Darwin Nunez - Thoughts?

[razor]

13 minutes ago, Bernard Diomede said:

Had exactly the same discussion with the lad sat next to me last night. When Diaz missed that chance he’s arguing why is it that he’s not getting as much stick as Nunez. But if the argument is that someone else is just as bad/culpable/ why isn’t he getting blamed. Then the lowering of standards is complete isn’t it and the level that we are accepting is nowhere near what we have been accustomed to previously under klopp. 
 

I think I’ve been fairly balanced on Nunez. I thought he looked really poor and raw when he first came in. He improved a lot and we looked a much more dangerous team with him in. That’s potentially still the case. But I think it’s fairly clear that he can’t be relied upon to be your main man for a title winning/ European cup winning team. Which is what we should be aspiring to be. Real top players turn up in the big moments and unfortunately Nunez has been found wanting in that department. 

 

I totally agree.

 

But with regards to the Diaz chance, I would also argue that it was a much more difficult opportunity than the Nunez chance.  They aren't quite the same, so it wouldn't be fair to criticize them equally.

 

I think it was Nunez's header that set it up - the best thing he did all evening.  He miscontrolled a couple that ended up in Salah's path, but the Diaz pass was deliberate.

 

All in all, a total mess of a performance, and not one showing the green shoots of promise or "something to build on."  We are Liverpool and we require more.

[Lurtz]

12 minutes ago, Bernard Diomede said:

Had exactly the same discussion with the lad sat next to me last night. When Diaz missed that chance he’s arguing why is it that he’s not getting as much stick as Nunez. But if the argument is that someone else is just as bad/culpable/ why isn’t he getting blamed. Then the lowering of standards is complete isn’t it and the level that we are accepting is nowhere near what we have been accustomed to previously under klopp. 
 

I think I’ve been fairly balanced on Nunez. I thought he looked really poor and raw when he first came in. He improved a lot and we looked a much more dangerous team with him in. That’s potentially still the case. But I think it’s fairly clear that he can’t be relied upon to be your main man for a title winning/ European cup winning team. Which is what we should be aspiring to be. Real top players turn up in the big moments and unfortunately Nunez has been found wanting in that department. 

 

The difference between Nunez, Mo and Diaz is that Mo has a history of being an incredible goal scorer and more often than not he's come up with the goods when we've needed it. Diaz works his arse off, tracking back, getting involved, making mad runs with the ball, admittedly with limited impact of late. Nunez has none of those attributes. Other than rare moments of brilliance such as Newcastle away, he's inconsistent, brain dead, can't finish, can't stay onside. There isn't one person on here who wouldn't like to see him turn that around but if 2 years under Klopp hasn't worked I don't see what will. Get rid. 

[TheSire]

6 minutes ago, Redder Lurtz said:

 

The difference between Nunez, Mo and Diaz is that Mo has a history of being an incredible goal scorer and more often than not he's come up with the goods when we've needed it. Diaz works his arse off, tracking back, getting involved, making mad runs with the ball, admittedly with limited impact of late. Nunez has none of those attributes. Other than rare moments of brilliance such as Newcastle away, he's inconsistent, brain dead, can't finish, can't stay onside. There isn't one person on here who wouldn't like to see him turn that around but if 2 years under Klopp hasn't worked I don't see what will. Get rid. 

Diaz never loses the ball does he? He's got a great tough and balance so he's great when under pressure or tight spaces. Nunez is only good when bombing it from deep on the break. He just has a poor footballing brain, what we see now is pretty much the final product.

[TheSire]

A great TOUCH. 

[Lee909]

Nunez is 25 in a months time. He is what he is as a player. He might have a great season now and then but he won't suddenly turn into a reliable goal scorer. 

[Code]

30 minutes ago, TheSire said:

Diaz never loses the ball does he? He's got a great tough and balance so he's great when under pressure or tight spaces. Nunez is only good when bombing it from deep on the break. He just has a poor footballing brain, what we see now is pretty much the final product.

Diaz never loses the ball? Losing or wasting the ball is what he does best.

 

If he could stop running down blind alleys and actually release the ball when he should, instead of when he is forced to do it, we would score a lot more goals.

 

 

[TheSire]

Just now, Code said:

Diaz never loses the ball? Losing or wasting the ball is what he does best.

 

If he could stop running down blind alleys and actually release the ball when he should, instead of when he is forced to do it, we would score a lot more goals.

 

 

I do notice he takes too long to move the ball on but it seems everyone just stands still behind their man so nothing is on. Tbh its our biggest problem, fuck all movement off the ball. You can tell we're in for a shit team performance within about 15 minutes based on our shape and how fluid we are off the ball.

[sh#t waffle]

When he's playing at his peak form and confidence, he looks potentially brilliant. But surely we now have a large enough sample size to say that the peaks are the anomaly, not the troughs?

[TheSire]

22 minutes ago, sh#t waffle said:

When he's playing at his peak form and confidence, he looks potentially brilliant. But surely we now have a large enough sample size to say that the peaks are the anomaly, not the troughs?

That's a simple but fair way to put it.

[johnsusername]

27 minutes ago, sh#t waffle said:

When he's playing at his peak form and confidence, he looks potentially brilliant. But surely we now have a large enough sample size to say that the peaks are the anomaly, not the troughs?

 

No, we should definitely wait...maybe give him another 5 seasons. It could all just "click".

 

He'll be out there in his 40s and his super fans will be arguing that a run of form is just around the corner.

 

Playing Nunez is like kicking yourself in the bollocks - why expect a different result from what is inevitably going to happen?

[razor]

32 minutes ago, Code said:

Diaz never loses the ball? Losing or wasting the ball is what he does best.

 

If he could stop running down blind alleys and actually release the ball when he should, instead of when he is forced to do it, we would score a lot more goals.

 

 

 

Honestly, Code, stop it.

 

Salah stunk the place out, didn't get involved (apart from the "two times he had a pass in front of him"...!?).

 

Diaz lost the ball more than Salah because he had TWICE AS MUCH OF THE BALL AS SALAH.  He was getting involved and was trying to make things happen.

 

I'd say watch the game again without prejudice but I know it's like talking to a pre-programmed robot.

 

Will Diaz have the career that Mo has had?  Almost certainly not.  Is he a better player than Mo?  No, he's not.  Was he better in last night's game than Salah - yes, he was.

[TD_LFC]

29 minutes ago, sh#t waffle said:

When he's playing at his peak form and confidence, he looks potentially brilliant. But surely we now have a large enough sample size to say that the peaks are the anomaly, not the troughs?

 

Which is damning in itself if he only looks potentially brilliant when he's playing at his peak.

 

Klopp doesn't look like he knows what to do with him, we've seemingly done nothing in two years to foster any kind of attacking plan that can get the best out of him, have no real style of attacking play beyond hoping for a bit of individual brilliance, and everyone is suffering because of it.

 

If a new manager can instill an actual attacking style around him does that benefit him or does his woeful finishing and inefficiency still mean it's not going to be enough?

 

 

[Bobby Hundreds]

I think he should get one season with the new guy and if he is still this poor he needs to go in the catapult.

[Bjornebye]

Everyone’s favourite whipping boy. 

[Mathewbet1]

Big game bottler

[Code]

23 minutes ago, razor said:

 

Honestly, Code, stop it.

 

Salah stunk the place out, didn't get involved (apart from the "two times he had a pass in front of him"...!?).

 

Diaz lost the ball more than Salah because he had TWICE AS MUCH OF THE BALL AS SALAH.  He was getting involved and was trying to make things happen.

 

I'd say watch the game again without prejudice but I know it's like talking to a pre-programmed robot.

 

Will Diaz have the career that Mo has had?  Almost certainly not.  Is he a better player than Mo?  No, he's not.  Was he better in last night's game than Salah - yes, he was.

I have hardly said anything about Salah, some people, you included seems absolutely obsessed with him though.

 

In the post you qoute Im talking about Diaz and how his lack of football brain is taking the rythm and fluidity out of our attacking play.

 

Yet again you make it about Salah.

 

For the love of God, please make it stop.

 

I remember another winger we had who used to get the ball a lot and used to run with it a lot, his name was Jermaine Pennant, I detested him, he was absolutely useless, yet there were loads thinking he was great because he did run a lot with the ball.

 

Diaz is certainly better than Pennant, but he has some of the same flaws in his game, flaws that only have a negative contribution to the overall quality in our game. 
 

Play the fuckin ball, not when you have to, but when you can and should. 
 

CL final in Athens is a great example, a lot of people keep saying Pennant as our best player, I thought he was the worst and it would be better to play with 10 men, so all the time Pennant as on the ball actually could have been used to do something positive instead. 

[Ronnie Whelan]

Salah is finished as an elite player. However, I wouldn't question his attitude. I think he still cares. I just don't think he has it anymore - we rightly judge him on what he was. 

 

Diaz is a good player, who can be very good in a lot of games. In a functioning attack, he is a real handful because he creates space for others. I don't love him but I do like him. He isn't the problem.

 

Nunez is the kind of player that you might get at West Ham, Wolves or Fulham, who you see regularly on Match of the Day. He looks shit hot in passing and you think oh he would be great here. Ironically, he'd probably get the same amoumt of goals at those clubs. Bottom line and I quite like him is that he ain't good enough to be at a club where the expectation and pressure is that we challenge for every trophy. He (and Mo) have cost us in the title race in the last few weeks. If we only just had a fit Jota but that's another issue.

 

I'd love Kane here. I think he is nearly the ideal player for us, but very unlikely. I'd go all out for Watkins for that reason. 

[johnsusername]

38 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Everyone’s favourite whipping boy. 

 

Easy way for him to change that, score some goals. 

 

Being able to run with the ball without falling over would be a start.

 

He's a laughing stock in the league, and by association so are we. 

 

He earns about £9million a year/£175k a week. What a waste of money. 

 

His antics off the ball are embarrassing as well. All the histrionics, he's as bad as Pickford.

[kemskem]

His finishing has been disappointing but we’ve been a better team with him on it. A lot of his misses have been near ones unlike Salah’s for example who tends to miss the target or not connect with it properly. Fans chant his name not because he’s got cult status but because they can see his value to the team but everyone will be disappointed he hasn’t netted more. I find it hard to slag him off but if we’d be better without him next season naturally I’d be fine if he was replaced. But there’s no doubt in my mind if he was out for a long time this season we’d have missed him.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

Get. Fucking. Rid. 
 

 

[Tenfolder]

38 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Everyone’s favourite whipping boy. 

 

This is where I get labelled a superfan or whatever, but yup.

Nunez absolutely deserves the piles of criticism he gets in terms of not being able to finish or hit a barn door from 2ft away and not looking like he's got it in him to be a top forward, but the way some seem to be blaming him as if he's the sole reason for recent losses is just way off, maybe if we stopped shipping easy goals/going behind first practically every game we wouldnt need to pressure our forwards to need to score at least two fucking goals every game, the losses/silly draws are a whole team issue, Nunez just as a whole trove of other overpaid pricks has his responsibility for them.

[Joey8FrogsLegs]

2 minutes ago, kemskem said:

His finishing has been disappointing but we’ve been a better team with him on it. A lot of his misses have been near ones unlike Salah’s for example who tends to miss the target or not connect with it properly. Fans chant his name not because he’s got cult status but because they can see his value to the team but everyone will be disappointed he hasn’t netted more. I find it hard to slag him off but if we’d be better without him next season naturally I’d be fine if he was replaced. But there’s no doubt in my mind if he was out for a long time this season we’d have missed him.

A balanced view, and agree with most of it.

 

It seems however we need to get rid of Salah first. He’s been going backwards for a couple of years now, and this season has been very poor. The team has looked significantly better when he’s been out, and the sample size is pretty decent now.

 

His numbers are still decent, but you could say the same about Zlatan and Ronaldo at United. But none of them made the team better, and I think we’ve Come to that stage with Salah as well. 
 

Probably not a good idea to let both go at the same time, and Salah clearly needs to go first of the two, based on how much they bring to the team and of course also age and wages.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

55 minutes ago, TD_LFC said:

 

Which is damning in itself if he only looks potentially brilliant when he's playing at his peak.

 

Klopp doesn't look like he knows what to do with him, we've seemingly done nothing in two years to foster any kind of attacking plan that can get the best out of him, have no real style of attacking play beyond hoping for a bit of individual brilliance, and everyone is suffering because of it.

 

If a new manager can instill an actual attacking style around him does that benefit him or does his woeful finishing and inefficiency still mean it's not going to be enough?

 

 

It’s all good and well adapting to a style that benefits him, but he will still boast it straight at the keeper in 9/10 chances. 

 

Fergie binned Andy Cole off because of a number of reasons, one of his big criticism was that he was 1 in 4 chances goalscorer. And Cole banged them in, I’ll kill for a

striker with his sort of stats.

 

Nunez’s stats for goals to shots is something like 11% isn’t it? which isn’t acceptable for an £82 million striker in a top tier team.

 

 

[Code]

14 minutes ago, Ronnie Whelan said:

 

 

Diaz is a good player, who can be very good in a lot of games. In a functioning attack, he is a real handful because he creates space for others. I don't love him but I do like him. He isn't the problem.

 

 

Diaz does not create space for others, 90% of the time he gets the ball and runs with it until he loses it  or is forced to make a coward pass to get rid of it.

 

[kemskem]

2 minutes ago, Joey8FrogsLegs said:

A balanced view, and agree with most of it.

 

It seems however we need to get rid of Salah first. He’s been going backwards for a couple of years now, and this season has been very poor. The team has looked significantly better when he’s been out, and the sample size is pretty decent now.

 

His numbers are still decent, but you could say the same about Zlatan and Ronaldo at United. But none of them made the team better, and I think we’ve Come to that stage with Salah as well. 
 

Probably not a good idea to let both go at the same time, and Salah clearly needs to go first of the two, based on how much they bring to the team and of course also age and wages.

The front three did look better without Salah, I agree.