Is Gerrards legacy likely to take a (minor) hit?

[JohnnyH]

When we won the league I wondered where the current crop of players would sit in our list of greatest ever players when they finished playing, and what impact that would have on the players in the current top 10. In particular I was thinking about Gerrard.  
 

The conversation over the last 10-15 years has always been on whether Gerrard or Dalglish were number 1. Kenny’s place in or around the top will never be in doubt given his talent and what he won as a player. But I always wondered if Gerrard might slip down the rankings a small bit because of his failure to win the League with us? It’s a pretty massive gap on his CV. He’ll never fall outside the top 5 or so because of how good he was, but no league, and nothing but a League Cup in his last 9 years at the club is pretty poor, and when a generation has grown up without seeing stevie, I wonder will that impact his legacy?

 

If we can get another league title under Klopp, and maybe even another CL, then would some of the current crop challenge Stevie’s place? If we have 3 more years of Salah giving similar output to the last 5 years, then I think he has a great shout to take that 2nd spot from Stevie.  Could big Virg come into the conversation? Trent in the fullness of time? 
 

I never thought anyone would replace Souness as my favourite LFC Captain, but Henderson has. So will some of our current crop replace Stevie in his mostly recognised position as 2nd best Liverpool player of all time?

[dave u]

Definitely. In time his legend will be diminished, mainly because of social media virgins posting stats about trophies he didn't win.

 

Those who saw him though, we'll know. *taps nose*

[Strontium]

Just imagine a peak Gerrard in this team. 

[JohnnyH]

31 minutes ago, dave u said:

Definitely. In time his legend will be diminished, mainly because of social media virgins posting stats about trophies he didn't win.

 

Those who saw him though, we'll know. *taps nose*

 
I was about to write about the sharp pain in my back, but it’s a knife straight to the chest. 

[dockers_strike]

Love Kenny and love Stevie. I always had The King as our greatest ever player. Have to say, Stevie surpassed him, just, in my view.

 

Stevie played in some frankly woeful Liverpool teams. He was the focal point for everyone at the club, teammates and fans etc. I cant remember the number of times Stevie dragged us over the line and not just in finals either.

 

Stevie also had the 'bad luck' to play for us when the club had declined to the point we were nowhere near title contenders never mind title winners and other clubs were top dogs domestically.

 

In no way would I undermine anything The King achieved for us but he played in a different era and different quality teammates than Stevie.

 

Will Stevie's legacy take a hit? I dont see how really. Even Jurgen's team with it's great players has only won one title, blocked from winning at least two titles and can anyone say van Dyke, Salah, Mane and Hendo's etc legacy will be lessened because of that?

[FrenchEyeGlass]

It will because of recency bias and the fickle nature of the likes of twatter. 

 

 

If Gerrard was in this Liverpool team, he'd be our best player. He was a better player than Mo, VVD, Allison. It's not even close for me.

 

I love Klopp and want him for another 10 years if possible, but if his time does come to an end, the romantic in me would want Stevie in as manager. He deserves to lift the Premier League title with Liverpool. 

[JohnnyH]

23 minutes ago, Strontium said:

Just imagine a peak Gerrard in this team. 

See, that’s an interesting discussion. Where would he fit in in a Klopp system?

 

Gerrard is the best all round player I’ve ever seen. He could play any position to an extremely high level, and in most cases be the best on the pitch in that position. 
 

But one weakness I felt (and many other felt) he had was discipline in a structure. It’s one of the reasons Rafa took him out of midfield and put him in that number 10 role where he excelled. Klopp also demands that incredible level of structural discipline so the pressing can work. If one person is pressing too early or too late, it can fall apart. I’ve always wondered about what Klopp might have done with Stevie. It would have been in his front 3, no question. But I wouldn’t have been massively surprised if there was no Coutinho to sell for €140m, would Stevie have been one to get moved on for huge money to build a team of Klopp players? Klopp always spoke about wanting to keep coutinho but I think he was more than happy to move him on to get the funds.  More than likely Stevie would have played where Salah is now, but I wonder would Klopp have sacrificed him for the team build. 

[etho]

I'm not sure it will. I love Salah and he could make a claim potentially, and maybe Virgil, but I think Stevie will stand the test of time. As others have echoed to have seen him in this team would have been something very special indeed

[Preston Red]

I genuinely think, had Stevie been in this team, we'd be sat on 7/8 European Cups and potentially 21 League titles.

[dockers_strike]

5 minutes ago, JohnnyH said:

See, that’s an interesting discussion. Where would he fit in in a Klopp system?

 

Gerrard is the best all round player I’ve ever seen. He could play any position to an extremely high level, and in most cases be the best on the pitch in that position. 
 

But one weakness I felt (and many other felt) he had was discipline in a structure. It’s one of the reasons Rafa took him out of midfield and put him in that number 10 role where he excelled. Klopp also demands that incredible level of structural discipline so the pressing can work. If one person is pressing too early or too late, it can fall apart. I’ve always wondered about what Klopp might have done with Stevie. It would have been in his front 3, no question. But I wouldn’t have been massively surprised if there was no Coutinho to sell for €140m, would Stevie have been one to get moved on for huge money to build a team of Klopp players? Klopp always spoke about wanting to keep coutinho but I think he was more than happy to move him on to get the funds.  More than likely Stevie would have played where Salah is now, but I wonder would Klopp have sacrificed him for the team build. 

Johnny, Jurgen would have built his team around him. He only sanctioned Coutinho's sale because he made a song and dance about going to Barcelona. He didnt sell him to buy, that was just a consequence of his forced exit.

 

Ive never bought into this lack of discipline stuff around Gerrard either. It's what makes great players great. It's like saying Messi, Suarez, Mbappe etc all stick rigidly to the discipline or structure a manager imposes. They dont else they'd be nothing special.

 

 

[JohnnyH]

9 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

Johnny, Jurgen would have built his team around him. He only sanctioned Coutinho's sale because he made a song and dance about going to Barcelona. He didnt sell him to buy, that was just a consequence of his forced exit.

 

Ive never bought into this lack of discipline stuff around Gerrard either. It's what makes great players great. It's like saying Messi, Suarez, Mbappe etc all stick rigidly to the discipline or structure a manager imposes. They dont else they'd be nothing special.

 

 

You’ve named 3 of the most skilful forwards to ever play the game (one being arguably the greatest player ever)  when discussing the importance of discipline when playing midfield. They are not relevant remotely relevant to the discussion. 
 

I’m genuinely not sure how someone can argue AGAINST Gerrards weakness being discipline in the midfield role? The eye test confirms it in my opinion. I also don’t think Klopp builds his team around Gerrard because that’s not Klopp. The Team is what’s important and there very specific roles. 
 

Now don’t get me wrong, I think Klopp would have Gerrard in his front 3 causing mayhem. I don’t think Klopp would have wanted Stevie in his midfield though. 

[JohnnyH]

17 minutes ago, Preston Red said:

I genuinely think, had Stevie been in this team, we'd be sat on 7/8 European Cups and potentially 21 League titles.

We might have another European Cup, but I don’t think Maradona adds the points to surpass City’s totals those two years we finished 2nd, never mind Stevie. 

[Preston Red]

2 minutes ago, JohnnyH said:

We might have another European Cup, but I don’t think Maradona adds the points to surpass City’s totals those two years we finished 2nd, never mind Stevie. 

I do believe he'd have dragged us over the line during games where we didn't perform.

 

Just like old times.

[etho]

4 minutes ago, JohnnyH said:

You’ve named 3 of the most skilful forwards to ever play the game (one being arguably the greatest player ever)  when discussing the importance of discipline when playing midfield. They are not relevant remotely relevant to the discussion. 
 

I’m genuinely not sure how someone can argue AGAINST Gerrards weakness being discipline in the midfield role? The eye test confirms it in my opinion. I also don’t think Klopp builds his team around Gerrard because that’s not Klopp. The Team is what’s important and there very specific roles. 
 

Now don’t get me wrong, I think Klopp would have Gerrard in his front 3 causing mayhem. I don’t think Klopp would have wanted Stevie in his midfield though. 

Nonsense, Stevie in a midfield 3 with Thiago and Fabinho 

 

 

[JohnnyH]

1 minute ago, Preston Red said:

I do believe he'd have dragged us over the line during games where we didn't perform.

 

Just like old times.

Fair enough. Sadly we’ll never know. 

[Preston Red]

1 minute ago, JohnnyH said:

Fair enough. Sadly we’ll never know. 

Awesome to dream though mate.

[JohnnyH]

2 minutes ago, etho said:

Nonsense, Stevie in a midfield 3 with Thiago and Fabinho 

 

 

That certainly sounds like a thing of beauty. But I just can’t shake that worry in the odd key game where Stevie switches off. And nowadays there is no room for the tiniest slip. 

[JohnnyH]

1 minute ago, Preston Red said:

Awesome to dream though mate.

Nah. I’d have sold Gerrard and brought in Gareth Barry. 

[Mook]

1 hour ago, dave u said:

Definitely. In time his legend will be diminished, mainly because of social media virgins posting stats about trophies he didn't win.

 

Those who saw him though, we'll know. *taps nose*

I reckon his legend is growing, amongst our own support certainly.

 

It's far easier to remember Olympiakos, Istanbul, FA Cup 2006, the run in during 2008 rather than the odd draw vs Sunderland or Birmingham City where he was standing about with his hands on his hips (and as much as I love him, they did happen and it certainly wasn't all on him).

 

I think he will generally be remembered more fondly than any of the current lot.

[manwiththestick]

For people watched him game after game then no, his legacy will remain intact.

 

It's a joke how these days all you see online is the 'hilarious' slippy G, shouts of he never won the league so not as good as 'whatever Leicesterplayer' or not as good as Lampard or Scholes with is frankly laughable and offensive.

 

 

[coachpotato]

If Gerrard stopped in the odd game then what was the problem? Carrying most of the teams he played in and seeing the errors that were being made at a time when he could have walked into ANY team at that time, he must have thought “What the fuck” from time to time.

I’m not saying he was without any blame for some things that happened while he was here, but

when that team with Reina, Hyppia, Carragher, Mascherano, Alonso, Torres and him were together, he played some of his best football, proof, if it were needed, that if he was playing in this squad, he’d be outstanding too.

So no, I don’t believe his standing as the second best player should be diminished, but in time and with newer heroes around, it might well be in the same way as some of the 60’s and 70’s teams has.The big difference now is that we have much more media archive for teams in the recent past and that could continue to keep former players in the mix.

 

[TheHowieLama]

Gerrard on the right of midfield in this current system is a dream. The perfect player for it.

[gkmacca]

A lot of nonsense will always get discussed about past players. Those who didn't see them live will either ignore them or underappreciate them. Other twisted truths will add to the revisions (e.g. it wasn't Kenny's fault, any more than it was Messi's, to have played in a great team - the proof of their genius was to have shone in a team of stars, which is actually harder, not easier, than shining amongst dullards such as Biscan, Traore or Davey Thompson. There's a reason Le Tissier, for example, got to be a club 'legend' by chugging away at Southampton rather than testing his talents among the big boys). 

 

A difference with Gerrard is that he came to fame when every game could be filmed and preserved, so at least younger fans will have more to discover and treasure. 

 

As for his managerial highs or lows, it will have some effect, but nothing crucial. 

[3 Stacks]

Gerrard didn't have the most help during his prime. I don't think not winning the league is a huge black mark on his resume, a bit like how people ding Harry Kane for not winning anything thus far when he's played for a couple merely decent Spurs sides. Obviously, Gerrard won the Champions League, so he's got that. Kane came close as well, though. But you have to look at the context of the teams. Gerrard played in and was trying to mostly carry an underdog side. The current LFC sides are not underdogs, although there's less financial power than a few other clubs.  

 

Gerrard's legacy is hurt a bit by his post prime, say after 08-09. A solid 5 years of decline where he just wasn't very good and had a lot of limitations, 13-14 included. But prime Gerrard is hard to criticize and he should stay up the rankings for that. 

 

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 hours ago, Strontium said:

Just imagine a peak Gerrard in this team. 

Great, now I've ripped my cock off. Thanks a lot, Stronts.