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2 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

Is Vlahovic skillful? I've not seen much of him, genuinely asking the question. I kind of doubt he has a high level technically. 

 

There's no doubt he can score goals, though. My idea of him is like Haaland or Lukaku. More of a battering ram and physically dominant. Is that correct?

Not overly. Good technique, but doesn't do anything fancy. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, chrisbonnie said:

Is he really only 21? I didn't know that. 

 

The funny thing, I can't even remember him playing when Serbia played Ireland last year, he was anonymous to be honest. 

 

I do watch a bit of serie a, but just the games bt show, which is usually the Milan teams, napoli and juve, I'll have to make it my business to actually watch the next fiorentina game when it's on. 

 

I know, it's mad. He looks like he's about 28. All the games are on BT Sport.

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4 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

Not overly. Good technique, but doesn't do anything fancy. 

 

 

Hhhm, yeah. Not sure that kind of player compliments the forwards we have. 

 

I doubt we'd be interested in the likes of him, but if Klopp and the club was down to spend money for him, you'd have to back them to have a plan. They've earned some trust that way. Tough to turn your nose up at a young player with his goal record.

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31 minutes ago, Babb'sBurstNad said:

Have to disagree there. For me, the key to any definition of a classic number 9 is the question of whether they're there when the ball enters the box. Rush et al would be. Bobby, good player though he is, frequently isn't, as he ambles towards the edge of the area, having linked up play more like a 10. Hence the old 9 and a half tag.

 

You could argue the system dictates as such, with him acting as a pivot for Mané and - in particular - Salah to make those runs from angles between CB and fullback, but his positioning isn't that of a traditional 9. There's a reason Jota gets a fair few headed goals, and it's because he's on the goalkeeper's toes when a cross comes in, like a traditional centre forward.

Being in the box is a small, but significant part of their game. But that's about hunger, not role. Platt, Lampard, Charlton all had that from midfield.

 

In terms of goals, some of the greatest goalscorers post 442 era (Ronaldo, Messi, Salah, Suarez, Griezmann, Mbappe) are nowhere near the traditional #9.

 

Bobby does everything else a #9 should do though, and way more that Jota does.

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6 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

Is Vlahovic skillful? I've not seen much of him, genuinely asking the question. I kind of doubt he has a high level technically. 

 

There's no doubt he can score goals, though. My idea of him is like Haaland or Lukaku. More of a battering ram and physically dominant. Is that correct?

 

He's skilful in the way that Harry Kane is. He's efficient at keeping hold of the ball when a defender tries to take it off him, that's all. He doesn't do stepovers and stuff like that. What I really mean is he's not a carthorse target man. He knows how to play football and has a good first touch. 

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1 minute ago, m0e said:

 

 

Bobby does everything else a #9 should do though, and way more that Jota does.

That's just simply not true.   Jota both links the play better, presses and wins possession better, retains possession better, and scores and assists more.   You're referring to a player that no longer exists anymore; the Firmino of three years ago.

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5 minutes ago, stringvest said:

That's just simply not true.   Jota both links the play better, presses and wins possession better, retains possession better, and scores and assists more.   You're referring to a player that no longer exists anymore; the Firmino of three years ago.

Yes, I am referring to that player, and I saw him doing some of that again before his injury this season.

 

Furthermore, Jota can't hold the ball up, and doesn't really link the play well at all, in my opinion. And when he does, it's often from wide left.

 

He's most certainly a better option now, but I won't be happy with either as our #9 next season, to be honest.

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1 minute ago, stringvest said:

That's just simply not true.   Jota both links the play better, presses and wins possession better, retains possession better, and scores and assists more.   You're referring to a player that no longer exists anymore; the Firmino of three years ago.

Play Jota upfront and use any money on another wide attacker to fit the system. 

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2 minutes ago, VERBAL DIARRHEA said:

Play Jota upfront and use any money on another wide attacker to fit the system. 

he does play upfront, but he's recently had to come very deep to get involved in the play when we are struggling to break teams down.  I don't know why we'd be looking to move Jota on - he's certainly surpassed expectations.  I don't think we'd get anything for Firmino in the market - he'll end up going back to Brazil on a free.

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4 minutes ago, stringvest said:

he does play upfront, but he's recently had to come very deep to get involved in the play when we are struggling to break teams down.  I don't know why we'd be looking to move Jota on - he's certainly surpassed expectations.  I don't think we'd get anything for Firmino in the market - he'll end up going back to Brazil on a free.

I mean keep him up top mate sorry if it seemed unclear. Diaz I have seen a bit of, not for me.

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4 minutes ago, Babb'sBurstNad said:

If we're taking away goals, and being in the box - in comparison to Jota - how is Firmino a 9? Surely there are some aspects of a role you can't simply look past?

Firmino needs replacing at the moment Jota is the alternative, I like Jota and unless we can get that out and out no9 who can link and score we would have to change the system.

Halaand could do it and obviously Lewandovski both out of reach and one ageing too, their could be others. Alternatively buy a top wide man who is flexible as Jota is getting better, Bobby not so. 

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3 minutes ago, VERBAL DIARRHEA said:

Firmino needs replacing at the moment Jota is the alternative, I like Jota and unless we can get that out and out no9 who can link and score we would have to change the system.

Halaand could do it and obviously Lewandovski both out of reach and one ageing too, their could be others. Alternatively buy a top wide man who is flexible as Jota is getting better, Bobby not so. 

Agreed. I still think Firmino is a useful player to have around though. When he drops deep he's closer to an AM, and can help add a body in midfield.

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18 minutes ago, Babb'sBurstNad said:

If we're taking away goals, and being in the box - in comparison to Jota - how is Firmino a 9? Surely there are some aspects of a role you can't simply look past?

Agreed. So why look past the other stuff that Jota can't do?

 

Unless you're suggesting Jota is the perfect #9. In which case, we'll just have to disagree.

 

I also don't buy the idea that a "traditional #9" will mess with our system. Jota has shown that Bobby doesn't 'make' the system, which was the initial prognosis, because we had nothing to compare.

 

Although, you can also make the case that we've won nothing with Bobby not in the 9.

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15 minutes ago, m0e said:

Agreed. So why look past the other stuff that Jota can't do?

 

Unless you're suggesting Jota is the perfect #9. In which case, we'll just have to disagree.

 

I also don't buy the idea that a "traditional #9" will mess with our system. Jota has shown that Bobby doesn't 'make' the system, which was the initial prognosis, because we had nothing to compare.

 

Although, you can also make the case that we've won nothing with Bobby not in the 9.

It's pretty much a different shape when Jota plays up front instead of Firmino, because Firmino plays deeper, but Jota also fits our style so it doesn't really matter that much. Although, we're worse in some ways when Jota plays, and worse in others when Firmino plays.

 

I don't think that then means you can simply take a static no9 and plug him in our tactics.

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3 minutes ago, m0e said:

Agreed. So why look past the other stuff that Jota can't do?

 

Unless you're suggesting Jota is the perfect #9. In which case, we'll just have to disagree.

 

I also don't buy the idea that a "traditional #9" will mess with our system. Jota has shown that Bobby doesn't 'make' the system, which was the initial prognosis, because we had nothing to compare.

 

Although, you can also make the case that we've won nothing with Bobby not in the 9.

I'd certainly not suggest Jota was the perfect 9. But he's closer than current-form Firmino to what I'd expect a number 9 to be, namely in the box and taking shots. The extra things Bobby does are like the list of assets a support striker would bring.

 

On your last point, there's certainly an argument to be made that our midfield looks slightly weaker without him dropping deep though. 

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19 minutes ago, Babb'sBurstNad said:

Agreed. I still think Firmino is a useful player to have around though. When he drops deep he's closer to an AM, and can help add a body in midfield.

He would be great in a 4231 I reckon.

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56 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

It's pretty much a different shape when Jota plays up front instead of Firmino, because Firmino plays deeper, but Jota also fits our style so it doesn't really matter that much. Although, we're worse in some ways when Jota plays, and worse in others when Firmino plays.

 

I don't think that then means you can simply take a static no9 and plug him in our tactics.

I don't know what a static #9 is.

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9 minutes ago, m0e said:

I don't know what a static #9 is.

The type aRdja wants to sign. A striker like Calvert-Lewin or Bamford who stays central, can't play other positions, doesn't really change positions, during games like our forwards do. I think it's easier to call it that since we have trouble defining what "proper 9" means.

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26 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

The type aRdja wants to sign. A striker like Calvert-Lewin or Bamford who stays central, can't play other positions, doesn't really change positions, during games like our forwards do. I think it's easier to call it that since we have trouble defining what "proper 9" means.

Is Lewandowski a static #9?

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I don't see the point in a striker being able to play on the left or the right. Does Lewandowski play on the wing? No. Does it weaken them that he doesn't? No. Do you see Salah playing on the left or Mane playing on the right or Bobby playing either position? The only one that occasionally alternates is Jota, and he's actually worse for it. It stops him from truly mastering one role. This is Rodgers bollocks.

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