If we were to sign one more player....

[Dundalis]

On 26/06/2022 at 21:05, Captain Turdseye said:

Where’s this talk of Saka replacing Salah come from? Fucking hell. That sounds atrocious. 

Agree, although if you'd offered me the chance to sign Mo Salah during his time at Chelsea, or Saka now, I'd pick Saka every day of the week. Doesn't mean Saka turns into anything remotely close to Salah, but it does tell you what playing for the right manager and club can do if you have the right amount of ability.

 

If we were guaranteed to get Bellingham next season and could have one player, I'd take Pedri from Barcelona. There's your world class central midfield for the next 15 years. Being able to run midfields in top leagues at 17/18 years of age is ridiculous, and they have both been doing it.

[an tha]

Surely the definition of world class is being great at whatever your role is.

 

If it is linking play and winning the ball to give it to the attacking players for example....or just being a nuisance in middle of park to force errors/break up the other teams play...all the way to being a goalscorer who pretty much is a flat out poacher to being a Messi type player, to being an all round box to box midfielder...to being a centre half who operates in a system like VVD does to one who pretty much just defends his 18 yard box....

 

Different jobs/different needs/different skill sets - but the very best at each individual job/role should IMO be called 'world class'

[stringvest]

If nothing else, the responses to the question have brought the TLW community together in a way that the beans vs no beans discussion could only dream of

[dave u]

5 hours ago, Funkasy said:

And his floating crosses.

 

They were boss when he had Carroll to aim at for three games a season.

[TheRedMachine]

5 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

Henderson is a good footballer, nobody can survive in this team if they're not. But he's not world class. But he's also a very good leader and I do think is presence in our team has a value. I think it's alright for players not to be world class. 

He is world class. Obviously. Otherwise he wouldn't be captain of one of the greatest teams ever assembled. Leadership, setting tempo, fight, will to win, tactical awareness, passing, positioning, adaptability, pressing, the list goes on.

[aws]

He's got a world class mentality and approach to the game. 

[Carra_is_legend]

On 27/06/2022 at 18:15, Joey8FrogsLegs said:

Not sure how to get my views across to Klopp, so I’ll have to settle for this forum I guess.

 

I admit that I may be too critical of Henderson, and acknowledge that others view his qualities and contributions differently. Still I would like to challenge the statement that he’s world class. Great leader and character, I think most will agree upon that. But apart from that what exactly is his main strengths as a player? With most players, and definately in our team, it’s pretty easy to tell what their main strengths are. Which are Hendersons?

 

[Barrington Womble]

4 hours ago, TheRedMachine said:

He is world class. Obviously. Otherwise he wouldn't be captain of one of the greatest teams ever assembled. Leadership, setting tempo, fight, will to win, tactical awareness, passing, positioning, adaptability, pressing, the list goes on.

 

1 hour ago, aws said:

He's got a world class mentality and approach to the game. 

This. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

9 hours ago, an tha said:

Surely the definition of world class is being great at whatever your role is.

 

I always think of "world class" players as being the ones who could have a starting role in any team in the world and excel at it.

 

I love Jordan and I think he's the perfect captain for this team, but I'm not sure he fits that definition of world class.

[m0e]

8 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

I always think of "world class" players as being the ones who could have a starting role in any team in the world and excel at it.

 

I love Jordan and I think he's the perfect captain for this team, but I'm not sure he fits that definition of world class.

Who does?

 

Genuine question. @Barrington Womblecan chip in too.

 

Who are the world class midfielders today?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

21 minutes ago, m0e said:

Who does?

 

Genuine question. @Barrington Womblecan chip in too.

 

Who are the world class midfielders today?

I don't know enough about midfielders at other teams, but I'd say our world class players include Ali, Virg, Fabinho, Thiago and Mo. There's an argument to be made for a few others. 

 

(I think Trent & Robbo are the greatest pair of full backs I've ever seen, but I'm not sure that either of them would be anything like as effective in a different team and without their partner.)

[aRdja]

34 minutes ago, m0e said:

Who does?

 

Genuine question. @Barrington Womblecan chip in too.

 

Who are the world class midfielders today?

Thiago, Fabinho, De Bruyne, Bernardo Silva (the cunt), Rodri, Modric, Kante when he’s fit. Kimmich is apparently very good but I haven’t seen enough of his lately and Bayern haven’t really done that much since Thiago left them. 

[Barrington Womble]

8 hours ago, m0e said:

Who does?

 

Genuine question. @Barrington Womblecan chip in too.

 

Who are the world class midfielders today?

I don't think I watch enough football to be able to comment on that. But if we use my point of view about that player being good enough to get into a world XI, as I also pointed out in that post, I don't think henderson gets in a PL XI. 

[El Dangerous]

Shame we’re not serious about Bellingham because we’d probably get him this summer if we could find a way to stump up the cash. Getting him against Madrid, City, Chelsea etc next season will be next to impossible but I reckon we’d have a free run this season.

[HBenn]

1 hour ago, El Dangerous said:

Shame we’re not serious about Bellingham because we’d probably get him this summer if we could find a way to stump up the cash. Getting him against Madrid, City, Chelsea etc next season will be next to impossible but I reckon we’d have a free run this season.

I don't think he is the main target but if he is I could see us doing a Naby style deal for him this summer, outside chance of signing him. The fact that numbers are starting to emerge and a protestation that he won't be sold this summer may be a negotiating position, you never know. Wouldn't rule out a move this summer.

[TD_LFC]

There's nothing to leverage that kind of deal against.

 

Naby had a release clause in his contract and we used that to negotiate an early deal in anticipation of more interest in the summer. As far as I'm aware there's no such clause in Bellingham's contract so it makes no sense for Dortmund to do a deal on the quiet, they want as many clubs involved as possible.

[Lee909]

Makes absolutely no sense for Dortmund to do a deal in advance. His price isn't likely drop and a good showing next year in the world cup or europe only means he's worth more

[Aventus]

41 minutes ago, TD_LFC said:

There's nothing to leverage that kind of deal against.

 

Naby had a release clause in his contract and we used that to negotiate an early deal in anticipation of more interest in the summer. As far as I'm aware there's no such clause in Bellingham's contract so it makes no sense for Dortmund to do a deal on the quiet, they want as many clubs involved as possible.

Might swing it if we pay cash up front to sign him but we loan him back for a season. 80m now might be worth more to them than 100m in a years time. 

[El Dangerous]

Dortmund are shrewd mother fuckers, more so than us. We get him this year for full market value or we go to auction next year and compete on transfer fee, wages, signing bonus etc with the worlds richest clubs. All the noise we’re making is in the vain hope that he gets his heart set on us and we can barter a bit. Even then Dortmund won’t budge. The fact we were hot on Tchouameni probably indicates we were never serious about Bellingham.

[Carra_is_legend]

€120m was quoted in the papers today for Bellingham. We won't pay half that, this or next summer. 

[HBenn]

2 hours ago, Lee909 said:

Makes absolutely no sense for Dortmund to do a deal in advance. His price isn't likely drop and a good showing next year in the world cup or europe only means he's worth more

Well it does if the price is right. It is not a foregone conclusion his value will go up in the next year. He could get injured in training, he could have one of those World Cups where Southgate doesn't play him much and everyone is scratching their heads wondering why or England as a whole could just be crap and go out in the group stage. 

The point is if a club, not necessarily us, offer them a price now that is based on him having a good (but not amazing) World Cup, who is to say they won't take it. A year of no transfer speculation to distract one of their star players, a year to clearly plan.

I am just saying there is a price and none of the Liverpool journos have come out and categorically said it won't happen this summer just that it is unlikely.

It may even be someone else that signs him. As I have said before, personally I think we will sign someone this summer but I would be surprised if it was Bellingham. 

[HBenn]

3 hours ago, TD_LFC said:

There's nothing to leverage that kind of deal against.

 

Naby had a release clause in his contract and we used that to negotiate an early deal in anticipation of more interest in the summer. As far as I'm aware there's no such clause in Bellingham's contract so it makes no sense for Dortmund to do a deal on the quiet, they want as many clubs involved as possible.

I never really get this about it being quiet. Just because we don't know a deal maybe cracking off it doesn't mean the interested  clubs don't. Dortmund could have told the clubs that they want it done quietly so that they can bring in players and not get rinsed. 

[an tha]

1 hour ago, Carra_is_legend said:

€120m was quoted in the papers today for Bellingham. We won't pay half that, this or next summer. 

We won't get the chance next summer.

[m0e]

13 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

I don't think I watch enough football to be able to comment on that. But if we use my point of view about that player being good enough to get into a world XI, as I also pointed out in that post, I don't think henderson gets in a PL XI. 

He doesn't.

 

I just wanted to know who you're comparing him with, as there are very few midfielders I'd buy to replace him from the PL, and most of them play for City.

[Barrington Womble]

1 hour ago, m0e said:

He doesn't.

 

I just wanted to know who you're comparing him with, as there are very few midfielders I'd buy to replace him from the PL, and most of them play for City.

So this is why I said in my original post, I absolutely believe he has a value for us as a team/club that is a little immeasurable (as a leader). He for sure has more value for us than for instance if he signed for Chelsea or man city tomorrow. I'm not saying he's not a very good footballer or am amazing leader. In fact he is both of those things. But my interpretation of world class he falls a little short. I'm sure lots people rate Henderson as highly as I do, but perhaps we have different interpretations of what constitutes world class, so would call him world class.