences between these two players and anyone we have, barring maybe Gomez on his best day makes this comment strange.

 

 

He is out of contract next year so the decision may be out of our hands tbh.

I have said a number of times I think he will get a shot in mid not walk into it. It could well take him- and the side a full season to see if it pans out. Honestly if he ended up 90% of the midfielder our current #8 is that would help.

 

 

I've got no idea why you keep talking about Guardiola with our squad. I have been clearly talking about how Trent could fit in Xabi's. So if we went with Bradley and Robbo as wing backs. Konate, Trent and Virgil back 3 which allows Trent to move into midfield from there. I'm sure you have so you will know how Hincapie moves for Leverkusen. Just a variation on that. My last comment as I've said it enough. You must be mental to give up on the passing ability of Trent.

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5 minutes ago, The Guest said:

He needs to go or he’s going to end up being an Ozil style weight around the next managers neck.  If Klopp can’t get him to run or bother learning how to not just be a training cone when somebody runs at him with the ball I don’t know what hope any other manager has.

 

Playing him in midfield isn’t going to suddenly change this.  Neither will playing him in a back 3 in that weird style that Alonso is employing at the moment because they all involve put one leg in front of other at more than a snails pace.  Playing Bradley for a handful of games seems to have knocked sense into most of the fan base when it comes to just how downright lazy and arrogant he is.  I don’t think there’s ever been a footballer with his ability at this level of football with an attitude this bad to defending and learning/understanding that side of the game.  It’s basically nonexistent.  It’s a blessing he’s missing the final.

Fucking hell. I was hoping to disappear from this thread

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2 hours ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

Xabi could humble Trent

 

 

 

I love Trent, I think sometimes his attitude seems weird. Some players just want to win no matter what at any cost and will run themselves into the ground, Gerrard is an example of that another scouse example is Rooney the winning just burns in them as players. Sometimes theres a half arsed feel about Trent. Honestly it could just be that's his general persona. Does he feel others should do his running for him, is he just tired of covering so much ground and getting shit for it because he just can't be everything everywhere.


I’d agree- I think that’s a case of a group that came through at a high level very early in their careers- Rashford, Lingaard, Trent, Sterling  etc.  Mainly the England brigade. They seem to lose a bit of desire/hunger. 
I think Klopp has kept Trent on the right track and surrounded him with the right staff/players with the right attitude.

I’m not sure Trent would have reached this level consistently under other managers 

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9 minutes ago, Dave D said:


I’d agree- I think that’s a case of a group that came through at a high level very early in their careers- Rashford, Lingaard, Trent, Sterling  etc.  Mainly the England brigade. They seem to lose a bit of desire/hunger. 
I think Klopp has kept Trent on the right track and surrounded him with the right staff/players with the right attitude.

I’m not sure Trent would have reached this level consistently under other managers 

Trent has a talent you just cannot buy. It's seeing a pass before every elite manager and defender realises it's on. To my mind only De Bruyne and Trent have this in the league. Does anybody complain about De Bruyne not doing his defensive work? He's fat with shit hair. Rodri does that. Find a way.

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2 hours ago, 3 Stacks said:

The non negotiable idea with Klopp is counter press and an adherance to the organization/patterns around that pressing, Dave. The setup or styles of players he wants or evolves into wanting throughout the years is not the same thing.

 

That's my point; we need a manager with a non negotiable idea. And with those managers, there are players who invariably will not do what they want. I will bet that Alonso, as someone who is showing a lot of promise as a manager, is someone who will not compromise on his big idea.

 

There's loads of managers out there who are blaggers like ten Hag or Rodgers, who pretend they have a style of play, but it actually changes with the wind. That is not what you want. You need someone dogmatic.

 

You can have a philosophy/style of play and still be flexible within it.

 

Alonso counter presses too, he's even said that the reason he plays possession football is so the counter press is more effective. He's got a similar philosophy to Klopp, they just go about it in slightly different ways.

 

The only reason I got involved in this thread was because of this notion that Alonso wouldn't allow long passing because Leverkusen play lots of short passes. I'm saying that he'd tweak his approach to suit the players he has, the league he's playing in and the opponents he's facing. Just as Klopp has done.

 

It's fairly insulting to Alonso to suggest he wouldn't have some flexibility while still implementing the overall philosophy and style he wants to play.

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22 minutes ago, dave u said:

 

You can have a philosophy/style of play and still be flexible within it.

 

Alonso counter presses too, he's even said that the reason he plays possession football is so the counter press is more effective. He's got a similar philosophy to Klopp, they just go about it in slightly different ways.

 

The only reason I got involved in this thread was because of this notion that Alonso wouldn't allow long passing because Leverkusen play lots of short passes. I'm saying that he'd tweak his approach to suit the players he has, the league he's playing in and the opponents he's facing. Just as Klopp has done.

 

It's fairly insulting to Alonso to suggest he wouldn't have some flexibility while still implementing the overall philosophy and style he wants 

Basically echoing what you've just said

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1 hour ago, dave u said:

 

You can have a philosophy/style of play and still be flexible within it.

 

Alonso counter presses too, he's even said that the reason he plays possession football is so the counter press is more effective. He's got a similar philosophy to Klopp, they just go about it in slightly different ways.

 

The only reason I got involved in this thread was because of this notion that Alonso wouldn't allow long passing because Leverkusen play lots of short passes. I'm saying that he'd tweak his approach to suit the players he has, the league he's playing in and the opponents he's facing. Just as Klopp has done.

 

It's fairly insulting to Alonso to suggest he wouldn't have some flexibility while still implementing the overall philosophy and style he wants to play.

I'll just stop because I've been fairly clear in what I meant and people are just focusing on what dogmatic means in a negative sense.

 

 

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