Man City (A) - Sun 10th Apr 2022 (4:30pm)

[Lario]

Jude Bellingham.

 

That is all.

[manwiththestick]

It's no doubt been mentioned already but I'm still baffled by the Salah shot that even in real time clearly hit the City player (Stones?) and should have been a corner, the fact they apparently VAR checked for a handball and still gave a goal kick is ridiculous.

[Halcyon Days]

12 minutes ago, magicrat said:

What we really need is Atletico to give them a roasting, hopefully with ET , and crock a few of the cunts 

Agree with the crock part but I’d prefer them to still have Europe on their minds as we go into the final few games. I think if all they have is 7 games to concentrate on them we can forget the league but throw in their holy grail and Pep has a tendency to go ‘demento’.

[CapeRed]

12 hours ago, m0e said:

So we drew against the best team in world football, at their own ground, to stay 1 point behind them...

 

And people think we need to be replacing players?!

Yep but for the sake of improvement , not because somebody is shite. I have felt we need goals from mf and the one thing yesterday did highlight was that Jordan who is a leader on and off can be a weakness in games played at that pace.

[Supremolad]

15 hours ago, gkmacca said:

Amusing Sky pretend to care so much about 'The Quadruple' seeing as they - like most of the rest of the media - never acknowledge Fagan's treble. Anyway, I wish we weren't playing them again next weekend - it feels like a massive distraction, and I only hope we're not left knackered for subsequent games. I've always suspected the real challenge will be how both teams respond to the fatigue of playing each other, and I still think that's the key factor.

I think we'll have more in the tank than City by the time we play them in the FA cup. They were a bit knackered in the 2nd half and have to go away to Atletico.

 

They would likely go through in that CL game but it certainly would take more energy out of them compared to Liverpool taking it a bit easy at home to Benfica.

[lebron]

46 minutes ago, magicrat said:

We saw the high press’s faults well and truly exposed yesterday. With the pace City have the balls over the top were a killer . Klopp can’t rinse and repeat the strategy on Saturday and expect to get away with it . 

The high press really only works if all people on the pitch are employing it. See first half against Benfica for evidence. As I've said in another thread, our current midfield version (Hendo, Fab, Thiago) haven't got the quickness in their feet to fully implement it against other world class sides, with Hendo being the main culprit. Keita for all his supposed faults is much better at winning the ball than Hendo. He's more volatile, sure, so we either win the ball or give up a better chance than with Henderson there (which is why Hendo gets the big games I suspect). 

 

The solution (if you're not binning Hendo) is bringing Bobby into the side, as he's still our best player at setting the press and giving the opposition midfield worries. Facing sides with Modric, Kroos, Silva, De Bruyne, Kovacic (and even Mount) will always be a worry if our CBs are parked on the halfway-line and there's no pressure on the man on the ball. Even more so when Matip is playing next to Trent, as neither of them are as quick as van Dijk (few are). I'd consider starting Konate against City next time if we're going to play a bit more direct anyway (as the guys on the podcast alluded to).

 

Anyway, in the truly big games in the future, I think we will need an upgrade on Henderson, as hard is it is for his supporters to hear it. Someone better at pressing, but also more press resistant, being able to receive the ball in between the lines, go past a man and play a killer pass. De Bruyne is a generational talent in that respect. In games like yesterday that sort of talent is often the big difference though. We might have to compromise, and have one player (someone like Bissouma) to do the dirty part of the job, and play someone like Elliott or Jones to do the more creative part. Not many players like can do both, so good luck to our scouting department...

 

Ideally we'd also have Mane, Salah and Bobby back to peak physical condition. As well as Jota and Diaz have slotted in, I still think our team functions best with the original three. Too many games (and extra time), Covid, injuries (and possibly age) seem to have taken away any physical advantage our forwards have had though. Not really surprising. Salah looks a bit like Messi and Ronaldo used to look before the business end of the season, conserving energy (or running on fumes).

 

While writing this, it just struck me how horribly unfair it is sitting here dissecting our fantastic team, players, manager and staff after a great footballing spectacle yesterday. I stand by what I've said over the last couple of years, this is by far the best Liverpool side of all time, it's just that we're up against an oil state with unlimited funds and one of the best managers of all time too. My "criticism" of Henderson and others must be seen in this light, as several of our other top, league and European cup winning sides had far more glaring personell issues. Difference was that all of the teams they were competing against had the same issues too. There would be a collection of hard working players accompanying the 3,4,5 world class players in each side. Nowadays, every player needs to be world class to not get picked on. It's maddening, even if it should be all about the fantastic quality of football we're seeing.

 

Anyway, I'm fine with a point yesterday, as stylistically, City (along with Chelsea and Real) are the worst match-ups we have in this crazy, modern-football world. Their midfield(s) unfortunately regularly wins the midfield battle against us, which makes the rest of our team look worse than they are. Seems like Rafa's words on how games are won in midfield have a semblance of truth to it afterall. These sides might well turn out to our downfall in our quest to compete for the remaining trophies, but it's going to be a hell of a ride, and one I'm looking forward to no matter how it all ends up. Hopefully all our supporters will be able to appreciate the fantastic work that Klopp, the players and our club is doing, and not jump along the bandwagon of us not being a great side.

 

[dockers_strike]

23 minutes ago, Supremolad said:

I think we'll have more in the tank than City by the time we play them in the FA cup. They were a bit knackered in the 2nd half and have to go away to Atletico.

 

They would likely go through in that CL game but it certainly would take more energy out of them compared to Liverpool taking it a bit easy at home to Benfica.

If we can nick a few goals against Benfica and Jurgen is confident making 5 changes in the last 25 - 30 minutes of that game will not allow them back into the game, then possibly we may be fresher.

 

But I thought we looked gased as this game went on and thought if Sterling's goal had stood, we werent going to come back a 3rd time. I wouldnt say Jota is an unfit lad but even he was blowing hard on 60 minutes.

 

I want us to win every game but I fear this semi is going to derail our season especially if it's another 120+ minute marathon.

 

Lots of people saying there were gaps between our front 3 and midfield yesterday. Yes, that's what happens when your players are fucking exhausted.

[Jose Jones]

Can’t decide whether Matip’s tackle on Grealish was more like Indiana Jones shooting the fella with the sword, or Crocodile Dundee chucking the tin can at the mugger.

[El Rojo]

12 minutes ago, lebron said:

The high press really only works if all people on the pitch are employing it. See first half against Benfica for evidence. As I've said in another thread, our current midfield version (Hendo, Fab, Thiago) haven't got the quickness in their feet to fully implement it against other world class sides, with Hendo being the main culprit. Keita for all his supposed faults is much better at winning the ball than Hendo. He's more volatile, sure, so we either win the ball or give up a better chance than with Henderson there (which is why Hendo gets the big games I suspect). 

 

The solution (if you're not binning Hendo) is bringing Bobby into the side, as he's still our best player at setting the press and giving the opposition midfield worries. Facing sides with Modric, Kroos, Silva, De Bruyne, Kovacic (and even Mount) will always be a worry if our CBs are parked on the halfway-line and there's no pressure on the man on the ball. Even more so when Matip is playing next to Trent, as neither of them are as quick as van Dijk (few are). I'd consider starting Konate against City next time if we're going to play a bit more direct anyway (as the guys on the podcast alluded to).

 

Anyway, in the truly big games in the future, I think we will need an upgrade on Henderson, as hard is it is for his supporters to hear it. Someone better at pressing, but also more press resistant, being able to receive the ball in between the lines, go past a man and play a killer pass. De Bruyne is a generational talent in that respect. In games like yesterday that sort of talent is often the big difference though. We might have to compromise, and have one player (someone like Bissouma) to do the dirty part of the job, and play someone like Elliott or Jones to do the more creative part. Not many players like can do both, so good luck to our scouting department...

 

Ideally we'd also have Mane, Salah and Bobby back to peak physical condition. As well as Jota and Diaz have slotted in, I still think our team functions best with the original three. Too many games (and extra time), Covid, injuries (and possibly age) seem to have taken away any physical advantage our forwards have had though. Not really surprising. Salah looks a bit like Messi and Ronaldo used to look before the business end of the season, conserving energy (or running on fumes).

 

While writing this, it just struck me how horribly unfair it is sitting here dissecting our fantastic team, players, manager and staff after a great footballing spectacle yesterday. I stand by what I've said over the last couple of years, this is by far the best Liverpool side of all time, it's just that we're up against an oil state with unlimited funds and one of the best managers of all time too. My "criticism" of Henderson and others must be seen in this light, as several of our other top, league and European cup winning sides had far more glaring personell issues. Difference was that all of the teams they were competing against had the same issues too. There would be a collection of hard working players accompanying the 3,4,5 world class players in each side. Nowadays, every player needs to be world class to not get picked on. It's maddening, even if it should be all about the fantastic quality of football we're seeing.

 

Anyway, I'm fine with a point yesterday, as stylistically, City (along with Chelsea and Real) are the worst match-ups we have in this crazy, modern-football world. Their midfield(s) unfortunately regularly wins the midfield battle against us, which makes the rest of our team look worse than they are. Seems like Rafa's words on how games are won in midfield have a semblance of truth to it afterall. These sides might well turn out to our downfall in our quest to compete for the remaining trophies, but it's going to be a hell of a ride, and one I'm looking forward to no matter how it all ends up. Hopefully all our supporters will be able to appreciate the fantastic work that Klopp, the players and our club is doing, and not jump along the bandwagon of us not being a great side.

 

Very good post, especially the bit about us effectively being up against on oil state. 

 

I think our competitiveness and Klopp's remarkable work have actually been of benefit to Man City. Sky and the rest can jump on the 'Greatest Ever Rivalry' train and are less likely to call out the financial doping than if we were regularly finishing far behind them like Chelsea and the rest. We give them a much better product to flog. 

 

Having seen City yesterday, I'm a lot less confident about them dropping points in their remaining games, but who knows. I also think that they're more likely to drop points in the league if they have a European Cup semi-final to get distracted about, so probably not a bad thing for us if they progress past Atletico. 

[Supremolad]

14 hours ago, TheHowieLama said:

The best player on the pitch by a mile. If Mo wants that wage he needs to put in those performances in tha top games. 

Mo has done it many times throughout his career at Liverpool including this season. He was the best player at Anfield where he scored a worldie against City and set Mane up in the 2-2.

 

His pass for Mane's goal yesterday is also being underestimated. It was a perfect defence splitter. Football's best players dont play their best in every single big game. Even a freak like Messi never managed it at his peak.

[dockers_strike]

Thing that strikes me is compare our performance yesterday to that against the 'title decider' at their place in 2018/19. We were, in my opinion, the better side in the 2018 game.

 

We lost because a ball was 9 centimeters from going over the line, Kompany's assault on Mo went unpunished and Sane's ball that hit the post rolled along the line before going in.

 

But overall, the performance was head and shoulders over that yesterday.

[Anubis]

54 minutes ago, El Rojo said:

Very good post, especially the bit about us effectively being up against on oil state. 

 

I think our competitiveness and Klopp's remarkable work have actually been of benefit to Man City. Sky and the rest can jump on the 'Greatest Ever Rivalry' train and are less likely to call out the financial doping than if we were regularly finishing far behind them like Chelsea and the rest. We give them a much better product to flog. 

 

Having seen City yesterday, I'm a lot less confident about them dropping points in their remaining games, but who knows. I also think that they're more likely to drop points in the league if they have a European Cup semi-final to get distracted about, so probably not a bad thing for us if they progress past Atletico. 

 

They looked brilliant at Anfield, but went on to drop points.

[DaveT]

46 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

Thing that strikes me is compare our performance yesterday to that against the 'title decider' at their place in 2018/19. We were, in my opinion, the better side in the 2018 game.

 

We lost because a ball was 9 centimeters from going over the line, Kompany's assault on Mo went unpunished and Sane's ball that hit the post rolled along the line before going in.

 

But overall, the performance was head and shoulders over that yesterday.

Agree with all that. Worth noting that they’ve added around £320m of players since then, which excludes the likes of Torres who arrived and then left in that time. 

[rubble-rouser]

2 hours ago, magicrat said:

We saw the high press’s faults well and truly exposed yesterday. With the pace City have the balls over the top were a killer . Klopp can’t rinse and repeat the strategy on Saturday and expect to get away with it . 

Neither of their goals came as a result of a high press by Liverpool or (as I think you mean) playing a high line.

 

The first goal we are way deeper as a team than usual and switch off momentarily after a freekick following which they have a huge slice of luck from the kind of shot teams can't have if you defend 40 yards further up.

 

The second goal was caused by Liverpool being too deep to begin with, playing sloppy passes deep in our own half which is the opposite of a high line. Sure, the offside trap was (marginally) sprung for the final ball, but the line is on the edge of the box (way deeper than we usually set up) and the keeper almost got to it. 

 

Our best period of the game came when we pushed Henderson and Thiago way further forward, pressing extremely high, and defending the half way line.    

[rubble-rouser]

5 minutes ago, DaveT said:

Agree with all that. Worth noting that they’ve added around £320m of players since then, which excludes the likes of Torres who arrived and then left in that time. 

And the MOTD pundits' cure for City's inability to beat us? Spend £100M on Kane or Haaland. 

 

For us, the management is criticised when we are performing absolute fucking miracles breathing the same air as these cheating cunts.  

[CapeRed]

I dont think it disrespects our current squad to want to bring players in that will improve us. Its what great managers do. Shankly learned to his cost that not improving the squad can be costly. Our mf is pretty damn good against most sides but we havent dominated city in a game since 2019 at home and I think in the lat 10 EPL matches we have only beaten them on 2 or 3 occassions. I know financially we cant compete but with a little bit of a tweak we can put a side out that would more than match them. Currently our mf is a bit too one paced to dominate them.

[lebron]

12 minutes ago, rubble-rouser said:

And the MOTD pundits' cure for City's inability to beat us? Spend £100M on Kane or Haaland. 

 

For us, the management is criticised when we are performing absolute fucking miracles breathing the same air as these cheating cunts.  

Ha-ha, so true. 

[johnsusername]

27 minutes ago, rubble-rouser said:

And the MOTD pundits' cure for City's inability to beat us? Spend £100M on Kane or Haaland. 

 

 

Yep. Top insight from the pundits. Get (arguably) the world's best striker for £100m and pay him £500,000 a week - it has to be the only solution. 

 

Never mind that City have played all season with no striker and flooded the midfield to overwhelm teams. 

[gkmacca]

2 hours ago, Supremolad said:

I think we'll have more in the tank than City by the time we play them in the FA cup. They were a bit knackered in the 2nd half and have to go away to Atletico.

 

Yes, but my point was about us being drained for the games that come AFTER we play them again. We need the energy more than they do to get through those games, and we'll also be facing the bluenoses and the mancs when they decide to genuinely try for just about the only game of the season.

[gkmacca]

Full marks to Guardiola, by the way, for managing to take his irritating titness up to a even higher level. From his stupid MDCR top to his Brendan Rodgers-style 'I'm in charge' hand-grip on the neck of his rival manager when they talked, he's just begging to become a psychological case study. 

[Torvald Utne]

Highlight of the game for me was sterling trying to go round van dijk, and failing, miserably.

[Scott_M]

2 hours ago, dockers_strike said:

Thing that strikes me is compare our performance yesterday to that against the 'title decider' at their place in 2018/19. We were, in my opinion, the better side in the 2018 game.

 

We lost because a ball was 9 centimeters from going over the line, Kompany's assault on Mo went unpunished and Sane's ball that hit the post rolled along the line before going in.

 

But overall, the performance was head and shoulders over that yesterday.

I don’t agree. I think they were very similar. 
 

Mane hit the post and that goal line was from the follow up but the rest of half was similar - they were completely frantic, we were sloppy trying to slow the pace and gave the ball away a lot. 
 

Second, we came out a lot better, steadied the ship and got our way back into it.

 

These games v City tend to be a game of 2 half’s. One team will have the upper hand in the first half, the opposition coach will make changes at half time and then the second half is a lot more even.  

[Lario]

Actually @Caramac, there was a time in the second half where Sterling ran at Van Dijk in the box. He ended up running into him, trying to move him, and Virgil was just standing there like a dad blocking his 8 year old son.

 

There was no reply or anything, but was funny as fuck.

[dockers_strike]

38 minutes ago, Scott_M said:

I don’t agree. I think they were very similar. 
 

Mane hit the post and that goal line was from the follow up but the rest of half was similar - they were completely frantic, we were sloppy trying to slow the pace and gave the ball away a lot. 
 

Second, we came out a lot better, steadied the ship and got our way back into it.

 

These games v City tend to be a game of 2 half’s. One team will have the upper hand in the first half, the opposition coach will make changes at half time and then the second half is a lot more even.  

Well we'll have to disagree. I came away from the 2018/19 game thinking but for the thickness of a goal line at one end and the thickness of a post at the other, we were denied the win.

 

Yesterday I thought we got out of jail and the game could have been over by half time.

[Mark M]

5 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

Well we'll have to disagree. I came away from the 2018/19 game thinking but for the thickness of a goal line at one end and the thickness of a post at the other, we were denied the win.

 

Yesterday I thought we got out of jail and the game could have been over by half time.

Yep - Agree with this City for me definelty the better side even though we did  improve in the second half.

After both league games this season I think City have been the better side overall in both and caused us more problems than we caused them.