Our midfield

[3 Stacks]

5 minutes ago, VladimirIlyich said:

While you make a fair point about unreliable players being candidates for being 'gone' gone to who,and when? Who will buy them and when will they be bought? How does it help to sell players who we wont replace either?

All 3 of Keita, Milner and Ox have deals that run out next summer. It's absolutely feasible that all 3 could and should go. And then when there's space in the squad, investment can be made.

[Barrington Womble]

There's a gone list of nearly all our midfield in one summer looking at the previous posts. I'm sure we'd find it easier if we got one now and put Chamberlain out to pasture. Then add a couple across the next 2 windows. We really need someone now. And not so he can play next Monday, but because our midfield is full of crisp bags - it'll take time to come up to speed and the new player can then hopefully help us through the post world cup end of the season. 

[HBenn]

48 minutes ago, Carvalho Diablo said:

3 out and 3 in for me. If they can't stay fit then get rid. If they can't run a 100 meters quicker than a nana pushing a tartan shopping trolley then get rid.

 

Milner - gone

Keita - gone

Jonesy - gone

Thiago - love him but gone

Fabinho - you're on notice lad

Hendo - keep as a squad player

Ox - who?

 

Slim pickings.

Feel more and more we need 2. 

 

We need to be able to rest Fabinho and would keep Thiago but not rely on him either. 

 

I don't see us spending big on two though. If, and I know it's a big If, we are going big on Bellingham next summer then think the other would be more like £40m. 

 

If they are available for a bit more now - say £50m hopefully the club will look at it. Playing a different 3 week every week will kill us.

[No2]

I love watching Thiago, I wanted him here since before he went to Bayern. But he's a rear wheel drive BMW in the snow, we won plenty with 3 range rovers in midfield. 

[an tha]

1 hour ago, Barrington Womble said:

There's a gone list of nearly all our midfield in one summer looking at the previous posts. I'm sure we'd find it easier if we got one now and put Chamberlain out to pasture. Then add a couple across the next 2 windows. We really need someone now. And not so he can play next Monday, but because our midfield is full of crisp bags - it'll take time to come up to speed and the new player can then hopefully help us through the post world cup end of the season. 

Yeah.

 

Trying to do it all in one window is not a good idea....trying to bed in too many new players at once and that is if you can get all that you want in one go 

 

Surely better to phase it all over about 3 windows - which IMHO should be this one, Jan and next summer.

 

Out with the deadwood and the finished and in with the sort of peak age/in prime top quality players we need.

[HBenn]

1 hour ago, Barrington Womble said:

There's a gone list of nearly all our midfield in one summer looking at the previous posts. I'm sure we'd find it easier if we got one now and put Chamberlain out to pasture. Then add a couple across the next 2 windows. We really need someone now. And not so he can play next Monday, but because our midfield is full of crisp bags - it'll take time to come up to speed and the new player can then hopefully help us through the post world cup end of the season. 

Completely agree

[Colonel Bumcunt]

All things equal, it's the same midfielders who took us to the cusp of the quadruple less than 3 months ago. 

 

But all things are not equal.  

I think we saw a drop-off from the defence and attack last season as we got further in, and it was at that point, when the midfield needed an extra gear to cover shortcomings elsewhere, that we saw its limits.  Yes by then it was a tired midfield, and it's understandably still not recovered from that, and now injuries have compounded it further.  I fully expect more injuries before it gets better. It's not a case of pre-season mismanagement, it's just the result of playing a record number of competitive games.  There is no witch, it's a lack of a proper break.

[Moo]

It really seems like were going through the gamut of excuses not to sign players, and we're now onto squad size.  Be interested to know how this season's squad size compares to, say, the previous four seasons and how the profile of the players compares.  

[HBenn]

1 hour ago, Colonel Bumcunt said:

All things equal, it's the same midfielders who took us to the cusp of the quadruple less than 3 months ago. 

 

But all things are not equal.  

I think we saw a drop-off from the defence and attack last season as we got further in, and it was at that point, when the midfield needed an extra gear to cover shortcomings elsewhere, that we saw its limits.  Yes by then it was a tired midfield, and it's understandably still not recovered from that, and now injuries have compounded it further.  I fully expect more injuries before it gets better. It's not a case of pre-season mismanagement, it's just the result of playing a record number of competitive games.  There is no witch, it's a lack of a proper break.

Yeah, that's a good point. Sheer volume of games.

[Colonel Bumcunt]

4 minutes ago, HBenn said:

Yeah, that's a good point. Sheer volume of games.

Not just volume, but every single one of those games being 'must-win', across four competitions, with 2 finals going to extra time!

 

And then a fucking meaningless international tournament before many of them get to go on holiday. 

 

There's an element of stopping and starting a super-tanker when it comes to player fitness and sharpness. 

[LFC 6 Times]

Should of got wijnaldum back on loan 

[HBenn]

29 minutes ago, Colonel Bumcunt said:

Not just volume, but every single one of those games being 'must-win', across four competitions, with 2 finals going to extra time!

 

And then a fucking meaningless international tournament before many of them get to go on holiday. 

 

There's an element of stopping and starting a super-tanker when it comes to player fitness and sharpness. 

Yes, I had not thought about all of those things plus, how often do you hear a player say 6 months after a major final loss/league loss that it took them a good while to get over it. 

 

I am not saying that they use it as an excuse but there is probably an element of it still having some impact. An element of working out of their system. 

[etho]

Its clear we need midfield freshening, and alot of our season is dependent on the first four regaining/gaining fitness and staying fit, and how quickly the likes of Elliott and maybe carvalho progress and go to the next level.

It isn't immediately obvious to me who is available who definitely makes our midfield better right now. And if we're signing one or more then surely it's to go into the first team and not just for numbers. Klopp and the rest of the management and recruitment structure clearly feel the same way and hence unless someone becomes available we'll likely go with what we have this season.

 

It may cost us when it comes to the title against man city, and likely when it comes to competing on all four fronts (especially with the world cup) but can live with that as we won the fa and caribao last year. I think that and the transitional phase we now face with our new forward line up may result in a slight drop off. 

On a slightly related note, it's quite depressing to be tearing into this team after two games. I get it's frustrating because the bar is set so high with man city, and we've been matching them for the best part of 4/5 years now. It's very hard to do that! These guys aren't robots.Klopp and this team deserve a huge amount of slack and our support if there is a slight period of adjustment. There is also the fact of the sheer amount of games our players have played with little break for several years now. It may catch up with us slightly.

In any event, we will regroup and come back stronger. We're still alot better than Chelsea spurs and arsenal whose fans are all wanking themselves silly and thinking they might compete with us this season. No chance

[Anubis]

Nunes supposedly having his medical at Wolves today. Get a private car to meet him at the airport and kidnap him.

[VladimirIlyich]

1 hour ago, Anubis said:

Nunes supposedly having his medical at Wolves today. Get a private car to meet him at the airport and kidnap him.

Nah,we'll wait until January and pay Wolves double. It's our genius strategy.

[joe_fishfish]

The other way to get around this issue is to just play less of them. When Konate and/or Matip are back we could play a back three. Spreads the centre backs a bit more, opens up some different passing angles. Gives Trent and Robbo even more of a free role. Moves Fabinho further forward to counter-press higher.

 

Our centre backs are really good at progressing the ball forward, I don't think we lose much from dropping a midfielder to accommodate one more of them. I guess it would require a some deeper positioning from the wide forwards when the opposition have the ball in our final third.

 

Anyway Klopp wouldn't do it, he's firmly wedded to the idea of two centre backs and a guy to mop up in front of them.

[Barrington Womble]

11 hours ago, HBenn said:

Yes, I had not thought about all of those things plus, how often do you hear a player say 6 months after a major final loss/league loss that it took them a good while to get over it. 

 

I am not saying that they use it as an excuse but there is probably an element of it still having some impact. An element of working out of their system. 

It's all the more reason why we should have refreshed it, have a couple in the group who hadn't been through the games and the loss at the end. We should have cut our losses on Chamberlain and not renewed milner and brought in one or two new players. With keita going next summer, thiago will then be into his last year, it wouldn't seem a jump to suggest we could still sign whoever it is we're supposed to be holding out for. 

[Barrington Womble]

2 minutes ago, joe_fishfish said:

The other way to get around this issue is to just play less of them. When Konate and/or Matip are back we could play a back three. Spreads the centre backs a bit more, opens up some different passing angles. Gives Trent and Robbo even more of a free role. Moves Fabinho further forward to counter-press higher.

 

Our centre backs are really good at progressing the ball forward, I don't think we lose much from dropping a midfielder to accommodate one more of them. I guess it would require a some deeper positioning from the wide forwards when the opposition have the ball in our final third.

 

Anyway Klopp wouldn't do it, he's firmly wedded to the idea of two centre backs and a guy to mop up in front of them.

We're not going to just reinvent our style of play like that. We might have made that call through preseason, but absolutely not now. And I'm glad because 3 at the back is shite and with the injury record of our centre backs, we'd need about 40 of them. 

[El Rojo]

5 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

It's all the more reason why we should have refreshed it, have a couple in the group who hadn't been through the games and the loss at the end. We should have cut our losses on Chamberlain and not renewed milner and brought in one or two new players. With keita going next summer, thiago will then be into his last year, it wouldn't seem a jump to suggest we could still sign whoever it is we're supposed to be holding out for. 

Surely we'd have sold Ox if there was any interest? Unfortunately, it's not like other clubs won't be aware of his injury issues. 

[HBenn]

3 hours ago, etho said:

Its clear we need midfield freshening, and alot of our season is dependent on the first four regaining/gaining fitness and staying fit, and how quickly the likes of Elliott and maybe carvalho progress and go to the next level.

It isn't immediately obvious to me who is available who definitely makes our midfield better right now. And if we're signing one or more then surely it's to go into the first team and not just for numbers. Klopp and the rest of the management and recruitment structure clearly feel the same way and hence unless someone becomes available we'll likely go with what we have this season.

 

It may cost us when it comes to the title against man city, and likely when it comes to competing on all four fronts (especially with the world cup) but can live with that as we won the fa and caribao last year. I think that and the transitional phase we now face with our new forward line up may result in a slight drop off. 

On a slightly related note, it's quite depressing to be tearing into this team after two games. I get it's frustrating because the bar is set so high with man city, and we've been matching them for the best part of 4/5 years now. It's very hard to do that! These guys aren't robots.Klopp and this team deserve a huge amount of slack and our support if there is a slight period of adjustment. There is also the fact of the sheer amount of games our players have played with little break for several years now. It may catch up with us slightly.

In any event, we will regroup and come back stronger. We're still alot better than Chelsea spurs and arsenal whose fans are all wanking themselves silly and thinking they might compete with us this season. No chance

I hear what you are saying about the players and my frustration is not really with them. It's more the recruitment spin and the way we are taken for muppets.

The players are picked to play and to be fair I think we are fortunate in that I cannot think of one single player that doesn't look like their trying.

My issue is more with how the situation has been allowed to develop where we are becoming more and more reliant on players that are injury prone and players that are becoming more injury prone/going past their best coupled with a policy, like last and the summer before, of next summer being the big one instead of evolution. The concern being that we will have (arguably already have) too much to do all at once and will then be told "obviously we cannot afford it all".

Then watching us in the first couple of games you see all of the issues that have been raised by fans as a concern (and often mocked or glossed over) and met with surprise that it is happening.

Take Fabinho, an absolute legend, who has run through brick walls for us since he arrived. Now, he looks like he could do with a breather and some rotation and isn't playing that well. Is it his fault? I don't think so. Will he get stick? As long as he trys, not from me but I also don't think he should start every week. Love Thiago, are his injuries annoying? Yes but its not his fault. Would I rely on him? no. 

We have a recruitment team that got us to the top but, talking about our midfield, have they done much to future proof from a position of strength since 2019? Have they done much to improve our options so we can rotate our best players to avoid burnout? No.

Why not? If its because the budget wasn't there due to the pandemic it's not really on anyone but then maybe stop banging on about how they find bargains and are constantly planning and how shrewd they are. We have 9 midfielders for 3 positions!!! It cannot be cost effective and we still go to Old Trafford (probably) relying on a 36/37 yr old to have a blinder!

[joe_fishfish]

20 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

We're not going to just reinvent our style of play like that. We might have made that call through preseason, but absolutely not now. And I'm glad because 3 at the back is shite and with the injury record of our centre backs, we'd need about 40 of them. 

It's not a total reinvention, and three at the back (rather, a 3-4-3) is no worse than any other formation in the hands of a good coach who knows how to get people playing it.

 

But yeah, we're never going to do it.

[HBenn]

19 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

It's all the more reason why we should have refreshed it, have a couple in the group who hadn't been through the games and the loss at the end. We should have cut our losses on Chamberlain and not renewed milner and brought in one or two new players. With keita going next summer, thiago will then be into his last year, it wouldn't seem a jump to suggest we could still sign whoever it is we're supposed to be holding out for. 

I completely agree with you. 

However you just get the feeling that we are being conditioned for a transition phase where results drop off a bit as new players gradually come in and old players leave.

Why we had to do it like that I am not sure. Utd and us had a very successful policy of gradual integration and letting players go before they were past their best for many years. 

We seem to address a need once it has firmly established - Gini replacement, Van Dijk cover - not sure it is any cheaper doing it that way but that appears to be the way. 

[El Dangerous]

Wait until half the midfield fucks off next season and it turns out we already had their replacements in our own squad all along.

[Barrington Womble]

30 minutes ago, El Rojo said:

Surely we'd have sold Ox if there was any interest? Unfortunately, it's not like other clubs won't be aware of his injury issues. 

I used the phrase cut our losses on Chamberlain as I wouldn't have looked for a fee. There seemed a bit of interest in him early in the summer till it was clear we wanted 10m. I'd have just got him out of the way. 

[HBenn]

11 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

I used the phrase cut our losses on Chamberlain as I wouldn't have looked for a fee. There seemed a bit of interest in him early in the summer till it was clear we wanted 10m. I'd have just got him out of the way. 

Me too. I wouldnt even be that bothered if they did the same with Naby. People talk about giving Jones a chance this season and not signing players to block his path. Well why not let him have Naby's minutes. Save some dough and give Jones more time to show he has got what we need.