Steven Gerrard - Aston Villa Manager

[KMD7]

42 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

I was replying to the post which said we should go after the top 2 coaches in the world.

Apologies if it wasnt clear.

His stock has risen considerably over the last 4 years and rightly so.

 

Fair enough mate.

[dockers_strike]

14 hours ago, Josef Svejk said:

Didn't say Gerrard had to win a league title. He's not going to do that at Villa, anyway. Even if he does a great job there. 

 

But I've honestly no idea why we're so obsessed with the idea of bringing him back as a manager. Maybe he'll justify doing so, though the odds are against it. One way or another, I'm happy to remember him as a great player and to hire managers on the basis of merit rather than sentiment. 

Well apart from the twitterati, I dont think most people are obsessed with him becoming manager just because he was a legend here as a player. I think many people will be happy with Stevie becoming manager if he continues his upwards trend.

 

Personally, I dont get why some people have this 'he shouldnt be anywhere near managing this club' attitude. And no, you didnt say that either.

 

Yes, different time and all that but there was nothing to say the King would turn out to be a great manager when he took over. A lot's made about him having Bob's ear, ignoring Joe was Kenny's immediate predecessor plus, Kenny was his own man and personally I doubt he was even regularly asking Bob what to do.

 

On the wider question of what qualifies someone to be manager of Liverpool, while having won a couple of titles seems at first reasonable, the reality is it severely restricts the options.

 

For starters, what league titles, La Liga, Bundesliga, Serie A? Effectively, you're only considering ex Real and Barcelona managers. Bundesliga, ex Bayern, Serie A, ex Juve. Not sure ex managers from those clubs would be a good fit for Liverpool myself.  Ligue Un, Eredivisie, elsewhere, usually dominated by one club, are they big enough titles?

 

I dont think it's wise to limit the field so much.

[Boss]

We spent a decade in the wilderness trying to hark back to the days of Kenny, Bill and Bob. The league is entirely different now. You've got three teams with unlimited oil money, United have the biggest revenue streams in world football, and the whole league is filled with high-level players. Back then it was mostly cannon-fodder with some decent teams thrown in. 

 

You can't replicate them, and thinking that way will be the cause of our demise. We just have to hire the best man available for the job. Whether that's Tuchel, Ten Hag or Pochettino, who knows, but that's what we have to do. Ironically, that's the model that got us Jurgen in the first place. He was the best manager available, and we never looked back. 

[KMD7]

59 minutes ago, Boss said:

We spent a decade in the wilderness trying to hark back to the days of Kenny, Bill and Bob. The league is entirely different now. You've got three teams with unlimited oil money, United have the biggest revenue streams in world football, and the whole league is filled with high-level players. Back then it was mostly cannon-fodder with some decent teams thrown in. 

 

You can't replicate them, and thinking that way will be the cause of our demise. We just have to hire the best man available for the job. Whether that's Tuchel, Ten Hag or Pochettino, who knows, but that's what we have to do. Ironically, that's the model that got us Jurgen in the first place. He was the best manager available, and we never looked back. 

Correct

[VladimirIlyich]

4 hours ago, diamondjoe said:

It'll end in tears if he manages us, guaranteed. Gary Mac as his no 2? May as well have Sammy Lee there or Thommo. 

Hope I'm proved wrong but I doubt it. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sammy Lee and Thommo were excellent number 2's to their respective managers. I do have doubts over Gary Mac given his poor record as a manager but those different roles aren't mutually exclusive.

[Barrington Womble]

20 hours ago, Boss said:

We spent a decade in the wilderness trying to hark back to the days of Kenny, Bill and Bob. The league is entirely different now. You've got three teams with unlimited oil money, United have the biggest revenue streams in world football, and the whole league is filled with high-level players. Back then it was mostly cannon-fodder with some decent teams thrown in. 

 

You can't replicate them, and thinking that way will be the cause of our demise. We just have to hire the best man available for the job. Whether that's Tuchel, Ten Hag or Pochettino, who knows, but that's what we have to do. Ironically, that's the model that got us Jurgen in the first place. He was the best manager available, and we never looked back. 

We didn't spend years in the wilderness because we were trying to hark back. We spent years in the wilderness because Graeme souness is a fucking bellend and has no man management skills. Roy Evans just wasn't strong enough to do the main job (especially in the back drop of Souness), which regardless of if the club would admit it or not, it's why he wasn't appointed manager when Kenny and Souness got it. But look where we finished under Evans, it wasn't shambolic, it just wasn't titles every year as we'd become used to. The next 2 managerial appointments were perfectly fine (well aside from botching the double manager thing) and were just unlucky they'd didn't work out. 

 

If Gerrard is the right manager for us, we probably won't know till he gets the job, the same as most managers. 

 

You also have to consider while LFC is a major place to come and work, it doesn't mean some of the "best" managers are right for us. We have an ownership they will expect a manager to deliver top 4 every year and get to the last 8 of the CL, but won't invest in buying players the way other clubs will. Some managers just won't want that. Some just won't succeed without the big backing. 

 

Steven Gerrard has done a fine job at rangers. We'll see soon if he does the same at villa. I don't know what will be seen as a good job and personally I didn't think he needed a midtable Prem job to show his worth or what getting 6th and an fa cup proves. I think he could have built his CV at rangers doing well in Europe, although I picked something up off 5live this week which suggests he told rangers he'd done as well as he can in Europe without greater funds. So maybe this is part of his reason to move. But I would say that doesn't bode so well for here. Does he have to win the UEFA cup with villa to be seen as a success? 

 

I want us to hark back to how we did things before, the stability around the club and the backroom staff was the bedrock of the continued success from bill to Kenny. It doesn't matter if it was another footballing time. The principles of good staff and stability was the key to success. If we can hold on to jurgen's backroom team (and I see no reason why we won't as he's having a year off), then it opens the door to many more managers imo than It otherwise would, as it's about the team effort of the non-playing staff every bit as much as it is the manager. They help each other and you build success from their complimentary skills. And some of the skills for the managers job (such as managing in a goldfish bowl, losing 1 game is a disaster, understanding the weight of the club, can command the respect of the dressing room) Gerrard has in abundance. Klopp is a great delegator and providing we don't shit the bed and wipe out his backroom team, then klopp's biggest gift to us is the structure he's built that would hopefully carry us through any transition. 

 

 

[Barrington Womble]

2 hours ago, VladimirIlyich said:

Sammy Lee and Thommo were excellent number 2's to their respective managers. I do have doubts over Gary Mac given his poor record as a manager but those different roles aren't mutually exclusive.

Personally I think if Gerrard takes the job here, Lijnders will be his number 2. I'm sure SG will want to find a role for Gary Mac, but any chance Gerrard has of succeeding at Liverpool if he's offered the job in the summer of 24, is if he builds on what klopp has left. 

 

Him taking the villa job is different. The current backroom team have failed, which is why the manager has been sacked. So it's natural for Gerrard to want to bring his team with him. But the Liverpool gig would hopefully be different and he will be taking over in what we would expect to be very positive circumstances for a role that is vacant because klopp wants a change. 

[Bjornebye]

8 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

Personally I think if Gerrard takes the job here, Lijnders will be his number 2. I'm sure SG will want to find a role for Gary Mac, but any chance Gerrard has of succeeding at Liverpool if he's offered the job in the summer of 24, is if he builds on what klopp has left. 

 

Him taking the villa job is different. The current backroom team have failed, which is why the manager has been sacked. So it's natural for Gerrard to want to bring his team with him. But the Liverpool gig would hopefully be different and he will be taking over in what we would expect to be very positive circumstances for a role that is vacant because klopp wants a change. 

Theres one here for him now if he cleans his boots 

[Boss]

26 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

We didn't spend years in the wilderness because we were trying to hark back. We spent years in the wilderness because Graeme souness is a fucking bellend and has no man management skills. Roy Evans just wasn't strong enough to do the main job (especially in the back drop of Souness), which regardless of if the club would admit it or not, it's why he wasn't appointed manager when Kenny and Souness got it. But look where we finished under Evans, it wasn't shambolic, it just wasn't titles every year as we'd become used to. The next 2 managerial appointments were perfectly fine (well aside from botching the double manager thing) and were just unlucky they'd didn't work out. 

 

If Gerrard is the right manager for us, we probably won't know till he gets the job, the same as most managers. 

 

You also have to consider while LFC is a major place to come and work, it doesn't mean some of the "best" managers are right for us. We have an ownership they will expect a manager to deliver top 4 every year and get to the last 8 of the CL, but won't invest in buying players the way other clubs will. Some managers just won't want that. Some just won't succeed without the big backing. 

 

Steven Gerrard has done a fine job at rangers. We'll see soon if he does the same at villa. I don't know what will be seen as a good job and personally I didn't think he needed a midtable Prem job to show his worth or what getting 6th and an fa cup proves. I think he could have built his CV at rangers doing well in Europe, although I picked something up off 5live this week which suggests he told rangers he'd done as well as he can in Europe without greater funds. So maybe this is part of his reason to move. But I would say that doesn't bode so well for here. Does he have to win the UEFA cup with villa to be seen as a success? 

 

I want us to hark back to how we did things before, the stability around the club and the backroom staff was the bedrock of the continued success from bill to Kenny. It doesn't matter if it was another footballing time. The principles of good staff and stability was the key to success. If we can hold on to jurgen's backroom team (and I see no reason why we won't as he's having a year off), then it opens the door to many more managers imo that. It otherwise would, as it's about the team effort of the non-playing staff every bit as much as it is the manager. They help each other and you build success from their complimentary skills. And some of the skills for the managers job (such as managing in a goldfish bowl, losing 1 game is a disaster, understanding the weight of the club, can command the respect of the dressing room) Gerrard has in abundance. Klopp is a great delegator and providing we don't shit the bed and wipe out his backroom team, then klopp's biggest gift to us is the structure he's built that would hopefully carry us through any transition. 

 

You've made some assumptions there that I just don't believe are accurate. Firstly, if Klopp leaves us, the chances are he'll work somewhere else, which means his backroom staff will go with him. The fitness coach, the nutritionist, Peter Krawietz, Linders etc. So we need a new team of people to come in and manage the club, and with all due respect to Michael Beale and Gary Mac, I don't think they're on the same level.

 

Secondly, it does matter that it was a different time because your perceptions of Shankly, Kenny and Paisley are shaped by the competition they faced. It would've been different if they had to contend with three oil clubs every season. You can divorce the reality we face now from your rose-tinted view of the past, but Stevie wouldn't live in that reality, he'd be living in the one with three oil clubs.

[Barrington Womble]

2 hours ago, Boss said:

 

You've made some assumptions there that I just don't believe are accurate. Firstly, if Klopp leaves us, the chances are he'll work somewhere else, which means his backroom staff will go with him. The fitness coach, the nutritionist, Peter Krawietz, Linders etc. So we need a new team of people to come in and manage the club, and with all due respect to Michael Beale and Gary Mac, I don't think they're on the same level.

 

Secondly, it does matter that it was a different time because your perceptions of Shankly, Kenny and Paisley are shaped by the competition they faced. It would've been different if they had to contend with three oil clubs every season. You can divorce the reality we face now from your rose-tinted view of the past, but Stevie wouldn't live in that reality, he'd be living in the one with three oil clubs.

Klopp has already said he plans to take a year out when he finishes at Liverpool. So we have one point of reference for what happens in 2024 and it is backroom staff either accept they join him on a year out, or they get on with the job here. I would be amazed if those conversations have not already happened at LFC. I despise those cunts in Boston, but they're not stupid. 

 

I don't really understand what oil clubs have got to do with it. In fact preserving our backroom team becomes more important in this instance. 

 

If you think we should be aiming for the "next klopp" when klopp goes, you're kidding yourself. Fellas like him don't grow on trees. And that's not just because he's the world's best manager, but it's because of what he can achieve with the resources we give him. If we aim for a supposed "top manager" most would be unlikely to want the poisoned challis the job would be in that situation. 

 

Our only possible way to compete is to continue to ensure the sum of the parts does not come close to the whole. All we can do is aim to over achieve and we'll need more than just a good manager to do it. Fortunately klopp has put together the building blocks for us to be able to succeed when he's gone. 

[Bjornebye]

9 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

Klopp has already said he plans to take a year out when he finishes at Liverpool. So we have one point of reference for what happens in 2024 and it is backroom staff either accept they join him on a year out, or they get on with the job here. I would be amazed if those conversations have not already happened at LFC. I despise those cunts in Boston, but they're not stupid. 

 

I don't really understand what oil clubs have got to do with it. In fact preserving our backroom team becomes more important in this instance. 

 

If you think we should be aiming for the "next klopp" when klopp goes, you're kidding yourself. Fellas like him don't grow on trees. And that's not just because he's the world's best manager, but it's because of what he can achieve with the resources we give him. If we aim for a supposed "top manager" most would be unlikely to want the poisoned challis the job would be in that situation. 

 

Our only possible way to compete is to continue to ensure the sum of the parts does not come close to the whole. All we can do is aim to over achieve and we'll need more than just a good manager to do it. Fortunately klopp has put together the building blocks for us to be able to succeed when he's gone. 

He said that after Dortmund. I'll cry seeing him in his first press conference at another club. Can see maybe Inter or AC Milan for some reason. Fuck that I won't even watch it. I'm pissed off now. 

[Mook]

My Dad was speaking to his mate, who is a season ticket holder at Villa Park & he reckons Gerrard will be shit for them.

 

They don't deserve him, jumped up fucking twats.

 

Somehow I'd like him to do really well & for them to get relegated at the same time.

[Ne Moe Imya]

8 hours ago, dockers_strike said:

On the wider question of what qualifies someone to be manager of Liverpool, while having won a couple of titles seems at first reasonable, the reality is it severely restricts the options.

 

For starters, what league titles, La Liga, Bundesliga, Serie A? Effectively, you're only considering ex Real and Barcelona managers. Bundesliga, ex Bayern, Serie A, ex Juve. Not sure ex managers from those clubs would be a good fit for Liverpool myself.  Ligue Un, Eredivisie, elsewhere, usually dominated by one club, are they big enough titles?

 

I dont think it's wise to limit the field so much.

Think this is spot on.

 

You can't limit the field to managers who have won league titles because then all you do is ensure that you're picking the leftovers of other clubs and/or managers who won the title in a one- or two-team league.

 

You have to say "who has done the best with the resources they've had?" So if a manager has been given roughly the 15th-best squad for several years and yet always manages to finish top four, then I wouldn't mind him in the mix for the Liverpool job. Because odds are we can give him the 2nd-4th best squad in the league and he might win it (given that we're rarely going to have the best squad in the league, given the finances at 3, possibly four now, of the other clubs).

[Arniepie]

8 hours ago, Boss said:

We spent a decade in the wilderness trying to hark back to the days of Kenny, Bill and Bob. The league is entirely different now. You've got three teams with unlimited oil money, United have the biggest revenue streams in world football, and the whole league is filled with high-level players. Back then it was mostly cannon-fodder with some decent teams thrown in. 

 

You can't replicate them, and thinking that way will be the cause of our demise. We just have to hire the best man available for the job. Whether that's Tuchel, Ten Hag or Pochettino, who knows, but that's what we have to do. Ironically, that's the model that got us Jurgen in the first place. He was the best manager available, and we never looked back. 

Weirdly enough I thought during the 70s and 80s was infinitely more competitive than it is now?(wasnt there a period where a different team won the league each year for about 7 years?

You also had the likes of villa and forest wimming the European cup.

I remember fergusson once dismissing our achievements in the 70s and 80s..seems he was right 

[Red_or_Dead]

6 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

Weirdly enough I thought during the 70s and 80s was infinitely more competitive than it is now?(wasnt there a period where a different team won the league each year for about 7 years?

You also had the likes of villa and forest wimming the European cup.

I remember fergusson once dismissing our achievements in the 70s and 80s..seems he was right 

The 70s had seven different league champions.

The 80s had four different league champions.

The 90s had five different league champions.

The 00s had three different league champions.

The 10s had four different league champions.

 

So, prior to the 80s the league was definitely more competitive.  Worst bit was from 96 to 2011 when Utd, Arsenal and Chelsea had them all sewn up.

 

[Arniepie]

18 minutes ago, Red_or_Dead said:

The 70s had seven different league champions.

The 80s had four different league champions.

The 90s had five different league champions.

The 00s had three different league champions.

The 10s had four different league champions.

 

So, prior to the 80s the league was definitely more competitive.  Worst bit was from 96 to 2011 when Utd, Arsenal and Chelsea had them all sewn up.

 

Doesnt sound much like cannon fodder to me?

Personally I'd say there was more cannon fodder around now where you can virtually predict who will be relegated before the season starts.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

Personally I think if Gerrard takes the job here, Lijnders will be his number 2. I'm sure SG will want to find a role for Gary Mac, but any chance Gerrard has of succeeding at Liverpool if he's offered the job in the summer of 24, is if he builds on what klopp has left. 

 

Him taking the villa job is different. The current backroom team have failed, which is why the manager has been sacked. So it's natural for Gerrard to want to bring his team with him. But the Liverpool gig would hopefully be different and he will be taking over in what we would expect to be very positive circumstances for a role that is vacant because klopp wants a change. 

What if Klopp wants to take his team where he goes? 

 

Just seen @Bosshas already raised this. 

[George Costanza]

Gerrard has done well in his fledgling managerial career so far.  His record last season for Rangers was phenomenal but he still had an advantage over most of the league.  That said so did Jurgen at Dortmund but to beat Bayern for 2 consecutive seasons was so impressive.  Gerrard has left before trying to complete back to back titles so can't compare him there.

 

In terms of our next manager, winning titles is not the main characteristic I would look at. Simpy becuase so many domestic teams have such an advantage over their rivals that it makes wiinnng almost a formality.  I would look at those managers who have excelled against a more powerful/dominant rival or in the case of for example Ten Haag excelled on a european front against far wealthier teams.  With FSG we are never going to be the biggest spenders so we have to make it up in other ways.  Employing a flat track bully that has won multiple titles with the best/most expensive squad isn't going to cut it imo

[Barrington Womble]

1 hour ago, Bjornebye said:

He said that after Dortmund. I'll cry seeing him in his first press conference at another club. Can see maybe Inter or AC Milan for some reason. Fuck that I won't even watch it. I'm pissed off now. 

He did say it after Dortmund and the next season started and got to about this stage before we moved for him - so if it was to be replicated, do you think all his staff would quit their jobs waiting for the right club to fire a manager that would make klopp come back earlier? He's as likely to end up in the Eddie Howe amount of time out of work, not because he won't be in demand, but because he will wait for the right club/job, which may also be international and wouldn't require such a backup team. Also,  while leaving on good terms at Dortmund, it was also pretty much deemed his methods had stopped working at the end, so his team were out regardless. Hopefully that won't be the case here as he will still have us competitive to some extent, well as much as the fsg purse strings will allow. 

[Mook]

10 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

Doesnt sound much like cannon fodder to me?

Personally I'd say there was more cannon fodder around now where you can virtually predict who will be relegated before the season starts.

The entire league other than the top three or four teams is shite at the moment.

[Barrington Womble]

8 minutes ago, Shooter in the Motor said:

What if Klopp wants to take his team where he goes? 

As I mentioned before, he wants to take a year out. It would seem pretty unlikely he will know exactly where he wants to go, because jobs have to become available. So would you drop your career for a year while your boss found a new job and you don't even know what cojnteu that would be in? And I believe as individuals they would also have a say in the matter - as will their spouses and kids etc. Again, as I mentioned in another post, I can't believe for a minute fsg are not already working to ensure they want to stay here and not follow klopp. In fact it would be an abject failure of C-level management if that is allowed to happen. 

 

In most cases managers bring their guys with them because they've been sacked as a team (so they're all out of work) or they're poached as a team and they're getting an opportunity elsewhere because someone else has been sacked, so there's more than one headcount to fill. It's not like klopp isn't giving us notice here. Obviously there's still a chance that fsg might persuade him to stay longer. But if it stays as it is today, we don't have to accept the idea of losing all of the non-playing football staff with him. In fact if fsg have had foresight they'd have discussed and hopefully agreed that he wouldn't do that at the end of his tenure. 

[Arniepie]

19 minutes ago, George Costanza said:

Gerrard has done well in his fledgling managerial career so far.  His record last season for Rangers was phenomenal but he still had an advantage over most of the league.  That said so did Jurgen at Dortmund but to beat Bayern for 2 consecutive seasons was so impressive.  Gerrard has left before trying to complete back to back titles so can't compare him there.

 

In terms of our next manager, winning titles is not the main characteristic I would look at. Simpy becuase so many domestic teams have such an advantage over their rivals that it makes wiinnng almost a formality.  I would look at those managers who have excelled against a more powerful/dominant rival or in the case of for example Ten Haag excelled on a european front against far wealthier teams.  With FSG we are never going to be the biggest spenders so we have to make it up in other ways.  Employing a flat track bully that has won multiple titles with the best/most expensive squad isn't going to cut it imo

Spot on and its nothing something we have done in the past.

Rafa certainly fell into that category.

[Arniepie]

14 minutes ago, Mook said:

The entire league other than the top three or four teams is shite at the moment.

Exactly 

I was arguing against the point that in the past the league was made up of cannon fodder when in reality it was much more competitive than it is now

 

[DalyanPete]

4 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

We didn't spend years in the wilderness because we were trying to hark back. We spent years in the wilderness because Graeme souness is a fucking bellend and has no man management skills. Roy Evans just wasn't strong enough to do the main job (especially in the back drop of Souness), which regardless of if the club would admit it or not, it's why he wasn't appointed manager when Kenny and Souness got it. But look where we finished under Evans, it wasn't shambolic, it just wasn't titles every year as we'd become used to. The next 2 managerial appointments were perfectly fine (well aside from botching the double manager thing) and were just unlucky they'd didn't work out. 

 

If Gerrard is the right manager for us, we probably won't know till he gets the job, the same as most managers. 

 

You also have to consider while LFC is a major place to come and work, it doesn't mean some of the "best" managers are right for us. We have an ownership they will expect a manager to deliver top 4 every year and get to the last 8 of the CL, but won't invest in buying players the way other clubs will. Some managers just won't want that. Some just won't succeed without the big backing. 

 

Steven Gerrard has done a fine job at rangers. We'll see soon if he does the same at villa. I don't know what will be seen as a good job and personally I didn't think he needed a midtable Prem job to show his worth or what getting 6th and an fa cup proves. I think he could have built his CV at rangers doing well in Europe, although I picked something up off 5live this week which suggests he told rangers he'd done as well as he can in Europe without greater funds. So maybe this is part of his reason to move. But I would say that doesn't bode so well for here. Does he have to win the UEFA cup with villa to be seen as a success? 

 

I want us to hark back to how we did things before, the stability around the club and the backroom staff was the bedrock of the continued success from bill to Kenny. It doesn't matter if it was another footballing time. The principles of good staff and stability was the key to success. If we can hold on to jurgen's backroom team (and I see no reason why we won't as he's having a year off), then it opens the door to many more managers imo that. It otherwise would, as it's about the team effort of the non-playing staff every bit as much as it is the manager. They help each other and you build success from their complimentary skills. And some of the skills for the managers job (such as managing in a goldfish bowl, losing 1 game is a disaster, understanding the weight of the club, can command the respect of the dressing room) Gerrard has in abundance. Klopp is a great delegator and providing we don't shit the bed and wipe out his backroom team, then klopp's biggest gift to us is the structure he's built that would hopefully carry us through any transition. 

 

 

Agree with all of that.

[Arniepie]

4 minutes ago, DalyanPete said:

Agree with all of that.

I'm not Evan's biggest fan but I'd hardly call the period 94-98 the wilderness years