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Mil-ing Around

Our midfield

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28 minutes ago, HBenn said:

That is the ironic thing in all of this. If we didn't currently have such a big squad we would really be struggling to put a 3 out.

 

We are partly carrying such a big squad (and delaying loans - Morton - where others pay the wages) because we have a number who historically cannot stay fit.

 

The argument will no doubt be that we cannot afford to add to the 9 midfielders we have already. Makes real sense in one regard as 9 is a ridiculous number but if you bring in a player now that has a good record and is more likely to stay fit then you can start to get rid of maybe 2-4 others instead of needing to keep them around due to the current "safety in numbers approach*.

 

It would be a short term financial hit for a longer term benefit

 However from a wages point of view overall our squad is still smaller than last season so imagine there is still space in the overall wage bill for one more.

 

#Granted it would be a waste of time adding one if Klopp doesn't see anyone available he rates

 

 

I very much doubt the size of the squad is based around the perception of how injury prone the players are.

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Chopping and changing the midfield cost us in the 1st half of last season and I fear the same will happen again. Unless Keita comes in and puts together a sustained run of games then we’ll be relying on kids or Milner. 

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2 minutes ago, LFC 6 Times said:

Don’t see it at all with Elliot, hogs the ball and extremely one paced.

I wish his one pace was fast. 

 

The ball hogging can be fixed with training and experience, but pace isn't something you can improve easily. 

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38 minutes ago, LFC 6 Times said:

Don’t see it at all with Elliot, hogs the ball and extremely one paced.

He can find space and play neat little passes, but has no physicality whatsoever.  He needs to turn himself into an annoying little wasp type like the two Silvas at Man City to work as a Premier League midfielder.

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If no midfielder is brought in before the end of the transfer window it's an abdication of responsibility up there with dilly dallying over bringing a defender in during the Jan 21 window.

 

I don't want us to bring in a random loan from the Bundesliga and a Championship player who'll never kick a ball in anger for us either, buy somebody decent and if it means shifting a bum like Keita as part of the deal, all the better.

 

Otherwise it's going to be a long old season.

 

I agree with the shouts about Elliott too, he won't make it, which is a shame, I think that injury has done for him.

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7 hours ago, an tha said:

 

Fabinho and Henderson really need to stay fit....

 

 

 

 

In my best Morgan Freeman accent - 'They didnt stay fit'.

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9 hours ago, an tha said:

It has got to stage now where Thiago being fit and available is a "bonus".

 

If he starts half our league games it will be a bonus.

 

He started 17 of them last season.

 

Keita being fit and available for the other half is about the best we can hope for, but that is far from a guarantee.

 

Looks like the kids Carvalho and Elliott are going to see plenty of minutes and Milner probably too.

 

Fabinho and Henderson really need to stay fit....

 

 

 

 

Fab never stays fit all season. He also is slow at getting his rhythm (see the CL final and Saturday), he needs 4 or 5 games to really get on it after a reasonable small number of missed games. He also gets back late from international duty (which has been worse since covid) and klopp never plays him on his return (although that seems to be a 12.30 on a Saturday too often). 

 

Last season Henderson played plenty of games - it must have been one of his best for appearances. But we managed that by taking him off at 60 minutes for most of the season, he looked dead on his feet at the tail of the season when we were expecting full games out of him. 

8 hours ago, Jose Jones said:

He can find space and play neat little passes, but has no physicality whatsoever.  He needs to turn himself into an annoying little wasp type like the two Silvas at Man City to work as a Premier League midfielder.

I agree with that. But he's played about 6 competitive games in midfield. It could be years before he masters the art of playing there - and he maybe bulk up slightly, his frame still looks like a boy (which is not unreasonable). It's one of the issues of us banking on him. We shouldn't be. It's hard to even bank on Jones (who's worryingly increasingly picking up injuries) who has a decent number of games and seasons behind him. 

 

Fab - misses plenty through injury or internationals

Thiago - crock

Henderson - needs his minutes managed

Keita - crock

Chamberlain - supercrock

Jones - still not quite ready and starting to pick up knocks. 

Elliot - just a boy

Carvalho - just a boy

Milner - 100 years old and absolutely has his minutes managed and plays fewer and fewer each season. 

 

It's just like midfield roulette. 

 

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13 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

Fab never stays fit all season. He also is slow at getting his rhythm (see the CL final and Saturday), he needs 4 or 5 games to really get on it after a reasonable small number of missed games. He also gets back late from international duty (which has been worse since covid) and klopp never plays him on his return (although that seems to be a 12.30 on a Saturday too often). 

 

Last season Henderson played plenty of games - it must have been one of his best for appearances. But we managed that by taking him off at 60 minutes for most of the season, he looked dead on his feet at the tail of the season when we were expecting full games out of him. 

I agree with that. But he's played about 6 competitive games in midfield. It could be years before he masters the art of playing there - and he maybe bulk up slightly, his frame still looks like a boy (which is not unreasonable). It's one of the issues of us banking on him. We shouldn't be. It's hard to even bank on Jones (who's worryingly increasingly picking up injuries) who has a decent number of games and seasons behind him. 

 

Fab - misses plenty through injury or internationals

Thiago - crock

Henderson - needs his minutes managed

Keita - crock

Chamberlain - supercrock

Jones - still not quite ready and starting to pick up knocks. 

Elliot - just a boy

Carvalho - just a boy

Milner - 100 years old and absolutely has his minutes managed and plays fewer and fewer each season. 

 

It's just like midfield roulette. 

 

Highlights how weak that we’re fine we’ve got 9 midfielders shout is.

 

if you take out the 3 kids ( Jones, Elliot , Carvalho) and ox who’s effectively broken, we’re left with 5 players and none of them can be depended on from a fitness perspective. 
 

We’ll always be able to put a midfield 3 but it won’t be a consistent one and this is what cost us last season imo. 

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12 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

Fab never stays fit all season. He also is slow at getting his rhythm (see the CL final and Saturday), he needs 4 or 5 games to really get on it after a reasonable small number of missed games. He also gets back late from international duty (which has been worse since covid) and klopp never plays him on his return (although that seems to be a 12.30 on a Saturday too often). 

 

Last season Henderson played plenty of games - it must have been one of his best for appearances. But we managed that by taking him off at 60 minutes for most of the season, he looked dead on his feet at the tail of the season when we were expecting full games out of him. 

I agree with that. But he's played about 6 competitive games in midfield. It could be years before he masters the art of playing there - and he maybe bulk up slightly, his frame still looks like a boy (which is not unreasonable). It's one of the issues of us banking on him. We shouldn't be. It's hard to even bank on Jones (who's worryingly increasingly picking up injuries) who has a decent number of games and seasons behind him. 

 

Fab - misses plenty through injury or internationals

Thiago - crock

Henderson - needs his minutes managed

Keita - crock

Chamberlain - supercrock

Jones - still not quite ready and starting to pick up knocks. 

Elliot - just a boy

Carvalho - just a boy

Milner - 100 years old and absolutely has his minutes managed and plays fewer and fewer each season. 

 

It's just like midfield roulette. 

 

Yeah....it has been said many times on here and it is a real problem.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

Fab never stays fit all season. He also is slow at getting his rhythm (see the CL final and Saturday), he needs 4 or 5 games to really get on it after a reasonable small number of missed games. He also gets back late from international duty (which has been worse since covid) and klopp never plays him on his return (although that seems to be a 12.30 on a Saturday too often). 

 

Last season Henderson played plenty of games - it must have been one of his best for appearances. But we managed that by taking him off at 60 minutes for most of the season, he looked dead on his feet at the tail of the season when we were expecting full games out of him. 

I agree with that. But he's played about 6 competitive games in midfield. It could be years before he masters the art of playing there - and he maybe bulk up slightly, his frame still looks like a boy (which is not unreasonable). It's one of the issues of us banking on him. We shouldn't be. It's hard to even bank on Jones (who's worryingly increasingly picking up injuries) who has a decent number of games and seasons behind him. 

 

Fab - misses plenty through injury or internationals

Thiago - crock

Henderson - needs his minutes managed

Keita - crock

Chamberlain - supercrock

Jones - still not quite ready and starting to pick up knocks. 

Elliot - just a boy

Carvalho - just a boy

Milner - 100 years old and absolutely has his minutes managed and plays fewer and fewer each season. 

 

It's just like midfield roulette. 

 

I definetly feel like we are taking a numbers approach to the injuries problem at the moment. 

I think Elliott has done ok, factoring his age in as well.

I just think that wherever you play football you have to earn the right still and once you win the midfield battle your "ball players" like him can really come to the fore. We never got to that point Vs Fulham.

That was why for me not getting in a Tchouameni type player was disappointing as I think it would help everyone. It would mean Fabinho doesn't have to be bang on it straightaway, it would mean his or Hendo or Thiago's lack of sharpness/pace wouldn't get exposed and it would mean no one would care about the defensive aspects of our more creative midfielders. Frankly if they won balls through pressing that would be an added bonus.

 

I look at City and De Bruyne is a fabulous player and has absolutely zero defensive responsibilities. That isn't the case with out midfield 3 and for a lot of them it looks like it probably would do for him - not very natural. They have really strong attacking skills and when coupled with strong defensive players they would look even better.  

 

Anyway, it is what it is. We haven't brought in a player like that yet and I am sure Jurgen isn't blind to the issues and if they don't move for someone then it would be immensely frustrating but I hope it's because the target(s) Jürgen has identified are just not available now.

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Thiago is pretty much becoming a dead loss at this stage as a reliable option. Like someone said before, he's almost becoming a "bonus" player.

 

The criticism of Elliott is a bit odd. I thought he did OK the other day. He barely played last season after his injury and only turned 19 in April. I can understand saying he's young, inexperienced, etc, and maybe we need a more experienced player, but writing him off?

 

Keita is more of a problem. He's essentially our fourth choice midfielder (and given the injury-proneness of Thiago, one who should get a lot of minutes), but he's always picking up injuries and, even when he plays, he's mediocre (or worse) the vast majority of the time. Not having a reliable, experienced back-up/rotation option to the three main midfielders is the biggest problem - Keita is supposed to be that guy, but he's bordering on worthless in that type of role.

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I never understood why Gini had his critics among the fans. The guy was a machine, could play 90 minutes, every game and never get injured. He was light years above every midfielder we have barring Hendo, Fab and Thiago. Unlike those 3, we could rely on him to be available for every game. He also popped up with the odd goal, something we rarely see from any other midfielder we have. We really should have been in for him when PSG made him available. We might have a lot of numbers in midfield but only 3 of them (when fit) are of the required standard, the rest are not good enough, or not ready to be regulars.

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21 minutes ago, Baltar said:

I never understood why Gini had his critics among the fans. The guy was a machine, could play 90 minutes, every game and never get injured. He was light years above every midfielder we have barring Hendo, Fab and Thiago. Unlike those 3, we could rely on him to be available for every game. He also popped up with the odd goal, something we rarely see from any other midfielder we have. We really should have been in for him when PSG made him available. We might have a lot of numbers in midfield but only 3 of them (when fit) are of the required standard, the rest are not good enough, or not ready to be regulars.

 

I don't disagree with your post. But since gini left, he's had plenty of injuries. 

 

I think we burned him out to be honest. 

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30 minutes ago, chrisbonnie said:

 

I don't disagree with your post. But since gini left, he's had plenty of injuries. 

 

I think we burned him out to be honest. 

Probably got arse sores sitting on the PSG bench all the time!

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59 minutes ago, Baltar said:

I never understood why Gini had his critics among the fans. The guy was a machine, could play 90 minutes, every game and never get injured. He was light years above every midfielder we have barring Hendo, Fab and Thiago. Unlike those 3, we could rely on him to be available for every game. He also popped up with the odd goal, something we rarely see from any other midfielder we have. We really should have been in for him when PSG made him available. We might have a lot of numbers in midfield but only 3 of them (when fit) are of the required standard, the rest are not good enough, or not ready to be regulars.

I think most people would agree pretty much each time a midfielder was bought or came through Gini was the most likely to drop out. Except his fitness meant he was the one picked the most year in year out. He's effectively been replaced by thiago, who is the polar opposite and it creates a lot of games to fill. 

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16 hours ago, Creator Supreme said:

If no midfielder is brought in before the end of the transfer window it's an abdication of responsibility up there with dilly dallying over bringing a defender in during the Jan 21 window.

 

I don't want us to bring in a random loan from the Bundesliga and a Championship player who'll never kick a ball in anger for us either, buy somebody decent and if it means shifting a bum like Keita as part of the deal, all the better.

 

Otherwise it's going to be a long old season.

 

I agree with the shouts about Elliott too, he won't make it, which is a shame, I think that injury has done for him.

While I havent been overly impressed by Elliott its way too early to write a kid like him off. Its looking like he will be thrown in at the deep end though.

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12 hours ago, Baltar said:

I never understood why Gini had his critics among the fans. The guy was a machine, could play 90 minutes, every game and never get injured. He was light years above every midfielder we have barring Hendo, Fab and Thiago. Unlike those 3, we could rely on him to be available for every game. He also popped up with the odd goal, something we rarely see from any other midfielder we have. We really should have been in for him when PSG made him available. We might have a lot of numbers in midfield but only 3 of them (when fit) are of the required standard, the rest are not good enough, or not ready to be regulars.

I know what you mean, he was unsurpassed when we needed our dominant midfield to see out a game and ensure the opposition didn't regroup; but he sometimes went missing when it was an even battle. I think he was a reliable midfielder, and a great team player, as he never got stroppy about doing the heavy lifting. He can be an attacking player, but he always did what his manager wanted him to do for the benefit of the team. Many lesser players get "leg" status. World class smile, too.

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15 hours ago, Baltar said:

I never understood why Gini had his critics among the fans. The guy was a machine, could play 90 minutes, every game and never get injured. He was light years above every midfielder we have barring Hendo, Fab and Thiago. Unlike those 3, we could rely on him to be available for every game. He also popped up with the odd goal, something we rarely see from any other midfielder we have. We really should have been in for him when PSG made him available. We might have a lot of numbers in midfield but only 3 of them (when fit) are of the required standard, the rest are not good enough, or not ready to be regulars.

I hope you're sitting comfortably...

 

https://www.teamtalk.com/manchester-united/georginio-wijnaldum-denied-sensational-premier-league-return-big-hitters-despite-eagerness-join

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