Arsenal (H) - CC Semi Final 1st (not 2nd!) leg, Thu 13th Jan 2022 (7:45pm)

[stringvest]

1 minute ago, J-V said:

We're not getting any money from the Yanks, he's 28 soon. should be second choice already, been poor since last year and we really can't afford to have his form continue on to when his value becomes next to nothing all like Firmno, Henderson. We obviously won't shift him.

We can keep him as back up and for rotation though.

[3 Stacks]

6 minutes ago, stringvest said:

do you watch how much space Jota creates compared to Bobby?  I rest my case.

They don't even play the same role. I don't know why anyone would compare Jota to Firmino, except to say who is playing better at their own game, yet you've made it your life's work for whatever reason.

 

Firmino is meant to essentially be a half forward half midfielder. When we had a workmanlike Hendo-Gini-Fabinho midfield, he'd be the central link between Salah and Mane and would add density to the middle and made use harder to break down because he played nominally deeper. Jota is a pure attacker, he does none of this. He's just a much more dangerous goal threat.

[J-V]

3 minutes ago, stringvest said:

We can keep him as back up and for rotation though.

I did edit my post and said that but you must have quoted already.

[Boss]

We fucked up by letting Gini's contract run down and giving Henderson the new deal.

[Jairzinho]

2 minutes ago, Boss said:

I reckon you could get rid of Bobby, Origi, Henderson, Ox, Milner, Naby and Minamino with virtually no loss to the team. They're 6 out of 10 players. The whole league is full of them.

You could replace them with one mobile central midfielder and one goalscoring wide forward and the squad would be much better. 

 

Would anyone pay us anything for any of the seven of them? 

 

And what are we paying them? Three quarters of a million a week? As much as the owners clearly are massive mingebags, what a colossal waste of the resources that we do have that lot are. 

[J-V]

2 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

You could replace them with one mobile central midfielder and one goalscoring wide forward and the squad would be much better. 

 

Would anyone pay us anything for any of the seven of them? 

 

And what are we paying them? Three quarters of a million a week? As much as the owners clearly are massive mingebags, what a colossal waste of the resources that we do have that lot are. 

There's some bosmans floating around currently that improve on them.

[stringvest]

1 minute ago, 3 Stacks said:

They don't even play the same role. I don't know why anyone would compare Jota to Firmino, except to say who is playing better at their own game, yet you've made it your life's work for whatever reason.

 

Firmino is meant to essentially be a half forward half midfielder. When we had a workmanlike Hendo-Gini-Fabinho midfield, he'd be the central link between Salah and Mane and would add density to the middle and made use harder to break down because he played nominally deeper. Jota is a pure attacker, he does none of this. He's just a much more dangerous goal threat.

but you're reading what it says on the years old packet rather than using your own eyes to actually see what is going on.  Go and watch the match back again.  Concentrate on where Jota and Firmino are with and without the ball.  Who is making runs and making space.   

[Boss]

Just now, Jairzinho said:

You could replace them with one mobile central midfielder and one goalscoring wide forward and the squad would be much better. 

 

Would anyone pay us anything for any of the seven of them? 

 

And what are we paying them? Three quarters of a million a week? As much as the owners clearly are massive mingebags, what a colossal waste of the resources that we do have that lot are. 

 

Agreed. We should just sell them. This holding out for maximum value thing is stupid. We've got duds that have been proven shite for 3-4 years still in the squad. It costs us £835,000 a week in wages for those seven.

[George Costanza]

4 minutes ago, stringvest said:

We can keep him as back up and for rotation though.

I'd say its a pity we don't have such good options elsewhere on the pitch as we do at left back.  That is what we should be aiming for.

 

Left back is the least of our issues right now. Tsimikas after a slow start is ever improving and has probably been our best LB this season so far, Robertson has plenty of credit in the bank and the current drop off can easily be attributed to the amount of football he has played in the last 4 years. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

27 minutes ago, Code said:

Liverpool without Salah and Mane is what I imagine The Beatles would be without Lennon and McCartney. 

And with George playing the recorder (equivalent of Jota playing everywhere except the penalty box).

[3 Stacks]

8 minutes ago, stringvest said:

but you're reading what it says on the years old packet rather than using your own eyes to actually see what is going on.  Go and watch the match back again.  Concentrate on where Jota and Firmino are with and without the ball.  Who is making runs and making space.   

Firmino still provides what I described. His dynamism going forward on top of those other skills have in fact declined,though, I'm not blind to this. I don't think anyone is.

 

Yes, Jota makes more runs, he's a true forward, that's what he does. I don't need to watch a game again, especially not this one, it will give me an aneurysm.

[johnsusername]

I'm not sure 4-3-3 works as well when it's not the first team. 

[VladimirIlyich]

8 minutes ago, Boss said:

We fucked up by letting Gini's contract run down and giving Henderson the new deal.

Why does it always have to be either/or? We should have kept both or replaced one. This is the Yanks MO now. Klopp has made a rod for his own back by performing miracles. It is unlikely to happen again.

[Trumo]

That was wank. Be better next week, and win!

[Code]

I remember when we signed Minamino, people were claiming he was Salzburg’s best player and that it made a lot more sense to sign him instead of Haaland. I did not really notice much of him myself in any of the games against us.

 

That said,  I think he was one of our better players tonight, but that miss at the end was criminal. 
 

Id personally take Haaland though. 
 

 

[VladimirIlyich]

Its still 0-0 against Arsenal FFS. Yes we were a bit shit but Arsenal were absolute wank. If we want to win next week we can.

[Joey8FrogsLegs]

12 minutes ago, George Costanza said:

I'd say its a pity we don't have such good options elsewhere on the pitch as we do at left back.  That is what we should be aiming for.

 

Left back is the least of our issues right now. Tsimikas after a slow start is ever improving and has probably been our best LB this season so far, Robertson has plenty of credit in the bank and the current drop off can easily be attributed to the amount of football he has played in the last 4 years. 

Sorry George, you’re getting it wrong there. Robertson is either the best left back in the world, or he’s completely useless and must be moved on immediately. No in-between.

 

 

[lebron]

Well, that was a bit of a wasted opportunity. I'm pretty confident we'll do them in the 2nd leg, but would have been nice to put a bit of belief into the players and crowd against 10 men.

 

For all of Klopp's greatness, his decision to go with that midfield tonight just baffles me. How many fucking times does he need to see Henderson and Milner at the 8 together before he understands we create zero with them! They are just too limited as midfielders to be playing centrally together. We can't even use them in the games against top opposition anymore, as the likes of Mount, Kovacic, Silva and de Bruyne run rings around them. Milner played as well as he could against Chelsea last time out (Hendo should have been taken off), but he was still clearly inferior to the opposition midfielders.

 

What about our captain though? I'll be forever grateful for his involvement in number 19 and 6, but I think it's pretty clear he's now back to being the "Jordan fucking Henderson" of the early threads on here. Tonight was another disgraceful performance from him, and he must be the most cowardish central midfielder on the ball playing regularly in Europe's top 5 leagues. He was by FAR the worst player on the pitch in a game where Milner, Jota, Robbo and Trent completely stunk the place out. 

 

Anyway, back to Klopp. Once Arsenal retreated after the sending off, Ox and Curtis should have been sent to warm up, and one of them (at least) should have been introduced instead of Milner or Henderson, both would have been fine with me. Mystifying, and a complete waste of time to keep those two on for the next 15. I can sort of symptathise with Milner, his legs are clearly gone, and he does what he can with his experience and nous, it's just not enough anymore. Hendo was even worse than him, but you just don't take off your captain in a 0-0 game at half time I suppose.

 

Against these "low block" teams (as Arsenal became after the sending off), the number one priority is to present them with dilemmas from the player on the ball. Even more than in "normal" games, open affairs, you need players that are able to take on, dribble and shoot from distance. It's no coincidence that the only real chances we created were after Milner and Henderson vacated the 8's, and Curtis, Ox (and even Neco) started running at people. Watching Henderson lay the ball off to Milner, Fabinho, Gomez etc is just not going to do it!

 

Finally, a word on our delivery from crosses/set pieces tonight. How abysmal was it? I don't think we can afford to bench Trent, but Robbo should be 2nd choice now, he's been crap bar 3 games this season, and Tsimikas has been MUCH better than him at both ends of the pitch. For Brentford, another team that will present a low block, we should go;

 

-----------------------------Allison--------------------------

 

Trent----------Matip-----------Vvd-----------Tsimikas

 

--------------------------Fabinho--------------------------

----------Ox-----------------------------Jones---------------

---Minamino/Gordon----------Firmino-------------Jota-----

 

Don't really care who gets put in the RW position, as long as Jota is on the left (where he's much better). As long as the can give Trent the outside to put balls towards Firmino and Jota we should be able to create a bit of chaos. Also, with Ox and Jones starting, hopefully Firmino doesn't have to drop all the way into midfield to get on the ball, like he had to tonight because of Milner and Henderson's ineptness (and Robbo/Trent's shockers).

 

[Boss]

4 minutes ago, Code said:

I remember when we signed Minamino, people were claiming he was Salzburg’s best player and that it made a lot more sense to sign him instead of Haaland.

 

Personally I think he was one of our better players tonight, but that miss at the end was criminal. 
 

Id personally take Haaland though. 

 

It's almost as if the 19-year old who scored 28 goals in 22 games and scored 8 goals in the Champions League group stage was likely to turn out to be the better player.

[lebron]

10 minutes ago, Code said:

I remember when we signed Minamino, people were claiming he was Salzburg’s best player and that it made a lot more sense to sign him instead of Haaland. I did not really notice much of him myself in any of the games against us.

 

That said,  I think he was one of our better players tonight, but that miss at the end was criminal. 
 

Id personally take Haaland though. 
 

 

 

I think people got mixed up thinking him and Hwang (at Wolves) was the same player, the commentary team doing our two matches definitely did!

 

Haaland was never really an option for us, his path had already been mapped out at that stage, and it didn't include a stint on our bench. As much as i despise Raiola and his like, he's actually done a brilliant job with giving Haaland suitable platforms to nurture his obvious physical attributes. I guess his father should get a lot of credit too. Firstly going to Molde, a free-scoring team with the best attacking midfielders in the league. Then Salzburg, where them being an even more outstanding team in a slightly stronger league meant he'd score lots too. finally to Dortmund, where the creativity of Sancho, Reus, Hazard and co. gave him plenty of space to work with in a league where the mid- and lower-table teams seem to be a lot more open and progressive than most of their PL counterparts.

I still maintain that Haaland will struggle a lot more for goals in all the top sides here (maybe with the exception of City), but it was pretty obvious to most people that he was the one with the higher potential in that RB side.

 

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

42 minutes ago, Trumo said:

That was wank. Be better next week, and win!

Exactly. Shit it out. Move on.

 

I'm already mellowing a little bit and thinking that there were quite a few there who haven't played much football for a wee while.  They need competitive games to get their proper sharpness.  Let's just twat the Goons next week. 

[Jose Jones]

Forward line without Mo (and Sadio) is a worry.  What was Klopp doing putting Jota on the right though?  Stupid decision that.  We could really do with Kaide Gordon developing into the best 18 year old winger in the world in time for the weekend, because we haven't got anyone else with a left foot.

 

[John102]

10 minutes ago, Jose Jones said:

Forward line without Mo (and Sadio) is a worry.  What was Klopp doing putting Jota on the right though?  Stupid decision that.  We could really do with Kaide Gordon developing into the best 18 year old winger in the world in time for the weekend, because we haven't got anyone else with a left foot.

 

Impossible. He isnt 18 until October.

[Red74]

Klopp said Haaland wanted a starting place and there was no way he was getting in before Firmino so we passed on him. A lot of other clubs passed on him too because of his demands but he’d have been fucking brilliant for us.

 

Bobby does not create space or problems for centre halves. He makes it easy for the opposition by making sure he gets nowhere near the ball when we attack or heads back to the halfway line leaving no threat in front of them. This is why Robbo passes back because he’s got no one to aim for. 
 

We've needed a striker who can provide an option in the middle, can hold the ball up and look to get on the end of everything that goes into the box. Doesn’t have to be a 6ft 3 striker. Suarez was brilliant for us and a young version of him would be perfect in this team. 
 

Klopp doesn’t trust Ox, Origi & minamino so why keep them. These plus Kieta have been here far too long and should have been farmed out at the end of last season yet they’re still here losing confidence and are giving us nothing. 
 

The kids are a couple of years away from starting regularly for us and we shouldn’t be persisting with shite until they’re ready. 
 

Get the cheque book out you cunts. He shouldn’t have to sell before he can buy. 

[Scott_M]

We’ll qualify next week.

 

Keep your tampons in.