Summer 2022 Transfer Thread

[TD_LFC]

I just think the idea that Edwards would leave because he has too much to do in a summer a year before that becomes a consideration and two years before it actually happening is a stretch.

 

It certainly plays into a narrative though and so would probably gain a lot of traction, it's a shame really that Julian Wards first two major transfers have been so efficient, it means people (not you) have less to anchor that narrative too.

[HBenn]

2 minutes ago, aRdja said:

Lol yeah HBenn I suppose that’s one possible (if overly convoluted) scenario.

Yeah. Real convoluted for a guy that works 3 windows ahead and is aware of contract negotiations, contract lengths and budgets to look ahead 2 windows and see what could/would likely happen.

I would say he wouldn't be the high calibre sports director he has been made out to be if he didn't do it.

 

[Jose Jones]

2 minutes ago, HBenn said:

Yeah. Real convoluted for a guy that works 3 windows ahead and is aware of contract negotiations, contract lengths and budgets to look ahead 2 windows and see what could/would likely happen.

I would say he wouldn't be the high calibre sports director he has been made out to be if he didn't do it.

 

How could you get a more interesting position though, as a Sporting Director/Transfer/scout guy?

Instead of just a normal summer of one key signing and a couple of youngsters, you get to try and transition to the next great team.

You already have a great set of players to work from plus Klopp who you know will likely make the signings look good. Get that right and you go down as an absolute genius.

Would be very strange to turn that challenge down.

[HBenn]

8 minutes ago, TD_LFC said:

I just think the idea that Edwards would leave because he has too much to do in a summer a year before that becomes a consideration and two years before it actually happening is a stretch.

 

It certainly plays into a narrative though and so would probably gain a lot of traction, it's a shame really that Julian Wards first two major transfers have been so efficient, it means people (not you) have less to anchor that narrative too.

Frankly, its all moot now isn't it? Ward is in role,  like you say seems very capable and perhaps more importantly Jürgen seems very happy while the window is in its infancy. Still a lot can happen.

As I originally said, no one really knows what Edwards motives were and he has gone now so we get behind the guys who are here.

[aRdja]

17 minutes ago, HBenn said:

Yeah. Real convoluted for a guy that works 3 windows ahead and is aware of contract negotiations, contract lengths and budgets to look ahead 2 windows and see what could/would likely happen.

I would say he wouldn't be the high calibre sports director he has been made out to be if he didn't do it.

 

With all due respect HBenn, just read it back yourself, it’s a pretty convoluted make-believe scenario. The more likely scenario is he asked for a raise and he didn’t get, it because as you know the FSG are relatively frugal. The beauty of said scenario is whilst it’s very straightforward, it also allows you to blame it on FSG too, the tight cunts.

[HBenn]

4 minutes ago, Jose Jones said:

How could you get a more interesting position though, as a Sporting Director/Transfer/scout guy?

Instead of just a normal summer of one key signing and a couple of youngsters, you get to try and transition to the next great team.

You already have a great set of players to work from plus Klopp who you know will likely make the signings look good. Get that right and you go down as an absolute genius.

Would be very strange to turn that challenge down.

Maybe he will end up somewhere like Madrid where he won't have the budget restraints or the difficulty attracting players over the likes of RM. Get handsomely rewarded, live in Madrid (give his family a new experience) and build a dream team 

 

[Barrington Womble]

2 hours ago, aRdja said:

We switched to 4-2-3-1 in the last couple of games of the season when we needed a goal. The Athletic posted a lengthy article about it just recently. We also know that it’s a formation Klopp likes. I personally have been championing it here for the past two years at least. You’ve also got your logic mixed up, Fabinho and Thiago are *that* good we don’t really need another body in there, let’s throw an attacking player instead. 

We absolutely didn't. We had 4 forwards on the pitch and depending who the 4 were it was either 424 or 4213. Klopp has done this when we're chasing a game since we've gone 433 and he had the bench, which he hasn't always. 

2 hours ago, El Rojo said:

True enough. He was just one part of a great system.  Klopp was likely very easy for him to work with by football manager standards. I'd strongly suspect that's the exception rather than the rule among football managers. 

And it wasn't a good system before klopp. You would like to think he's smart and learnt from the experience (for his own benefit), but it really doesn't mean he has. 

2 hours ago, aRdja said:

Txiki Begiristain hasn’t done too bad! 

Does that count? I think I could do his job. "How can I spend another 50m on a shit full back?". 

[Babb'sBurstNad]

Edwards announces he's leaving, Klopp extends. Coincidence?

[aRdja]

27 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

We absolutely didn't. We had 4 forwards on the pitch and depending who the 4 were it was either 424 or 4213. Klopp has done this when we're chasing a game since we've gone 433 and he had the bench, which he hasn't always. 

They’re just semantics aren’t they let’s be honest. To move this discussion forward, I’m happy to call it 4-2-1-3 instead of 4-2-3-1, and have Maddison as the 1 behind the three forwards. The point is our centre midfielders are so good we don’t need all three to be on the pitch at the same time all the time; two of Hendo, Fabinho and Thiago would be enough against any team bar City, and we could play an attacking player instead like Maddison or Bobby.

[Torvald Utne]

Can we stop taking about maddison please? I'm starting to feel sick

[HBenn]

6 minutes ago, aRdja said:

With all due respect HBenn, just read it back yourself, it’s a pretty convoluted make-believe scenario. The more likely scenario is he asked for a raise and he didn’t get, it because as you know the FSG are relatively frugal. The beauty of said scenario is whilst it’s very straightforward, it also allows you to blame it on FSG too, the tight cunts.

Tbh, your view about it being purely down to money just doesn't really add up. But, yeah, just use the lazy approach that it's "just a ploy to have a dig at FSG".

 

Edwards has been FSG's man for years. Promoted him, praised him at every opportunity and made him central to all football decisions.

 

He and Klopp have made them billions. At the first chance they have to renew Klopp's contract they renew heaven and earth to do it. Why wouldn't they do it to Edwards? It's nonsensical to say they wouldn't. You don't kill the golden goose. 

 

People on here are saying there are rumours that he was against Hendo, Milly being renewed and Jürgen stepped in.

 

The same source that reported the difficulties about the Hendo talks (The Athletic), a week after its sorted, says there is an issue with his talks.

 

The same source 6 months later when Klopp renews and again when Rohrbeck returns suggest there was friction between the pair. 

 

If that were true, I doubt he has walked due to one single contract renewal but maybe more a series of things that mean they are headed in different directions. 

 

I just don't see it is that far fetched to look at our squad, see how many players are heading into the final year of their contract and/or are already in their 30's and think maybe the guy who was responsible for planning ahead and avoiding that scenario maybe would have preferred to have done things differently.

 

It could well be down to the realities of the financial impact of the pandemic that has prevented him doing it and he wants a fresh challenge.

 

 

[cloggypop]

1 hour ago, No2 said:

I'm done with the game if Edwards joins another English club.

I'm going to burn my Michael Edwards t-shirt. 

[HBenn]

1 hour ago, Aventus said:

Maybe he forseen the midfield problem and got Thiago in before Gini left.

Likewise with getting Diaz in before Mane left. 

The only issue with that is that Thiago and Gini are very similar age and a casual look at his appearances tell you he misses lots of games with injury. Plus they knew after his medical (so Thiago has said) that he is managing a long term injury.

You don't typically replace a midfielder with someone the same age and expect that to be future proofing the squad. Sure he fulfils a purpose and is absolute class when he plays but he isn't a long term solution is he?

[aRdja]

18 minutes ago, HBenn said:

Tbh, your view about it being purely down to money just doesn't really add up. But, yeah, just use the lazy approach that it's "just a ploy to have a dig at FSG".

 

Edwards has been FSG's man for years. Promoted him, praised him at every opportunity and made him central to all football decisions.

 

He and Klopp have made them billions. At the first chance they have to renew Klopp's contract they renew heaven and earth to do it. Why wouldn't they do it to Edwards? It's nonsensical to say they wouldn't. You don't kill the golden goose. 

 

People on here are saying there are rumours that he was against Hendo, Milly being renewed and Jürgen stepped in.

 

The same source that reported the difficulties about the Hendo talks (The Athletic), a week after its sorted, says there is an issue with his talks.

 

The same source 6 months later when Klopp renews and again when Rohrbeck returns suggest there was friction between the pair. 

 

If that were true, I doubt he has walked due to one single contract renewal but maybe more a series of things that mean they are headed in different directions. 

 

I just don't see it is that far fetched to look at our squad, see how many players are heading into the final year of their contract and/or are already in their 30's and think maybe the guy who was responsible for planning ahead and avoiding that scenario maybe would have preferred to have done things differently.

 

It could well be down to the realities of the financial impact of the pandemic that has prevented him doing it and he wants a fresh challenge.

 

You see it with the players. FSG like their wage structures, and with all the hype we’ve seen around Edwards over the past 5 years, there’s little doubt he would’ve asked for a pay increase, anyone would. We’ve seen FSG refuse to break their wage structure even for the very best player in the world in Mo Salah, so we know that’s how they operate. FSG would see the recruitment team as greater than the sum of its parts, and as such would be happy to let him go and see him replaced with his second in command.
 

The task at hand here, trying to replace one star one window at a time, is far less challenging than it would be at Chelsea under the new ownership having to replace their entire backline, and the shitshow that is Man Utd.

[TheHowieLama]

24 minutes ago, Torvald Utne said:

Can we stop taking about maddison please? I'm starting to feel sick

May need to cough up a fiver to Usher so I can rep this.

[Barrington Womble]

24 minutes ago, aRdja said:

They’re just semantics aren’t they let’s be honest. To move this discussion forward, I’m happy to call it 4-2-1-3 instead of 4-2-3-1, and have Maddison as the 1 behind the three forwards. The point is our centre midfielders are so good we don’t need all three to be on the pitch at the same time all the time; two of Hendo, Fabinho and Thiago would be enough against any team bar City, and we could play an attacking player instead like Maddison or Bobby.

So I wouldn't agree with that actually. I think there's been a number of games this season where we have been too easy to play through, including when the main 3 are on the pitch - we might have had 70% of possession, but we were weak without the ball. When a team pitches up and has no plans of going forward, sure you can change your plan and play 2 midfielders. But if that becomes our default set up, teams would quickly work that out and realise they could damage us through the midfield. That's before we discuss what would happen when we faced the best teams - we either get spanked or have to invent a new formation for those matches. It all seems very un-klopp like, who likes the starting positions of his 433 and tweaks that as required, but it's tweaks as opposed to structural changes, which is what seems to be discussed with the idea of dropping a midfield player. 

[TD_LFC]

The most likely answer is he fancied a break, evidenced by the idea he planned on taking a break and, short of doing a Stuart Webber, the easiest way of getting a break from the job you're in is to leave and then try something else in the future.

 

All this convoluted wage structure, rebuild two years down the line, hated Milner nonsense is just that. 

 

 

[HBenn]

2 minutes ago, aRdja said:

You see it with the players. FSG like their wage structures, and with all the hype we’ve seen around Edwards over the past 5 years, there’s little doubt he would’ve asked for a pay increase, anyone would. We’ve seen FSG refuse to break their wage structure even for the very best player in the world in Mo Salah, so we know that’s how they operate. As Jose Jones said, the task at hand here is far less challenging than it would be at Chelsea under the new ownership having to replace their entire backline, and the shitshow that is Man Utd.

Yeah, I am sure he has but I personally don't think money would ever have been an obstacle to them renewing on Jurgen. He makes them too much money for them to be that stupid.

Edwards I imagine the same. Longer term he would have held more value to them to Mo or Sadio.

 

[gkmacca]

16 minutes ago, cloggypop said:

I'm going to burn my Michael Edwards t-shirt. 

You want to burn it in instalments, but leave enough to pass on to someone else, with a burn-on clause just in case they get pissed off with him too.

[TD_LFC]

10 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

It all seems very un-klopp like, who likes the starting positions of his 433 and tweaks that as required, but it's tweaks as opposed to structural changes, which is what seems to be discussed with the idea of dropping a midfield player. 

Yep, don't know if I said it in this thread or the midfielder one but;

 

We line up in a 433 but it quickly changes to a version of 4231 with Fabinho and Thiago forming a two and the third midfielder playing ahead of them in a more advanced role. Later in the game that third midfielder usually makes way for another forward when we transition to a more obvious 424/4231.

 

It's why I said that third midfield spot will be the most substituted this season as we alternate between attacking midfielders (Elliot, Henderson, Jones, Keita) and more traditional No.10's (Carvalho, Firmino) depending on the situation in game.

 

I can see the third midfielder being the preference to start the game and and the 10's coming on late game if needed when we're playing tougher opposition (or to get a run out) and occasionally we'll start a No.10 to give more attacking impetus and bring on a no.8 when we want to control games.

[aRdja]

15 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

So I wouldn't agree with that actually. I think there's been a number of games this season where we have been too easy to play through, including when the main 3 are on the pitch - we might have had 70% of possession, but we were weak without the ball. When a team pitches up and has no plans of going forward, sure you can change your plan and play 2 midfielders. But if that becomes our default set up, teams would quickly work that out and realise they could damage us through the midfield. That's before we discuss what would happen when we faced the best teams - we either get spanked or have to invent a new formation for those matches. It all seems very un-klopp like, who likes the starting positions of his 433 and tweaks that as required, but it's tweaks as opposed to structural changes, which is what seems to be discussed with the idea of dropping a midfield player. 

I would like to see it given a go as a genuine alternative. We know Klopp likes the setup. He won a number of trophies with Dortmund playing said formation and we started most games in the first half of 2018/19 with that setup (Shaq on the right and Bobby behind Salah).

 

We also know that we’ve players who are comfortable in that setup; Thiago won MOTM in the CL final playing alongside Kimmich in 4-2-3-1, Fabinho excelled in that setup with Monaco, so did Naby with Leipzig, etc.

 

Thiago and Fabinho are world class, not many players can get near them, let’s trust them and play another attacking player instead.

[3 Stacks]

Didn't Edwards say in his farewell thing that he was always gonna go after 10 years at the club, or something like that? To try something new and so there would be healthy turnover at the club. 

 

We can think that's not true and say that he was secretly seething at everybody so he quit, but we could also just read what he actually said and take some of it at face value instead of inventing theories. 

[Barrington Womble]

3 minutes ago, TD_LFC said:

Yep, don't know if I said it in this thread or the midfielder one but;

 

We line up in a 433 but it quickly changes to a version of 4231 with Fabinho and Thiago forming a two and the third midfielder playing ahead of them in a more advanced role. Later in the game that third midfielder usually makes way for another forward when we transition to a more obvious 424/4231.

 

It's why I said that third midfield spot will be the most substituted this season as we alternate between attacking midfielders (Elliot, Henderson, Jones, Keita) and more traditional No.10's (Carvalho, Firmino) depending on the situation in game.

 

I can see the third midfielder being the preference to start the game and and the 10's coming on late game if needed when we're playing tougher opposition (or to get a run out) and occasionally we'll start a No.10 to give more attacking impetus and bring on a no.8 when we want to control games.

I also think there's more to it than that. We always talk about these formations as 4xxxx , yet our full backs play the game vastly different to each other and slightly different game to game - where they go often depends on the make up of the midfield. The different things we were doing with Elliot in the side for example, is different to when Henderson was in the same position or keita. 

 

But I agree with your view, we will continue to start each game with a frameworks of 433 and work from there. 

[index1000]

16 hours ago, Bjornebye said:

Jack Whitehall is one annoying unfunny cunt 

any grown man who calls their Father Daddy should be put down

[Barrington Womble]

9 minutes ago, aRdja said:

I would like to see it given a go as a genuine alternative. We know Klopp likes the setup. He won a number of trophies with Dortmund playing said formation and we started most games in the first half of 2018/19 with that setup (Shaq on the right and Bobby behind Salah).

 

We also know that we’ve players who are comfortable in that setup; Thiago won MOTM in the CL final playing alongside Kimmich in 4-2-3-1, Fabinho excelled in that setup with Monaco, so did Naby with Leipzig, etc.

 

Thiago and Fabinho are world class, not many players can get near them, let’s trust them and play another attacking player instead.

Klopp might have liked the setup at dortmund but that was a decade ago. And he's talked a few times about why he thinks 433 is better in this country. I don't think for klopp it is about what he's done before, he will always evolve, but I think what his 433 brings him is lots of room to evolve and change, but within a framework that brings certain characteristics if we assume the 3 and the 3 are 3 midfielders and 3 forwards. It's worked wonderfully well for him - people keep saying we've been worked out. They were saying that through the 2nd half of last season. A half of season that saw us go unbeaten and not drop a point outside the top 4. That's the type of being worked out I can get on board with.