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Is Trent Really Worth It?


The Trent Problem   

76 members have voted

  1. 1. Is TAA worth building a team around?

    • Yes
      49
    • No
      27


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21 minutes ago, Smell The Glove said:

Trent has more to his locker than hitting diagonals. His passing range is sublime, long or short.

 

I have no idea if, and it's a big if, Alonso came here and played the same style. If he did then I think Trent coming out of a back 3 into midfield would suit him. He does it with Hincapie a little but that's more overlapping. Guardiola has changed from inverted full backs to having Walker Dias and Gvardiol making up a back 3 with Stones or Akanji moving into midfield. 

 

All I know is there are not many footballers who make me go fucking wow but Trent is one of them. His passing is too good.

His passing is really good. That said, if you're not playing very quick, vertical football, then it's not something that's compulsory and he'll be less effective.

 

It's not like I'm gonna say that we hoof it with him, but the long ball is a big part of our game when he's there, no doubt about it. Some managers won't want to play like that, and that's before you even talk about the questions around his position.

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1 minute ago, Captain Turdseye said:


Why is that?

Numerous reasons. System has been found out. Trent wants to change. 

 

We for 2 seasons were in my opinion the best team in the world. When you become that you eventually get worked out because other teams want to be that. 

 

You were the thread starter. What would you do with Trent? Sell him? Find a place for his talents?

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7 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

His passing is really good. That said, if you're not playing very quick, vertical football, then it's not something that's compulsory and he'll be less effective.

 

It's not like I'm gonna say that we hoof it with him, but the long ball is a big part of our game when he's there, no doubt about it. Some managers won't want to play like that, and that's before you even talk about the questions around his position.

You see I disagree that Trent is more suited to Klopp than Alonso for example. I think Trent in a Guardiola, Alonso, Luis Enrique side would thrive.

 

Klopp has a different philosophy and found a way to make Trent amazing in it. Its just wearing off now.

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3 minutes ago, Smell The Glove said:

You see I disagree that Trent is more suited to Klopp than Alonso for example. I think Trent in a Guardiola, Alonso, Luis Enrique side would thrive.

 

Klopp has a different philosophy and found a way to make Trent amazing in it. Its just wearing off now.

Doing what? Keeping possession?

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Stones has always ben a CB AND a midfielder. His whole career.

If you think Guardiola would ever entertain Trent at CB you ar.e deluded. He plays 4 CB's in that system for a rteason.

It's actually a worse shout to suggest he could do it here with our personnel - which would have Konate I guess as the nominal RB as Trent strides forward.

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Maybe Alonso doesn't play as many long passes at Leverkusen because he doesn't have anyone like Trent to play them? As one of the best to ever do it, I'd be amazed if he came in here and said to Trent (and Virgil for that matter) "we'll have none of that thank you". I reckon he'd be buzzing to have the opportunity to work with someone like Trent and to try to outdo him in training.

 

If Alonso came in he wouldn't just try and turn us into Leverkusen. He'd take the best bits from there, the best bits from his set up at Sociedad, look at the players now at his disposal and then come up with something that suits.

 

I've heard him talk about the short passing game and how the purpose of it is so that when they lose the ball in the opponents third everyone is already there to win it back and they aren't stretched, but when Trent is playing those long passes they invariably find their target and we aren;'t losing the ball, so it's irrelevant.

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I love Trent but he's getting on my tits. Again on Saturday he nonchalantly flicked the ball around the corner to a Burnley player. He doesn't seem to comprehend how damaging it can be to lose the ball in that area of the pitch with no right back, a left back high up the pitch and 2 CB's not expecting an experienced footballer to casually give the ball to the other team. I just hope the time he's punished for it is in the Euros, good luck to him recovering from the backlash. 

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3 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Stones has always ben a CB AND a midfielder. His whole career.

If you think Guardiola would ever entertain Trent at CB you ar.e deluded. He plays 4 CB's in that system for a rteason.

It's actually a worse shout to suggest he could do it here with our personnel - which would have Konate I guess as the nominal RB as Trent strides forward.

Before I waste my time answering any of that. None of what you wrote is what I said.

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2 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

^^^ of course he's not going to suggest stopping playing accurate, dangerous long stuff

 

In this conversation re: Alonso what is relevant is Trents quality in a tight short passing setup and moreso in his pressing to win it if it is lost.

 

Trent can do short, tight passing in his sleep. The pressing is something we'll have to see about as he hasn't really played enough in midfield for us to know.

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1 hour ago, Smell The Glove said:

Having Trent move into midfield from a back 3 would work like a dream in my opinion. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Smell The Glove said:

I think Trent coming out of a back 3 into midfield would suit him. He does it with Hincapie a little but that's more overlapping.

 

55 minutes ago, Smell The Glove said:

You have no idea if he's a good midfielder or not. 

 

51 minutes ago, Smell The Glove said:

If he's not a midfielder at all then why has Klopp moved him there at times this season?

 

15 minutes ago, Smell The Glove said:

Trent could do what Stones is doing now and more is the point I'm making. Stones is now moving into midfield from centre back. My personal opinion is that works for Trent.

 

7 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Stones has always ben a CB AND a midfielder. His whole career.

If you think Guardiola would ever entertain Trent at CB you are deluded. He plays 4 CB's in that system for a reason.

It's actually a worse shout to suggest he could do it here with our personnel - which would have Konate I guess as the nominal RB as Trent strides forward.

 

5 minutes ago, Smell The Glove said:

Before I waste my time answering any of that. None of what you wrote is what I said.

 

At this point, other than saying you think Trent is great I'm not sure what you are suggesting.

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Xabi could humble Trent

 

 

 

I love Trent, I think sometimes his attitude seems weird. Some players just want to win no matter what at any cost and will run themselves into the ground, Gerrard is an example of that another scouse example is Rooney the winning just burns in them as players. Sometimes theres a half arsed feel about Trent. Honestly it could just be that's his general persona. Does he feel others should do his running for him, is he just tired of covering so much ground and getting shit for it because he just can't be everything everywhere.

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4 minutes ago, dave u said:

 

Trent can do short, tight passing in his sleep. The pressing is something we'll have to see about as he hasn't really played enough in midfield for us to know.

 

They all can to great extent to most teams in this league.

It's the quality and timing of it to actually create against both an open side and a packed one that separates the men from the boys in the middle. Well that and some other stuff that I think Trent has questions around. Sure you know that.

As I have said a dozen times by now - I hope if he plays midfield he can prove his quality there is equal to his best times at RB.

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41 minutes ago, Smell The Glove said:

Why, do you not think he can keep possession?

 

You seem to think he could play as a CB in a back 3 or that he could play in a Guardiola type midfield, where you basically have to be a tactical and technical maestro in all aspects of midfield play.

 

What we've seen from Trent is that he is a fantastic crosser and forward and direct passer from deep positions. And for a few years he could play right back in an orthodox way and do that really well.

 

So based on that, I just don't really get what you see in Trent to be saying these things.

 

 

 

 

 

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18 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:
 
3 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

At this point, other than saying you think Trent is great I'm not sure what you are suggesting.

I know you like to portray yourself as being smarter than the average bear on here but it's beginning to look like reading is your achilles heel.

 

First of all I never mentioned anything about Guardiola here and our squad. It was Trent in his. Next Guardiola is playing full backs with Walker and Gvardiol. They morph into a back 3 when Stones or Akanji move forward into midfield. Alonso already plays a back 3 which turns into a back 4 when players move. That would suit Trent.

 

My position doesn't change. Trent has to be found a place. What's yours? Sell him?

 

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37 minutes ago, dave u said:

Maybe Alonso doesn't play as many long passes at Leverkusen because he doesn't have anyone like Trent to play them? As one of the best to ever do it, I'd be amazed if he came in here and said to Trent (and Virgil for that matter) "we'll have none of that thank you". I reckon he'd be buzzing to have the opportunity to work with someone like Trent and to try to outdo him in training.

 

If Alonso came in he wouldn't just try and turn us into Leverkusen. He'd take the best bits from there, the best bits from his set up at Sociedad, look at the players now at his disposal and then come up with something that suits.

 

I've heard him talk about the short passing game and how the purpose of it is so that when they lose the ball in the opponents third everyone is already there to win it back and they aren't stretched, but when Trent is playing those long passes they invariably find their target and we aren;'t losing the ball, so it's irrelevant.

 

You don't want a pragmatic manager, though, you want someone dogmatic. That's what Klopp and Guardiola are. 

 

It really worked with Klopp because no matter the formation or setup or club he was at, Klopp was always about attacking very quickly and always going forward, so Trent's passing is a real weapon in that style. 

 

If someone like Trent would fit in Alonso's overall footballing idea, then it will work but if he wouldn't, people shouldn't be surprised.

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22 minutes ago, Smell The Glove said:

I know you like to portray yourself as being smarter than the average bear on here 

 

 

That's not me, that's Stacks.

But the fact you have learned that in the few months you have been on here provides some hope.

 

22 minutes ago, Smell The Glove said:

First of all I never mentioned anything about Guardiola here and our squad. It was Trent in his. 

Onto reading - yea, there is zero chance he would play that role for Guardiola - for a number of reasons.

 

22 minutes ago, Smell The Glove said:

Next Guardiola is playing full backs with Walker and Gvardiol.

 

As above the tactical differences between these two players and anyone we have, barring maybe Gomez on his best day makes this comment strange.

 

22 minutes ago, Smell The Glove said:

What's yours? Sell him?

 

 

He is out of contract next year so the decision may be out of our hands tbh.

I have said a number of times I think he will get a shot in mid not walk into it. It could well take him- and the side a full season to see if it pans out. Honestly if he ended up 90% of the midfielder our current #8 is that would help.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

 

You don't want a pragmatic manager, though, you want someone dogmatic. That's what Klopp and Guardiola are. 

 

It really worked with Klopp because no matter the formation or setup or club he was at, Klopp was always about attacking very quickly and always going forward, so Trent's passing is a real weapon in that style. 

 

If someone like Trent would fit in Alonso's overall footballing idea, then it will work but if he wouldn't, people shouldn't be surprised.

 

That's just not true though. Klopp is not dogmatic at all. Sean Dyche is dogmatic, Klopp has a bit of pragmatism about him. The way we play now is different to how we played when Klopp first got here. You evolve, do things differently, add bits here and there depending on the players you have and their strengths and weaknesses. You don't just go "this is what I do, if you don't fit then I don't care that you're world class, you can fuck off"

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8 minutes ago, dave u said:

 

That's just not true though. Klopp is not dogmatic at all. Sean Dyche is dogmatic, Klopp has a bit of pragmatism about him. The way we play now is different to how we played when Klopp first got here. You evolve, do things differently, add bits here and there depending on the players you have and their strengths and weaknesses. You don't just go "this is what I do, if you don't fit then I don't care that you're world class, you can fuck off"

Klopp is very dogmatic. He has a clear idea of how he wants to play football, and his teams always try to play that way.

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