Watford (H) - Sat 2nd Apr 2022 (12:30pm)

[sir roger]

Watford were exactly how I expected them to be, fresher, athletic and well drilled,  and we beat them relatively comfortably without playing well. I had Beglin and Jim somebody on comms and the other Jim said that Watford would be 12th if only away games counted so a 6-0 drubbing was never on the cards after an international break.

[Bruce Spanner]

1 minute ago, sir roger said:

Watford were exactly how I expected them to be, fresher, athletic and well drilled,  and we beat them relatively comfortably without playing well. I had Beglin and Jim somebody on comms and the other Jim said that Watford would be 12th if only away games counted so a 6-0 drubbing was never on the cards after an international break.

 

 "For a team that wants to be in the top half of the table it's not good enough"

[sir roger]

6 minutes ago, Bob Spunkmouse said:

Are you able to make a super slow mo version of this zoomed in on Fab? I’m watching it over and over trying to work out what the fuck happens with his legs?

Should our best DM be thinking about a solicitors letter at this point ?

[dockers_strike]

8 minutes ago, sir roger said:

Watford were exactly how I expected them to be, fresher, athletic and well drilled,  and we beat them relatively comfortably without playing well. I had Beglin and Jim somebody on comms and the other Jim said that Watford would be 12th if only away games counted so a 6-0 drubbing was never on the cards after an international break.

Was talking with my mates about this Roger due to them not having many players away on international breaks.

 

It seems we're one of the 'big' teams that regularly gets stiffed with a Saturday 12:30 kick off after international breaks or CL fixtures.

 

Maybe I should be grateful we were at home and not away to compound the matter?

 

The cynic in me thinks the tv companies select us because they think it's the best chance of an upset result happening.

 

 

[an tha]

Ironically when we dicked Watford 5 in the reverse fixture it was an early kick off after the international break.

 

We were also forced to not be able to play Alisson and Fabinho because of all that bollocks with Brazil that went on.

[Caramac]

42 minutes ago, Bob Spunkmouse said:

Are you able to make a super slow mo version of this zoomed in on Fab? I’m watching it over and over trying to work out what the fuck happens with his legs?

Looks to me like he's been asked do some subtle promotion work for the IOM tourist board.

 

[Bob]

6 minutes ago, Caramac said:

Looks to me like he's been asked do some subtle promotion work for the IOM tourist board.

 

Even when you fail to deliver the requested gif you get a rep for it, 

[Caramac]

9 minutes ago, Bob Spunkmouse said:

Even when you fail to deliver the requested gif you get a rep for it, 

Haha. Ok ok, you got me

 

[gkmacca]

1 hour ago, sir roger said:

We enjoyed the day at Alder Hey which is arguably the second best childrens hospital in the country.

Classic Hodgeballs: He devotes part of his initial press conference at Watford to likening his acceptance of the job to Odysseus being lured to the island of the Sirens. So the proto-Enlightenment parable about a man using his reason to find a means to RESIST the sirens' song and thus avoid a shipwreck, is turned by Woy Brainbox Hodgson into an explanation of why he has irrationally been bewitched by a call designed to destroy him. And the hacks still think this pea-brained Pooter is some kind of intellectual!

[Chocoholic]

1 hour ago, mike23 said:

The article actually attempts to make out that Jota commits the initial foul. There's some questioning of why this was given when similar incidents are often ignored - still not really sure why this is considered a suitable argument for not giving the penalty anyway - and they pad the whole thing out with a lot of Hodgson quotes. The Athletic have some good articles sometimes and at one point seemed a refreshing contrast to the general clickbait nonsense that seems to largely pass for sports journalism these days, but they seem to have been filling their site with more and more pointless dross recently.

Most clubs could ask similar questions as to the inconsistency of refereeing decisions for similar types of incidents of all sorts. The standard of refereeing is where the real blame lies, but invariably it's the club who get the decision, that the finger is pointed at, to be the witch to be burnt.

 

 

[gkmacca]

3 minutes ago, Chocoholic said:

Most clubs could ask similar questions as to the inconsistency of refereeing decisions for similar types of incidents of all sorts. The standard of refereeing is where the real blame lies, but invariably it's the club who get the decision, that the finger is pointed at, to be the witch to be burnt.

 

 

The complaints remind me of that line in Yes Minister when Sir Humphrey tries to block something being corrected because it will create a 'dangerous precedent'. To which Hacker replies: 'You mean that if we do the right thing this time, we might have to do the right thing again next time?'

 

If these pundits genuinely think that wrestling an opponent to the ground in the penalty area is a legitimate part of the game, they can't really complain no matter how blatantly it happens in future. And if they accept that it's wrong but it has been ignored in the past, so what? Their conclusion ought to be: let's keep penalising it in future.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 hours ago, manwiththestick said:

The thing is, stuff like the wrestling of Jota to the ground, you will see at least one example most weeks in the PL that goes unpunished.

 

If this is now a new precedent going forward I'm all for it but wouldn't surprise me if it happens in another game and it doesn't get reviewed.

Nah. You see a load of pushing and shoving, but you almost never see anyone being hauled to the ground.

[Tony Moanero]

 

“I don’t read books. I read the Daily Express and The Star.”

[Bob]

1 hour ago, Caramac said:

Haha. Ok ok, you got me

 

Righto. Weird that.

[polymerpunkah]

Difference for me from the usual wrestling is that the defender has lost his balance, is going down, and wraps his arms around Jota and takes him down.

 

If they're both standing, moving and get in a tangle and go down, it's rarely given.

 

But this was so obvious it has to be given.

[No2]

3 hours ago, Bruce Spanner said:

 

 "For a team that wants to be in the top half of the table it's not good enough"

That's enough!!!

[Bruce Spanner]

4 minutes ago, No2 said:

That's enough!!!

 

"When you get a job like this, should you be working for the long-term good of Liverpool or trying to get an extra result or two for Bruce Spanner? "

[Sugar Ape]

Can't believe people get paid for writing this shit (Adam Leventhal, The Athletic), especially the last paragraph.

 

Dissecting the VAR penalty decision that went against Watford at Anfield

 

It was a moment that eased Liverpool nerves, as Watford were still in with a chance of nicking a late equaliser.

 

The VAR award of an 88th-minute penalty at Anfield for Juraj Kucka’s foul on Diogo Jota allowed Fabinho to rubber-stamp a 2-0 win.

 

Mission accomplished, nothing to see here, routine win over relegation fodder complete. Get the guitar going in the Albert pub next to the Kop, sing some songs and move on to the next one. We’ve got a title to win.

 

But there are always two sides to the story.

 

“It was the only sad moment for me,” Roy Hodgson said after the game. It was a decision that riled, and he wanted to make it known.

 

“VAR’s done a lot of very good things since it’s been instituted in English football and this year is better than last year. But I still find it very hard to accept when a situation happens which literally nobody (is calling for), the referee didn’t see a penalty, Jurgen Klopp is asking me what’s happening and I’m saying, ‘I don’t know, what is it?’.

 

“Not one Liverpool player complained about having been fouled and then suddenly for the game to be stopped in the 88th minute and being given a chance to seal it 2-0 it leaves a rather unpleasant taste in the mouth.”

 

So how, and why, was the decision made? Was it simply an open-and-shut case? Did referee Stuart Attwell have no choice but to award the penalty?

 

The Athletic has looked at the incident and sought guidance from the Premier League.

 

In isolation, the sight of a defending player facing away from the ball and pulling an opponent to the floor is unlikely to end well, and so it proved for Watford.

 

But looking again at the start of the incident does give it a slightly different perspective.

 

 

As the corner is delivered into the box, Jota’s right arm is seen over the top of Kucka’s head. It could be argued that Jota, whose eyes are focused on the ball, is simply trying to evade his marker. However, another view could be that the action of pushing an opponent’s head towards the ground is an unfair infringement.

 

“It was a tussle, it wasn’t a clear foul, and you could end up arguing (over) who grabbed who first,” said Hodgson.

 

 

Move the incident on a few frames and there is likely now to be only one outcome: the award of a penalty.

 

Kucka now has two arms around Jota, who is already struggling to stay on his feet.

 

 

Yet the ball, which is cleared at the near post area, never gets close to reaching the area in which the incident took place. “The player who won the penalty, he just jumped up and got on with the game and was trying to get involved in the next attack, so he obviously wasn’t too bothered about a penalty,” said Hodgson.

 

So, in real time, how was the decision reached?

 

A Premier League source advised The Athletic that VAR John Brooks told the on-pitch referee to delay while he checked the incident and then asked him to take another look on the pitchside screen. It was explained there had been no complaint on the field, from Jota or anyone else.

 

At Stockley Park, Brooks decided to pull back the footage of the corner as the ball was cleared.

 

According to sources, the initial contact (Jota’s arm on top of Kucka’s head) is almost certain to have been taken into consideration but would not have been deemed enough of a reason to turn the decision in Watford’s favour.

Yet, the one area that was acknowledged as being difficult to be definitive on was why this grappling incident (over so many others) was given so much attention.

 

That explains why Hodgson waited to meet referee Attwell by the tunnel at full-time.

 

So what was said? “I wasn’t criticising his refereeing performance in the game, that I can say. I don’t think he refereed the game badly at all. What I had to say to him was on another matter,” he said with a glint in his eye.

 

Hodgson added: “I’ll let him answer that question,” when asked what Attwell had said in return.

 

Yet referees do not explain their decisions. Why not?

 

It was explained by the Premier League source that this is an issue that does get raised in meetings, but the general opinion is that referees would only be asked to speak after a mistake and can only then say that they did what was right at that moment.

 

But in this instance, would it not have been more helpful to all concerned if the deliberations between on-field referee and VAR were heard? That, however, would require a change in the International Football Association Board (IFAB) rules which says there is to be no in-match communications heard by anyone other than the officials.

 

The upshot is incidents like this, where an action is taken with little explanation during or afterwards, and managers like Hodgson are left wondering what might have been.

 

“The biggest myth in football that I’ve ever come across is that refereeing decisions don’t change games — everyone in football I know thinks they do”, Hodgson remarked.

 

Watford fans will hope this incident does not come back to haunt them come the end of the season.

[Rushies tash]

City have had at least two VAR calls (or non-calls) directly affect the result of games this season and are 4 points better off because if it (Wolves and Everton, both hand ball). Our calls have gained us the sum total of fuck all, being given in the last few minutes of games we were winning comfortably.

[dockers_strike]

20 minutes ago, Sugar Ape said:

Can't believe people get paid for writing this shit (Adam Leventhal, The Athletic), especially the last paragraph.

 

Dissecting the VAR penalty decision that went against Watford at Anfield

 

It was a moment that eased Liverpool nerves, as Watford were still in with a chance of nicking a late equaliser.

 

The VAR award of an 88th-minute penalty at Anfield for Juraj Kucka’s foul on Diogo Jota allowed Fabinho to rubber-stamp a 2-0 win.

 

Mission accomplished, nothing to see here, routine win over relegation fodder complete. Get the guitar going in the Albert pub next to the Kop, sing some songs and move on to the next one. We’ve got a title to win.

 

But there are always two sides to the story.

 

“It was the only sad moment for me,” Roy Hodgson said after the game. It was a decision that riled, and he wanted to make it known.

 

“VAR’s done a lot of very good things since it’s been instituted in English football and this year is better than last year. But I still find it very hard to accept when a situation happens which literally nobody (is calling for), the referee didn’t see a penalty, Jurgen Klopp is asking me what’s happening and I’m saying, ‘I don’t know, what is it?’.

 

“Not one Liverpool player complained about having been fouled and then suddenly for the game to be stopped in the 88th minute and being given a chance to seal it 2-0 it leaves a rather unpleasant taste in the mouth.”

 

So how, and why, was the decision made? Was it simply an open-and-shut case? Did referee Stuart Attwell have no choice but to award the penalty?

 

The Athletic has looked at the incident and sought guidance from the Premier League.

 

In isolation, the sight of a defending player facing away from the ball and pulling an opponent to the floor is unlikely to end well, and so it proved for Watford.

 

But looking again at the start of the incident does give it a slightly different perspective.

 

 

As the corner is delivered into the box, Jota’s right arm is seen over the top of Kucka’s head. It could be argued that Jota, whose eyes are focused on the ball, is simply trying to evade his marker. However, another view could be that the action of pushing an opponent’s head towards the ground is an unfair infringement.

 

“It was a tussle, it wasn’t a clear foul, and you could end up arguing (over) who grabbed who first,” said Hodgson.

 

 

Move the incident on a few frames and there is likely now to be only one outcome: the award of a penalty.

 

Kucka now has two arms around Jota, who is already struggling to stay on his feet.

 

 

Yet the ball, which is cleared at the near post area, never gets close to reaching the area in which the incident took place. “The player who won the penalty, he just jumped up and got on with the game and was trying to get involved in the next attack, so he obviously wasn’t too bothered about a penalty,” said Hodgson.

 

So, in real time, how was the decision reached?

 

A Premier League source advised The Athletic that VAR John Brooks told the on-pitch referee to delay while he checked the incident and then asked him to take another look on the pitchside screen. It was explained there had been no complaint on the field, from Jota or anyone else.

 

At Stockley Park, Brooks decided to pull back the footage of the corner as the ball was cleared.

 

According to sources, the initial contact (Jota’s arm on top of Kucka’s head) is almost certain to have been taken into consideration but would not have been deemed enough of a reason to turn the decision in Watford’s favour.

Yet, the one area that was acknowledged as being difficult to be definitive on was why this grappling incident (over so many others) was given so much attention.

 

That explains why Hodgson waited to meet referee Attwell by the tunnel at full-time.

 

So what was said? “I wasn’t criticising his refereeing performance in the game, that I can say. I don’t think he refereed the game badly at all. What I had to say to him was on another matter,” he said with a glint in his eye.

 

Hodgson added: “I’ll let him answer that question,” when asked what Attwell had said in return.

 

Yet referees do not explain their decisions. Why not?

 

It was explained by the Premier League source that this is an issue that does get raised in meetings, but the general opinion is that referees would only be asked to speak after a mistake and can only then say that they did what was right at that moment.

 

But in this instance, would it not have been more helpful to all concerned if the deliberations between on-field referee and VAR were heard? That, however, would require a change in the International Football Association Board (IFAB) rules which says there is to be no in-match communications heard by anyone other than the officials.

 

The upshot is incidents like this, where an action is taken with little explanation during or afterwards, and managers like Hodgson are left wondering what might have been.

 

“The biggest myth in football that I’ve ever come across is that refereeing decisions don’t change games — everyone in football I know thinks they do”, Hodgson remarked.

 

Watford fans will hope this incident does not come back to haunt them come the end of the season.

He's talking shite. It might have settled some fans nerves, it didnt make much difference if any to the players.

 

But fuck 'em. Im happy these tits are in a lather about it.

[an tha]

Last thing we need is a whole week of VAR talk ahead of our visit to the cheats....where after a week of that talk we'll then inevitably get absolutely fuck all from the officials....

[coachpotato]

The Watford player “marking” Jota never looks where the ball is, all he does is block, grab then haul Jota to the ground.

Never mind awarding a penalty, he should have been sent off for assaulting Jota as well.

 

Let’s see the Owl, The Athletic, Dean Ashton or anyone else justify not giving a penalty for similar incidents going forward, there’ll be fucking silence I’ll bet.

 

But we’re now used to having such “experts” give fair and equitable opinions aren’t we.

[Anubis]

He’s a Watford fan. I’ve just mocked him on Twitter. 

[Jairzinho]

Never go full The Athletic. 

[sir roger]

Diogo was trying to get the arsehole off him which was why he was pushing him off in the first picture.