Jump to content
Mil-ing Around

Our midfield

Recommended Posts

It is funny that for a manager that likes high intensity football, most of our midfielders are pretty unatheltic. 

 

And the likes of Henderson and Thiago are at the point in their careers where they simply can't be at full tilt every week. They can turn it on at the right time sometimes, but on a week to week basis, it will get dubious.

 

And the injuries are a piss take.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, MegadriveMan said:

I don't think Jones will ever make it here.

 

I think he's just not quite good enough and I don't think he is suited to the way we want our midfield to play.

I tend to agree.

 

He does not seem quick enough upstairs to me....always wants too long on ball, too long to think.

 

I hope we are wrong, and i hope this is a breakthrough year for him - we need it to be.

 

It is so frustrating though that so many of us have been shouting up what we see as our problems in midfield, but we look like we are not going to deal with them.

 

We have a brilliant squad and we are very good - but there really is one area we could improve in and for me should improve in and it is our midfield - if we are not successful this year, it is highly likely going to be because of those problems in midfield.

 

So frustrating as i feel we are literally two class midfielders  - one defensive and one more attacking away from having the perfect squad.

 

But we can't and won't get them until we get rid of dead wood like Oxlade.

 

Our midfield options contain too many injury prone and too many unproven players in it - the balance and mix/blend is not right and it really does need work to get it right.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Moo said:

The "numbers" are being bulked out by kids who should be nowhere near a first team hoping to win the PL and CL.  Yes have kids in there if they are good enough, we know the type we mean, we've seen them with our own eyes, we have one at right back. 

But these ones are not good enough yet.

Their development does not have to be blocked, they can go on loan and bring them back when they're closer to being good enough, if ever.

It's just an excuse.

I thought Guardiola made an interesting comment the other day when they missed out on Cucarella. He said that the world is a big place and there are plenty of players that can fit into their system.

I look at us and I struggle to think, to a degree, why it is not the same. People talk about us not being able to improve on our first choice 3 and while there may be some truth in that, can we really not improve what is behind it?

Pep Lijnders the other day made the comment that Thiago couldn't feel his feet in the mins ahead of the final and yet he was still preferred over Naby! While I appreciate that it was a CL final I do think it says something about our depth. 

Also, and I haven't heard the whole interview so expect it maybe out of context but I really don't get Jürgen's comment about us being unlucky with injuries. Naby has spent the vast majority of his time here injured/unavailable, Thiago has a history of missing games and the Ox too. Ok, the issue with Naby this weekend is a cold or something but how many games do those 3 need to miss before we start to say its not down to luck! 

Personally the lack of energy and athleticism in our midfield 3 concerns me. Today, Milner had more to give than the other 3. I get he is a machine but he is 36. I just don't buy that there aren't players out there that could improve our squad. 

I am not after us knee jerking into a purchase but do they really look at the data and think we will be ok? 

Lijnders said the other day that they were desperate to get Diaz in during Jan and pushed Ward and the owners for 6 weeks beforehand while, at the same time, saying publically nothing was going to happen. Hopefully something similar is happening behind the scenes now.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Carvalho Diablo said:

It seemed to me that early on today, particularly Thiago, was trying to dictate the play by spraying a few passes around.

 

Premature, surely a team has to earn that right, by first getting stuck in and winning the ball and imposing ourselves upon our opponents.

 

We are terribly short of ball winners. Fabinho is one but he is very slow around the pitch. Crying out for an aggressive young midfielder who's got self-confidence and who's keen on a tackle.

 

Get stuck in, win the ball, earn the right to play.

On the face of it, normally, I would rather we didn't do this style of play in our first couple of games of the season because players are rusty, touches can be off.  But we just came off the back of a fabulous Charity Shield game, so it just seemed we were going to carry on where we left off.

 

Excuses are being made for the pitch, very slow and a bit long. Maybe that's the difference, that passes took half a second longer to complete and that bought Fulham enough time to put more pressure on the receiver.  Also those who did receive and control it without losing it felt rushed as they played the next pass, which affected the quality of the pass.  And so on. Maybe. 

 

But the biggest issue for me was Firmino being of zero threat, and so Fulham's defence felt empowered to squeeze up, reducing the size of pitch, enabling them to press us on the ball.  Klopp has already set-out his love of Firmino this season, so what follows is on Klopp.  It all seems like a silly hill to fight a battle on. 

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, an tha said:

I tend to agree.

 

He does not seem quick enough upstairs to me....always wants too long on ball, too long to think.

 

I hope we are wrong, and i hope this is a breakthrough year for him - we need it to be.

 

It is so frustrating though that so many of us have been shouting up what we see as our problems in midfield, but we look like we are not going to deal with them.

 

We have a brilliant squad and we are very good - but there really is one area we could improve in and for me should improve in and it is our midfield - if we are not successful this year, it is highly likely going to be because of those problems in midfield.

 

So frustrating as i feel we are literally two class midfielders  - one defensive and one more attacking away from having the perfect squad.

 

But we can't and won't get them until we get rid of dead wood like Oxlade.

The not that really gets me is that I think we can afford another midfielder (financially) or two and still keep the Ox (if we have to).

I don't see that we cannot afford a moderate net spend after the last 2 summers and our run last season and our wage bill must be light of last season as well.

If Jürgen is saying he cannot get the player he wants then ok. I just hope it is not down to finances because while having 10 midfielders would be kinda ridiculous if the 2 you buy improve your first team and stay for years so what? You can get rid of the deadwood next summer when contracts expire. We probably wouldnt need to buy a midfielder for 4-5 years anyway. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Problem is we can't unload the shite like Oxlade.

 

I am convinced we would have sold him this summer - just needed him to stay fit, play a few pre-season games and he'd have been sold.

 

Nobody is going to want to look at him now he is injured again and has had no pre-season, so we are stuck with him and he eats up a big wage.

 

It probably shouldn't be a problem to a club of our means, but we are run as a very tight ship and i'd wager that we won't see a midfielder come in until we see one go - and of course it looks highly likely that is not going to happen now  whether that is the "right" thing or not is of course a discussion, but i feel it is very much the stance the club are taking.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Colonel Bumcunt said:

On the face of it, normally, I would rather we didn't do this style of play in our first couple of games of the season because players are rusty, touches can be off.  But we just came off the back of a fabulous Charity Shield game, so it just seemed we were going to carry on where we left off.

 

Excuses are being made for the pitch, very slow and a bit long. Maybe that's the difference, that passes took half a second longer to complete and that bought Fulham enough time to put more pressure on the receiver.  Also those who did receive and control it without losing it felt rushed as they played the next pass, which affected the quality of the pass.  And so on. Maybe. 

 

But the biggest issue for me was Firmino being of zero threat, and so Fulham's defence felt empowered to squeeze up, reducing the size of pitch, enabling them to press us on the ball.  Klopp has already set-out his love of Firmino this season, so what follows is on Klopp.  It all seems like a silly hill to fight a battle on. 

To be honest, I can see their point a little but come on. They warmed up on the pitch for 30 mins before the game, they are better players than Fulham, Fulham play slick inter passing with the ball on the ground.

It's hardly like we arrived late, didn't get chance to get a feel for the pitch and then they were knocking it long like 1980's Wimbledon 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't understand why we're not dealing with this problem? It's ridiculous that we are still relying on crocks like Ox and Keita, and while Thiago is class we know he's also brittle. Henderson and Fabinho also aren't the best with injuries. The only reliable midfielder we had in terms of fitness was Gini and we've still not replaced him. Kids like Jones, Elliott and Carvalho are not good enough yet at this level to replace the quality experienced players we have in midfield.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, an tha said:

Problem is we can't unload the shite like Oxlade.

 

I am convinced we would have sold him this summer - just needed him to stay fit, play a few pre-season games and he'd have been sold.

 

Nobody is going to want to look at him now he is injured again and has had no pre-season, so we are stuck with him and he eats up a big wage.

 

It probably shouldn't be a problem to a club of our means, but we are run as a very tight ship and i'd wager that we won't see a midfielder come in until we see one go - and of course it looks highly likely that is not going to happen now  whether that is the "right" thing or not is of course a discussion, but i feel it is very much the stance the club are taking.

 

That is the bit that I would struggle with. Why be so inflexible? 

We paid his wages for the last 6 months on top of Minamino's, Divocks, Sadios and probably some others and didn't play him.

We have shifted those 3 on for decent money and replaced them with Darwin and Fabio (probably for less wages) so isn't there space for one more if we really want them?

What's the difference now? The Ox is again not playing, we have reduced our forward options but we have hit our arbitrary quota for midfielders so we cannot move.

 

I really hope that isn't the logic and it's just because the players Jürgen really wants are not available.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Baltar said:

I don't understand why we're not dealing with this problem? It's ridiculous that we are still relying on crocks like Ox and Keita, and while Thiago is class we know he's also brittle. Henderson and Fabinho also aren't the best with injuries. The only reliable midfielder we had in terms of fitness was Gini and we've still not replaced him. Kids like Jones, Elliott and Carvalho are not good enough yet at this level to replace the quality experienced players we have in midfield.

I don't get why, for a club that bangs on about our data analytics capabilities, it seems to completely pass them by how unreliable a number of our midfielders are.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not only wages but Klopp has had no transfer budget to speak of. Any signings have been covered by fees from sales bar a couple of million. 

 

I think they just use Bellingham as an excuse. He's under contract, Dortmund aren't going to let him go and he'll cost a shitload but the usual media types keep putting it out there that we are only interested in him. But then we won't enter a bidding war. 

 

Just annoying that despite the success rate of our recruitment the club seem so inflexible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, HBenn said:

That is the bit that I would struggle with. Why be so inflexible? 

We paid his wages for the last 6 months on top of Minamino's, Divocks, Sadios and probably some others and didn't play him.

We have shifted those 3 on for decent money and replaced them with Darwin and Fabio (probably for less wages) so isn't there space for one more if we really want them?

What's the difference now? The Ox is again not playing, we have reduced our forward options but we have hit our arbitrary quota for midfielders so we cannot move.

 

I really hope that isn't the logic and it's just because the players Jürgen really wants are not available.

 

Klopp is also big on loyalty and togetherness....he clearly rates Keita, he wants the kids around and involved and he believes in them.....

 

The odd one out is obviously Oxlade and i'd wager heavily Klopp would sell him if he could, but it looks like he can't as simply no takers and until he goes nobody else is coming in - IMHO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, an tha said:

Klopp is also big on loyalty and togetherness....he clearly rates Keita, he wants the kids around and involved and he believes in them.....

 

The odd one out is obviously Oxlade and i'd wager heavily Klopp would sell him if he could, but it looks like he can't as simply no takers and until he goes nobody else is coming in - IMHO.

Agree they probably won't but unless that is Klopp's call because the player he wants is not available I think it's a real frustrating short term false economy accountants approach.

I admire his loyalty to his players, I am sure its why they love him, and his belief that he will come good, I just struggle to see it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, HBenn said:

Agree they probably won't but unless that is Klopp's call because the player he wants is not available I think it's a real frustrating short term false economy accountants approach.

I admire his loyalty to his players, I am sure its why they love him, and his belief that he will come good, I just struggle to see it.

Good point on the pitch earlier.  

 

Yes camaraderie is Klopps forte, but it's always been couched with an impression he would always act in the best interests of results, as we saw with the sales of Lallana and Lovren, two very popular members of the team.  

 

Perhaps the lack of bidders is the bigger problem, he doesn't want to hawk out the likes of Ox and get no responses, while buying a replacement, only to have him 'lingering' around the squad and affecting his, and others', morale? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Colonel Bumcunt said:

Good point on the pitch earlier.  

 

Yes camaraderie is Klopps forte, but it's always been couched with an impression he would always act in the best interests of results, as we saw with the sales of Lallana and Lovren, two very popular members of the team.  

 

Perhaps the lack of bidders is the bigger problem, he doesn't want to hawk out the likes of Ox and get no responses, while buying a replacement, only to have him 'lingering' around the squad and affecting his, and others', morale? 

Yeah, that is a good point, I could see him not wanting to do that with Ox.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, 3 Stacks said:

It is funny that for a manager that likes high intensity football, most of our midfielders are pretty unatheltic. 

 

And the likes of Henderson and Thiago are at the point in their careers where they simply can't be at full tilt every week. They can turn it on at the right time sometimes, but on a week to week basis, it will get dubious.

 

And the injuries are a piss take.

 

They (the midfield) have definitely become more unathletic over time. It's unfair to say they've been like this forever. Klopp is big on loyalty and I guess he doesn't want to just axe people who have given their all for him.

 

The big question is do we accept no title challenge this season, aim for top 4, consolidate and give Elliot and Carvalho first team football for a year and blood them in and buy 2 midfielders next summer?

 

If either of them goes from potential to pushing for a start with 1 years premiership experience it puts us in a good place next year.

 

Problem is we have to also replace Firmino next season too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Mil-ing Around said:

 

They (the midfield) have definitely become more unathletic over time. It's unfair to say they've been like this forever. Klopp is big on loyalty and I guess he doesn't want to just axe people who have given their all for him.

 

The big question is do we accept no title challenge this season, aim for top 4, consolidate and give Elliot and Carvalho first team football for a year and blood them in and buy 2 midfielders next summer?

 

If either of them goes from potential to pushing for a start with 1 years premiership experience it puts us in a good place next year.

 

Problem is we have to also replace Firmino next season too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, we won't accept that and there is no reason to think we can't win the title this season either.

Younger players will be used, gradually bringing them into the fold. 

Once we get one or two lads back from injury we'll look better and healthier. 

I'm also sure the club will be assessing options to bring someone in, perhaps a move forward. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Mil-ing Around said:

 

They (the midfield) have definitely become more unathletic over time. It's unfair to say they've been like this forever. Klopp is big on loyalty and I guess he doesn't want to just axe people who have given their all for him.

 

The big question is do we accept no title challenge this season, aim for top 4, consolidate and give Elliot and Carvalho first team football for a year and blood them in and buy 2 midfielders next summer?

 

If either of them goes from potential to pushing for a start with 1 years premiership experience it puts us in a good place next year.

 

Problem is we have to also replace Firmino next season too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Either way, we're not just going for top 4.

 

I think people struggle with the fact that we were looking to sign Tchouameni and are interested in Bellingham, but at the same time, Klopp trusts the group and is fine indefinitely pushing off signing midfielders. It seems contradictory, but it looks true.

 

I think if you showed Klopp everything that's written about our midfield and its perceived weakness, he'd unironically laugh in your face. And I don't think all that is just about loyalty. It's continuity, knowing the system, the numbers in the squad, versatility, etc...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It needs improving we all know that. Bit younger more energy it just feels laboured at times. Could be fatigue. The injuries we have now it looks grim. I'm really not arsed about paths being blocked for younger players it's for them to win the first 11 spot like every single player that gets to do it.

 

On a side note Firmino just isn't the player he was, he has way way more worse games than good ones. To have a slow midfield but then a slow forward infront it blunts us. Elliot looks lost so often without the ball but then he gets it and looks good he seems really tiny. Getting to 2-2 our attitude should of been better afterwards.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Matheus Nunes could be gettable this window. Unless we have a deal in place for Bellingham next season, I can see us being priced out of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We won't sign anybody. The weakness is glaring Klopp has to answer the question all the time because its so obviously a weak point in our side. Just because we have the numbers it doesn't make them valid options for a side that wants to win a league where you need to be near perfect to do so. It's a bit de ja vu a point were nearly all fans say we need to address this but the club has already made up its mind and it bites us on the arse. Hes stubborn Klopp though and very loyal you can't really knock that when it's his loyalty that goes towards making him great as a manager and as a man.

 

I'm just glad spurs tried to go for Diaz last January because without the boost he gave us I think it would of been a less exciting run at the end of the season. I think there's a good chance the midfield this season will be a copy of our defensive issues a couple of seasons ago. Our options are too injury prone and this is a really hectic season. Obviously this is a glass half empty view, we could after this patch suffer no injuries but still I think we need more from our midfield.

 

Spurs and Arsenal have been ambitious addressing their weakness its a real push to compete, we have been so good the push we need is only a point or two that makes the difference to being champions or also rans, the issue we face is falling behind our own standards. I've said it before we haven't improved the team this season, Mane is a huge loss, Nunez is potential I don't think it's quite like for like yet. Ramsey not a signing for now, carvalho looks great not sure of his position though and how we will utilise him, I thought we may go 4231. I'd like us to be tactically flexible enough that against teams who can do us real damage we don't need Trent to be permanently out of position, it's becoming a proper achillies heal one we don't seem to care about fixing. So easy to spew hyperbole after a bad game because we are generally brilliant. Losing the league by one point and the champions league by one goal was just a kick to the bollokcs, the parade was a good ointment but they still ache.

 

Creating chances seems to be tough, the finals we played we were completely toothless, yesterday we only had 3 shots on target fortunately scored 2. That champions league final burns still though as I genuinely think Madrid were shit, that long season caught up with us, its a massive advantage how la liga facilitate their teams in Europe. I want to see us do something different that Klopp and Ljinders have hinted at. Ljinders said we need change so we are not predictable I don't know if this is further down the line.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, 3 Stacks said:

It is funny that for a manager that likes high intensity football, most of our midfielders are pretty unatheltic. 

 

And the likes of Henderson and Thiago are at the point in their careers where they simply can't be at full tilt every week. They can turn it on at the right time sometimes, but on a week to week basis, it will get dubious.

 

And the injuries are a piss take.

Agree

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

It needs improving we all know that. Bit younger more energy it just feels laboured at times. Could be fatigue. The injuries we have now it looks grim. I'm really not arsed about paths being blocked for younger players it's for them to win the first 11 spot like every single player that gets to do it.

 

On a side note Firmino just isn't the player he was, he has way way more worse games than good ones. To have a slow midfield but then a slow forward infront it blunts us. Elliot looks lost so often without the ball but then he gets it and looks good he seems really tiny. Getting to 2-2 our attitude should of been better afterwards.

Completely agree on the first paragraph. It should be a bloody battle to get into that midfield, nobody deserves a free pass.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is absolutely zero chance Klopp is given funds to buy a midfielder. This is the club that was happy for the club to go through almost an entire season with a makeshift defence in 2020 made up of midfielders and some loan cast offs which ultimately resulted in us surrendering the league title that took us 30 years to win back. 

 

The budget Klopp gets seems to be less and less each summer with him getting nothing this summer as everything was covered by sales. 

 

It makes you wonder just where the money the club earns is going as every other club appears to be able to have a transfer budget. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×