Our midfield

[bizzle10]

De Bruyne was best player on the pitch for me kind of reminded me Steven Gerrard at his best so what our recruitment department need to do is find a 25 yr old Steven Gerrard like player

[Elite]

Our midfield is lacking dynamism, which we thought we got when we signed Keita.

[CapeRed]

3 minutes ago, Elite said:

Our midfield is lacking dynamism, which we thought we got when we signed Keita.

Yeah I thought he was going to be the one. Such a disappointment really.

[dockers_strike]

9 minutes ago, Elite said:

Our midfield is lacking dynamism, which we thought we got when we signed Keita.

Yes, I agree. He was supposed to be the midfield dynamo driving us on but as we all know, it hasnt worked out.

 

Fabinho is great at what he does and most of the time, it doesnt affect us but, his lack of pace is something I think we need to review. If he misses his tackles over the half way line, he isnt recovering to get back in position quickly.

[3 Stacks]

2 hours ago, lebron said:

Very good breakdown. Agree with all of it, except the bolded part, unless it means something other than what I believe it means.

 

Edit: I'd also say Thiago is still pretty mobile, but hasn't got the recovery pace to get the ball back once he's been bypassed.

Courageous as in his commitment and leadership, the players respect him.  It's intangible, but it's worth mentioning, in my opinion. 

 

The thing with Thiago in this team is that we have him leading the press a lot and he's good at it, but it exposes him at times.

 

The majority of his qualities at this point are ones of deeper midfielders; his world class progressive passing, his heading, winning physical duels, but we often have him try to win the ball high and then if it doesn't happen, he's gotta do the thing he's not good at, which is run back and yeah, he then looks slow. It's a double edged sword.

[TheHowieLama]

Thiago doesn't lead the press. Very rare he is further upfield than the front three - Henderson does it all the time. He is often the quickest to react to win the ball in transition.

 

[Section_31]

Fabinho looks exposed in games like yesterday's because I'd argue he's our only world class midfielder. He's playing on a different level to the others but he's trying to stop the tide alone. Thiago is world class in terms of pedigree but too hampered by injury to pick up any consistency.

 

When you look at Henderson, Milner, Keita, Oxlaide Chamberlain, Jones, none of them have the pedigree to be able to deal with a midfield like city's at full pelt.

 

If fabinho had a Gerrard and a prime Alonso around him we'd be a completely different proposition in these matches. 

 

By and large though it doesn't matter against most other sides as we attack down the flanks and in the channels, and the middle of the park is just there to break up counters.

[Scott_M]

Personally I thought Fab had a shocking first half being their press victim and was a bit better after the break, Hendo was anonymous first half and was getting into the game as we took him off and that Thiago was pretty good throughout. 
 

The main issue for me is how we fix it come Saturday. 
 

In the game at the Emptyhad last season, in the first half, going long and direct with 4 attackers worked initially but we didn’t threaten after half time once they worked it out.

 

Same yesterday. We got back into it being more direct but then they finished the stronger once they worked it out. 
 

Do we try and flood the midfield narrow as well, hope to break up play and let our pace / full backs do damage on the break? I think a 4-2-2-2 could work. A double pivot would reduce the risk of Fabinho being another pressing victim. 
 

Keep the strikers much narrower and tell them not to come back leaving a 2v2. 
 

Or keep with the 4-3-3 as we’ve played nothing like our best against them this season and they haven’t been able to beat us?

[Jairzinho]

I think he'll play Firmino which, if he plays well, will help the midfield. 

[stringvest]

44 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Thiago doesn't lead the press. Very rare he is further upfield than the front three - Henderson does it all the time. He is often the quickest to react to win the ball in transition.

 

his press is ineffective most of the time, as people waltz past him without him putting a challenge in or attempting to nick the ball.  There were countless examples against city, and to be frank, in any other game where this can be seen. He rarely wins the ball, and will usually not involve himself in a true 50-50.

[TheHowieLama]

14 minutes ago, stringvest said:

his press is ineffective most of the time, as people waltz past him without him putting a challenge in or attempting to nick the ball.  There were countless examples against city, and to be frank, in any other game where this can be seen. He rarely wins the ball, and will usually not involve himself in a true 50-50.

To be clear - He is often the quickest to react was about Thiago not El Capitan.

 

Our right sided midfielder is always the furthest upfield,

[sir roger]

All together now.

 

We've got the worst midfield in the Wi i i rlld

[Bobby Hundreds]

Yesterday is irrelevant most people said its midfield where we need to update next.. last summer. It doesn't mean our midfield isn't good enough but it seems the most obvious place to improve and hopefully get the biggest bang for your book. Bellingham and Tchouameni the names most flouted, no idea how good or realistic they are, the age profile is important, Bellingham could pretty much play for a decade so could Tchouameni.

[aws]

Maybe one of Carvalho or Harvey is intended to gradually take over from Hendo over the next two seasons. 

[Ron B]

8 hours ago, Manny said:

 

The dream for me is to lose Ox (he's a useful enough player but he's wasted here now) and replace him with Bellingham, but I'd be surprised to see us spend that kind of wedge. And what a wedge it'll have to be - Dortmund will inevitably make a killing this year selling Haaland, having also seen the mancs coming last year with Sancho, so there's zero pressure to sell him for anything but silly money. At the moment, anyway.

My understanding was that Haaland’s release clause takes effect this summer? £66m or however much it is would be a tidy sum, but it’s not bonkers money. 

[dockers_strike]

3 minutes ago, Ron B said:

My understanding was that Haaland’s release clause takes effect this summer? £66m or however much it is would be a tidy sum, but it’s not bonkers money. 

You're forgetting his agent wants €40m on top of the fee so you're talking over 100m and that's before wages.

[TheHowieLama]

I think some of the fee goes to his parents as well.

[m0e]

21 hours ago, chrisbonnie said:

Midfield is clearly an issue for us otherwise klopp wouldn't have spent so much money trying to make it a non issue. 

 

We've bought chamberlain, wijnaldum, fabinho, keita, thiago and I'm sure there's someone else I'm missing. 

 

You mean, a bit like he bought Alisson, Adrian and Karius in goal, Tsimikas and Robertson at left back, VVD, Matip, Konate, and Klavan and centre back, and Salah, Mane, Jota, Diaz, and Minamino up front?

[Ron B]

1 hour ago, dockers_strike said:

You're forgetting his agent wants €40m on top of the fee so you're talking over 100m and that's before wages.

Yes, but it’s £66m (or thereabouts) to Dortmund. The clib don’t get paid more just because the agent takes home such a ludicrous wedge. 

[dockers_strike]

3 minutes ago, Ron B said:

Yes, but it’s £66m (or thereabouts) to Dortmund. The clib don’t get paid more just because the agent takes home such a ludicrous wedge. 

What Im saying is whoever buys Haaland will pay Dortmund their fee plus the supposed 40m to his agent. The fee isnt 66m with 40m of that to the agent leaving 26m to Dortmund.

 

The total fee for the transfer will be over 100m, not 66m and that's before you pay his reputed 500,000 a week that he's supposed to want.

[Joey8FrogsLegs]

4 hours ago, TheHowieLama said:

Thiago doesn't lead the press. Very rare he is further upfield than the front three - Henderson does it all the time. He is often the quickest to react to win the ball in transition.

 

Henderson is on the 21st percentile in the top 5 European leagues compared to other midfielders.

 

Thiago is on the 77th percentile on the same stats.

 

Edit: Those are the pressing stats, and was a comment to the first sentence of your post. As for your comment on often being the quickest to react, well the stats dont back that either. 
 

And if you really want to see some shocking stats, check out tackling. 5% of the midfielders in the top 5 leagues make less tackles than Henderson.

[TheHowieLama]

4 minutes ago, Joey8FrogsLegs said:

Henderson is on the 21st percentile in the top 5 European leagues compared to other midfielders.

 

Thiago is on the 77th percentile on the same stats,

 

If you mean winning possession back yeah. Thiago is one of the best around.

My point was Henderson is the fella "leading" the press from our midfield. He is the furthest forward and often will chase past the front three into their third. Thiago hardly ever does that. Not saying Hendo is more effective.

Thiago's brilliance defensively is how quickly, and where, he anticipates in transitions.

[Joey8FrogsLegs]

1 minute ago, TheHowieLama said:

If you mean winning possession back yeah. Thiago is one of the best around.

My point was Henderson is the fella "leading" the press from our midfield. He is the furthest forward and often will chase past the front three into their third. Thiago hardly ever does that. Not saying Hendo is more effective.

Thiago's brilliance defensively is how quickly, and where, he anticipates in transitions.

I think you’re right about Henderson for the bold part, but wrong in saying Thiago hardly ever does it.
 

[dockers_strike]

3 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

If you mean winning possession back yeah. Thiago is one of the best around.

My point was Henderson is the fella "leading" the press from our midfield. He is the furthest forward and often will chase past the front three into their third. Thiago hardly ever does that. Not saying Hendo is more effective.

Thiago's brilliance defensively is how quickly, and where, he anticipates in transitions.

Yeah, I noticed Hendo was well forward during the first half but the usual miscreants said he was anonymous. It's like Jurgen says, Hendo's biggest problem is he isnt Steven Gerrard and if some of our fans dont recognise that, there's nothing he can do to help them.

 

[stringvest]

13 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

Yeah, I noticed Hendo was well forward during the first half but the usual miscreants said he was anonymous. It's like Jurgen says, Hendo's biggest problem is he isnt Steven Gerrard and if some of our fans dont recognise that, there's nothing he can do to help them.

 

Henderson can run around all he wants.  It just isn't effective.  The opposition walk past him like he isn't there most of the time.  He won't put a challenge in,  he never rushes anyone into a hasty pass.  It's all too easy too often.  No-one expects Steven Gerrard.  A lame impression of Declan Rice now and again wouldn't hurt.