Barcelona Setting Fire to Their Future

[Colonel Bumcunt 808]

I'm sure they're doing what they can get away with for now in the knowledge that a Saudi buyer is waiting until it's all untenable.  The club will not go under, no chance.  

[Ne Moe Imya 3,663]

I actually think they will try to get the SuperLeague off the ground again.

 

That would make their sale of their future La Liga TV money make sense. Sell 10% of your league TV money, then join a new SuperLeague so that the La Liga contract is much less valuable.

 

No idea what their plan is if that goes as well as it did last time.

[Lee909 13,099]

No teams outside of the mancs,Barcelona,Real and Juve would get away with this salary deferral bollocks. Just opens the door for PSG and City to agree to pay players off so they leave on the cheap,foregoing wages which 100% won't be given via commercial deals

[Barrington Womble 11,145]

14 hours ago, an tha said:

Decent summary here.

 

Seems to be a right mess, and some right dodgy shite going on.

 

https://www.thesportsman.com/articles/raphinha-frenkie-de-jong-and-1bn-of-debt-barcelona-s-untenable-situation

I wonder if any of their loans are secured and people are still providing money to them as they know they will be able to take control of part (or all) of the club to keep them afloat. 

[Chairman Meow 4,612]

I can't understand why any player would want to go there right now either.

 

"Hey come and join us, but you can't sign for us until de Jong is sold and he is refusing to leave because we haven't paid his wages"

 

 

[VladimirIlyich 9,764]

20 hours ago, dockers_strike said:

Tony knows.

 

Here's an article by Wallace on them while also having a go at the ESL yet again.

 

The giant debt-zombie that is Barcelona lumbers onwards, mortgaging the future for the sake of the present, embarking on another summer of acquisitions of players it cannot truly afford, trying to survive long enough for the shape of the European game to perhaps change around it.

 

The sale of as much as 25 per cent of the club’s future television rights revenues for the next 20 years in return for up-front cash is connected to the arguments made in a courtroom in Luxembourg this week over the future of European football.

 

The signing of Raphinha from Leeds United, the two-year extension to the contract of Ousmane Dembele, the potential deal to sign Robert Lewandowski – all part of a high-risk position that is based largely on a punt on long-term change in football.

 

It is a major gamble for Barcelona and, to an extent, its president Joan Laporta, although he will likely be long gone if it all fails. Can they win the legal battle of the European Super League (ESL) in time to save themselves?

 

In the European Court of Justice this week, counsel for A22, the Spanish-registered company created as the legal entity for the once-doomed ESL, argued that Uefa’s monopoly on organising club competitions was illegal under European law. The EU’s Advocate-General will offer his advice on the merits of the case on December 15 and the judges will adopt a decision in the early part of next year. The proviso being that, in all but a few cases, the judges go with the recommendation.

 

If Uefa loses its exclusive right to organise competitions, “an iron fist” as the ESL’s counsel Miguel Odriozola described it, then the conversation as to how football will be remodelled by its most powerful clubs is once more open. For the rebel ESL three, Barcelona, Real Madrid and Juventus, no longer the fear of what Odriozola called “the desert voyage” – the financial death sentence of Champions League expulsion by Uefa. Instead the chance to take control of Champions League revenues or those of a new competition and, for Barcelona, a way out of a debt that could now be in excess of €1.5 billion.

 

A decision against Uefa would also uphold the ESL contract that the six Premier League rebels signed last year, with punitive penalties for withdrawal. Will they be obliged to pay up? Certainly, a liability of that size would be of interest to the creditors of the rebel ESL three to whom it would effectively be owed.

 

A new Super League will not generate fresh broadcast rights revenue around the world, it will simply cannibalise the rest. But for Barcelona, and Real Madrid, that has always been the plan. They have exhausted the revenue of their own leagues, and even the Uefa distribution model that rewards big clubs and historic performance is not enough for them. Their goal remains a competition they control, and the ECJ’s decision next year will be critical to that.

 

In the meantime, Barcelona are on life support. The sale of Frenkie de Jong to Manchester United, should it come to that, would provide only temporary respite. Barcelona sold 10 per cent of 20 years of future Liga rights to the bank Sixth Street, itself an ESL investor, for €207.5 million. Under Spanish accountancy law Barcelona can book that as revenue and will likely do so in order to declare a small profit in October’s financial results. The tax authorities, however, will see it for what it is: more debt.

 

Another 15 per cent of Barcelona’s future rights revenue is also to be sold to generate a further €300 million. All requires the approval of Goldman Sachs, which is the club’s biggest institutional creditor.

 

Lending for the rebuilding of Camp Nou and the debt refinancing last year puts the loans to the American investment bank alone at anywhere between €1.5 billion and €2 billion. For their part, Real Madrid have sold 30 per cent of 20 years of future stadium revenue to Sixth Street.

 

Real’s debt is still in excess of £1 billion when the liability for their stadium rebuild is considered. The problem is greater at Barcelona where the hole was dug by the previous president Josep Maria Bartomeu. With his sale of tomorrow to fund today, Laporta has done nothing more than continue to burrow.

 

Florentino Perez, the Real president, and his Liga counterpart Javier Tebas, cannot agree on much. But both will know that the league needs Barcelona to be strong for everyone to thrive and so the club is permitted to stagger on, booking loans as revenue, and somehow still compliant with financial fair play. 

 

Spain’s big two, as well as the rest, have staked the house on a continued rise in value of broadcast rights. Nothing will threaten that as much as a Real Madrid title procession every season.

Barcelona have pulled two of the levers available to finance themselves now. The third is the sale of 49 per cent of their merchandising operation. Can the club afford to commit so much future revenue to creditors? Can it afford not to? The club needs the funds to keep it competitive now.

 

For all the public disapproval, the Super League rebel three, along with A22, and the Spanish-based financiers Anas Laghrari and John Hahn, have committed to the legal battle to defeat Uefa. They seek to liberate, as they see it, the wealthiest clubs to create their own competition. They will soon announce a spokesperson to speak on behalf of the project they are creating. With each step the defeated husk of the Super League of April 2021 is being patched up, refined and adapted to clamber out the vault once more. 

 

The ESL is far from over. Next time there will be, the ESL says, no permanent members. The aim for the rebel three is to cast off the Uefa monopoly, as they see it, and one day create the competition that will earn them the share of the revenue they think they deserve. The decision is coming next year and none need a result more than Barcelona, where the future is being sold.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2022/07/16/debt-zombie-barcelona-can-saved-european-super-league/

The passage about Real Madrid's title procession being a threat to future growth of television rights could also be applied over here. Although now the PL have shit their pants they cant do anything to stop it. I'm guessing the Bundesliga tv deals already suffer through Bayern's domination too?

[Scott_M 6,850]

Xavi denied entry to the US for their tour due to previously visiting Iran. 

[TD_LFC 1,015]

10 hours ago, Colonel Bumcunt said:

I'm sure they're doing what they can get away with for now in the knowledge that a Saudi buyer is waiting until it's all untenable.  The club will not go under, no chance.  

As it stands they can't be bought by a Saudi or anyone else.

 

Laporta paid €125 million for the right to be Barca president and he can be ousted in 4 years by the members.

[HBenn 60]

4 hours ago, Chairman Meow said:

I can't understand why any player would want to go there right now either.

 

"Hey come and join us, but you can't sign for us until de Jong is sold and he is refusing to leave because we haven't paid his wages"

 

 

That we asked him to defer so we could buy players that we are currently looking to sell and to bring in players (which we have now just released) on initial lower wages which we promised would be increased significantly this coming season.

 

[Barrington Womble 11,145]

4 hours ago, TD_LFC said:

As it stands they can't be bought by a Saudi or anyone else.

 

Laporta paid €125 million for the right to be Barca president and he can be ousted in 4 years by the members.

But the club itself will have sufficient debt that if they can't pay, it surely opens itself to be taken over? Or they're allowed to go bust? 

[TD_LFC 1,015]

33 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

But the club itself will have sufficient debt that if they can't pay, it surely opens itself to be taken over? Or they're allowed to go bust? 

I guess it depends on what power the Socio's have and how much power/desire any administrator that got called in would have to wipe one of the biggest names in world football (and probably more importantly Spain/Catalunya) off the map.

 

Outside of the power being wrestled away from it's members I don't really see a situation where they relinquish the collective power and I don't see an administrator with the bollocks to make that kind of call.

 

The members own the club the winners of any election pay for the privilege of running the club (and the political power/influence that subsequently brings) and the club lurches between good and bad owners based on who promises the most attractive signings.

 

 

 

 

[Barrington Womble 11,145]

28 minutes ago, TD_LFC said:

I guess it depends on what power the Socio's have and how much power/desire any administrator that got called in would have to wipe one of the biggest names in world football (and probably more importantly Spain/Catalunya) off the map.

 

Outside of the power being wrestled away from it's members I don't really see a situation where they relinquish the collective power and I don't see an administrator with the bollocks to make that kind of call.

 

The members own the club the winners of any election pay for the privilege of running the club (and the political power/influence that subsequently brings) and the club lurches between good and bad owners based on who promises the most attractive signings.

 

 

 

 

I get the idea nobody wants to break them. But the money they owe now is not Spanish, so perhaps they're now more vulnerable as there's not the same reputational risk to anyone trying to call in the debt. Couldn't you just imagine some PE fund being happy to write off the 1bn they're owed in return for a 20-25% stake in the club, some influence in how it's run going forward? It's not a great deal different to them selling off percentage of revenue streams. They could hold up to some extent the model at Bayern. 

[TD_LFC 1,015]

1 minute ago, Barrington Womble said:

I get the idea nobody wants to break them. But the money they owe now is not Spanish, so perhaps they're now more vulnerable as there's not the same reputational risk to anyone trying to call in the debt. Couldn't you just imagine some PE fund being happy to write off the 1bn they're owed in return for a 20-25% stake in the club, some influence in how it's run going forward? It's not a great deal different to them selling off percentage of revenue streams. They could hold up to some extent the model at Bayern. 

They'll definitely sell off the rights to bits of the various elements of the club as they've started doing now. I just don't think you get to the point where it's owned in the majority to an outside owner like you see in the UK.

 

 

[Barrington Womble 11,145]

Just now, TD_LFC said:

They'll definitely sell off the rights to bits of the various elements of the club as they've started doing now. I just don't think you get to the point where it's owned in the majority to an outside owner like you see in the UK.

 

 

No, probably not. But I could very well see them losing up to 49%

[Ne Moe Imya 3,663]

They just announced Lewandowski.

 

So they sold a quarter of all their TV rights and merchandising for all of time so that they could stiff Frenkie de Jong on his wages and then bring in Kessie, Raphinha, and a 34 year old striker. Probably finish 3rd this season and go out in the quarterfinals of the CL.

 

Then what? I mean, if they had taken the summer off, sold some deadwood, accepted that there were a few lean years ahead, they could have built a squad to challenge on all fronts around Gavi/Pedri/de Jong/Fati by 2024 or 2025. Instead, they've put it all on red, and even if it hits and they win a trophy next season they'll be selling one of those players next summer to afford the next transfer binge.

 

Makes absolutely no sense what they're doing.

[Fugitive 2,938]

21 minutes ago, Ne Moe Imya said:

They just announced Lewandowski.

 

So they sold a quarter of all their TV rights and merchandising for all of time so that they could stiff Frenkie de Jong on his wages and then bring in Kessie, Raphinha, and a 34 year old striker. Probably finish 3rd this season and go out in the quarterfinals of the CL.

 

Then what? I mean, if they had taken the summer off, sold some deadwood, accepted that there were a few lean years ahead, they could have built a squad to challenge on all fronts around Gavi/Pedri/de Jong/Fati by 2024 or 2025. Instead, they've put it all on red, and even if it hits and they win a trophy next season they'll be selling one of those players next summer to afford the next transfer binge.

 

Makes absolutely no sense what they're doing.

They are counting on the Super League. That’s why they are dragging it through the courts.

[3 Stacks 3,452]

The fact you can do what they're doing and also what PSG, City do, among other clubs at other times, is such a stain on football. The sport is so good, the way it's governed is so rancidly bad.

[Lee909 13,099]

30 minutes ago, Ne Moe Imya said:

They just announced Lewandowski.

 

So they sold a quarter of all their TV rights and merchandising for all of time so that they could stiff Frenkie de Jong on his wages and then bring in Kessie, Raphinha, and a 34 year old striker. Probably finish 3rd this season and go out in the quarterfinals of the CL.

 

Then what? I mean, if they had taken the summer off, sold some deadwood, accepted that there were a few lean years ahead, they could have built a squad to challenge on all fronts around Gavi/Pedri/de Jong/Fati by 2024 or 2025. Instead, they've put it all on red, and even if it hits and they win a trophy next season they'll be selling one of those players next summer to afford the next transfer binge.

 

Makes absolutely no sense what they're doing.

 

 

It does when every Presudent is constantly fighting to keep his job. Say Laporte does what should be done and rebuilds from youth,sells the big earners. Finishes say 3rd,2nd,3rd wins nothing. In a few years the next elections happen and a new guy offers to buy 'insert name' amd spend big. 

 

Running a football club on behalf of the fan ownership on 4 yearly 'Presidential leadership' leads to success now running of ubs

 

[an tha 8,639]

The authorities are too afraid to deal with these clubs and too afraid to actually implement/enforce their rules that aren't worth the paper they are written on and exist as nothing more than a token gesture.

 

It is farcical - the clubs know all this too and don't give a toss as they know there are simply no real consequences.

 

 

 

 

[Lee909 13,099]

20 minutes ago, an tha said:

The authorities are too afraid to deal with these clubs and too afraid to actually implement/enforce their rules that aren't worth the paper they are written on and exist as nothing more than a token gesture.

 

It is farcical - the clubs know all this too and don't give a toss as they know there are simply no real consequences.

 

 

 

 

 

 

This

Malaga must just shake their heads as they actually got banned on FFP/Unpaid bills in 2013/14. 

While City,PSG,Barcelona have all got away with it

[TD_LFC 1,015]

10 hours ago, an tha said:

The authorities are too afraid to deal with these clubs and too afraid to actually implement/enforce their rules that aren't worth the paper they are written on and exist as nothing more than a token gesture.

 

It is farcical - the clubs know all this too and don't give a toss as they know there are simply no real consequences.

To be fair to Spain they're probably doing more to protect the league than any other of the big leagues, can you imagine the PL forcing a club to lose the best player in the world because they can't get within budget.

 

Where the Spanish league fails is it doesn't protect the individual clubs it just forces clubs to comply with the 70% of income wage rule (club debt factors in as well). 

 

It doesn't stop Barcelona, or any other club, putting itself in financial jeopardy to ensure it get's within that 70%.   

 

It's a start though.

[HBenn 60]

They reckon that they are about to bid £20m for Chukewemeka (be interesting to see if we counter).

 

Personally reckon they are going to buy all the players they want and then try and shame/bully La Liga into letting them register them in the same way they have pushed their players to defer and then give up money.

 

Reckon they will lead with the line that La Liga's wage system is forcing the league to be uncompetitive and lose players like Messi, stop them registering Lewandowski.

 

They are like a really spoilt child that just won't accept they cannot afford things and want everyone else to pay for them. I hope La Liga and De Jong tell them to get stuffed!

[HBenn 60]

Btw - if anyone hasn't seen it (and can find it) there was a great all access behind the scenes documentary by the BBC 15 years at Barca with Laporta.

Imagine a number of the people are probably still the same. Well worth a watch.

 

[Manny 1,963]

14 hours ago, Ne Moe Imya said:

They just announced Lewandowski.

 

So they sold a quarter of all their TV rights and merchandising for all of time so that they could stiff Frenkie de Jong on his wages and then bring in Kessie, Raphinha, and a 34 year old striker. Probably finish 3rd this season and go out in the quarterfinals of the CL.

 

Then what? I mean, if they had taken the summer off, sold some deadwood, accepted that there were a few lean years ahead, they could have built a squad to challenge on all fronts around Gavi/Pedri/de Jong/Fati by 2024 or 2025. Instead, they've put it all on red, and even if it hits and they win a trophy next season they'll be selling one of those players next summer to afford the next transfer binge.

 

Makes absolutely no sense what they're doing.

Said exactly the same last week - it looked in the winter like there was something approaching some common sense creeping back into the club. Players like Traore where they used their unique pull without breaking the bank, players like Aubameyang to give the squad a veneer of superstardom on a budget, and players like Ferran who are good young players not costing a packet in wages. Steadily fixing problems in the squad without having to resort to MEGA SIGNINGS. Complement these with Gavi, Pedri, de Jong, Ansu Fati and so on and there's a decent team emerging - which could be complemented with free transfers like Christensen and Kessie etc.

 

Instead, like addicts who managed to stay clean for a short while, they've gone completely off the wagon again. Why did they chuck a wad of cash at 33yo Aubameyang, only to follow that up with chucking a load of cash at 34yo Lewandowski? Is one megabucks mid-thirties striker not enough? Why did they sign Raphinha for £50m when they signed Torres for £50m in the winter, when they still preferred to play a right back who's nearer 40 than 35 than the only one they've got on their books now?

 

They deserve everything they'd get but nothing will happen to them, because they're one of the few clubs in the world for whom gravity doesn't apply to. Cunts.

[Captain Turdseye 15,127]

They’re saying that they’re gonna “pull a third economic lever” which translates to selling off 49% of another in-house company. Amazing. It’s like printing new money. 
 

Seems like maybe Frenkie De Jong doesn’t want to walk away from the millions they owe him.