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Captain Turdseye

Steven Gerrard - Aston Villa Manager

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45 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Gerrard took a side that had won the square root of fuck all the previous 5 seasons and went unbeaten and won the league and topped their group in Europe.

 

Rodgers took a side that had won the last 5 titles and 3 of the last 5 big domestic cups and added a few league cups., while getting snotted in Europe.

 

Yea, its close.

Strangely enough ,where rangers where,when Gerrard took over,seems to be convientely overlooked.

The fact that he 'only'wom 1 trophy seems to be the only salient point.

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Gerrard outspent Rodgers. He recruited more players. He finished second twice, and Rodgers beat him directly in one of those title races. He won zero Scottish Cups or League Cups during his tenure and only won the title after Rodgers left. Celtic were in transition the year he won. A lot of Rangers fans actually wanted rid of him in his second season.

 

Rodgers, on the other hand, couldn't have done any more than he did. If he would've stayed a few months more, he would've won three consecutive trebles. Rangers finished third before Gerrard arrived; they were hardly languishing in the lower leagues. Rodgers achievements speak for themselves, and I don't even like the man, and I love Steven Gerrard, but facts are facts.

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On 15/11/2021 at 18:22, Dr Nowt said:

If Stevie was prepared to call FSG’s head honchos ‘The former woman and the potato’ at his unveiling press conference, that would be worth his entire legacy for me. I could die a happy man.

Gerrard turning out to be nightcat would truly be a special day. 

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18 hours ago, Boss said:

 

I said, if Gerrard gets top 4 and gets to the latter stages of the Champions League, he should be hired. All the managers I mentioned have achieved that criteria. You've taken that point and superimposed your own, "what did those managers achieve before they got hired by a big club?". I'm not interested in what they achieved prior. I'm interested in what their CV looks like in 2024. That's the only thing of relevance to our situation. You've even said yourself, you're expecting him to be sacked by Villa. If that's the case, why are you pushing him for the Liverpool job?

 

There are managers far more qualified for the job in this league. Rodgers is more qualified. He won every domestic trophy in Scotland back to back and then almost qualified for the Champions League with Leicester twice. He plays more eye-catching football than Gerrard - from what I've seen. Why should we overlook him - let alone all the managers that are more qualified than Rodgers - just because Gerrard has survived two years at Villa? Assuming, of course, that Rodgers is available at the same time.

I can't carry this discussion on. The managers you're suggesting only got their chance to be top 4 managers by super clubs giving them the opportunity. You're like a trader who buys shares at the top of the price arc. I think you are setting parameters so if Gerrard gets the job you can stamp your feet and say "I always said he wasn't good enough". Our club peers don't set this as a requirement, I don't think we will or should. He won't finish top 4 with villa in 2.5 years. He just won't. In fact likely ever. This season he'll do very well to get them top half. Aston Villa have not finished top 4 since the 1st year of the premier league. And that's before there was 2 oil clubs and 4 other clubs who's revenue streams make them as good as oil clubs as far as villa are concerned. They turned over £112m last year. And while that is without crowds and they may add 20m to it this year, it's still behind Burnley ffs! Honestly, I don't really understand your position on this. 

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2 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

I can't carry this discussion on. The managers you're suggesting only got their chance to be top 4 managers by super clubs giving them the opportunity. You're like a trader who buys shares at the top of the price arc. I think you are setting parameters so if Gerrard gets the job you can stamp your feet and say "I always said he wasn't good enough". Our club peers don't set this as a requirement, I don't think we will or should. He won't finish top 4 with villa in 2.5 years. He just won't. In fact likely ever. This season he'll do very well to get them top half. Aston Villa have not finished top 4 since the 1st year of the premier league. And that's before there was 2 oil clubs and 4 other clubs who's revenue streams make them as good as oil clubs as far as villa are concerned. They turned over £112m last year. And while that is without crowds and they may add 20m to it this year, it's still behind Burnley ffs! Honestly, I don't really understand your position on this. 

 

You're making the presumption that we need to bring him in after Klopp, I'm saying we don't. He needs to learn the trade for longer. Benitez managed us after managing for 11 years. Klopp after 14 years. Steven Gerrard will have 5 years of experience if Klopp steps down in 2024. Why do we need to appoint him then? It'd be much better for Gerrard if he had at least a decade of experience under his belt before he got the job here. We all know he'll one day be manager of the club. That'll actually give him the best chance of succeeding.

 

You can say, "well Kenny did it immediately" but how many Kenny Dalglish's are there that take over as player-manager? You're talking about an anomaly like it's the rule. If you think that Gerrard has 7-8 years at Villa to achieve top 4 - and get into the latter stages of the Champions League - then it's an entirely reasonable expectation. He could also move up the ladder to a Spurs or an Arsenal and achieve that criteria there. At which point he'd be right for us.

 

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Ironically two of the managers you are saying are the greatest managed for 0 years before taking over.

 

The Rodgers fella people are banging on about on here had @ 2.5 years before LFC.

Simeone had 4 ( with like 6 teams) under his belt before taking over at Atletico.

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18 hours ago, m0e said:

Saying Rodgers did a better job than Gerrard is like saying Guardiola did a better job than Klopp, and then pointing to the trophies to justify that statement.

 

The same people who say Zidane isn't a top manager despite 3 CLs on the spin.

I'd say that the jury is out on Zidane even if he's won 3 CL titles at Real. He's been sacked/stepped down once already and they are such a cunt of a club it's difficult to measure success there. At least Guardiola has had success at two clubs even if they are mega rich cunts too.

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1 minute ago, VladimirIlyich said:

My mistake,yes three.

Your point is spot on however - I do not see Zidane translating his success at Real anywhere else. Time/Place.

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26 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Your point is spot on however - I do not see Zidane translating his success at Real anywhere else. Time/Place.

I've yet to meet a Real Madrid fan that actually thinks he's a great manager. 

 

The year they beat us in the final they were out of the title race in La Liga by about January and, with arguably the best squad in the world, could spend about two or three weeks preparing for each game.

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1 hour ago, SlugTrail said:

Well this is an absolute cunt of a thread.

hahahahahaha there are about 14 threads running across the FF and GF that could be described exactly the same. The foodie thread is a fucking catastrophe 

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1 hour ago, SlugTrail said:

Well this is an absolute cunt of a thread.

Yeah. Basically the view varies between Gerrard isnt good enough because he hasnt managed a 'big' club in a 'big' league, hasnt won a title or two in a league deemed worthy or, has to manage a club that could be regarded as one of our rivals when he can then get to fuck because he shouldnt have managed them making them potentially better than us and even winning a title for them is still one short anyway.

 

Or something like that.

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3 hours ago, TheHowieLama said:

Ironically two of the managers you are saying are the greatest managed for 0 years before taking over.

 

The Rodgers fella people are banging on about on here had @ 2.5 years before LFC.

Simeone had 4 ( with like 6 teams) under his belt before taking over at Atletico.

 

Rodgers wasn't ready for us, which was entirely my point. Rodgers nowadays would be better prepared to take on a top job. He wouldn't make some of the stupid mistakes he made during our tenure again, like setting out to pulverise Chelsea when we only needed a point; trying to get the goal difference back against Palace; playing everyone in mad positions like Markovic at left-back, Gomez at left-back and Sterling as a striker. He probably wouldn't come out with the three letters stuff nowadays.

 

The fact is, most of the best managers have a lot of experience. That's not coincidental. And Simeone had close to six years experience. He's another exception to the rule.

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41 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Seems to be a lot of exceptions piling up. 

 

Xavi. Arteta. Both waiting in the wings.

 

Nobody knows what's going to happen with Xavi and Arteta is absolute shite.

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Just now, Boss said:

 

Nobody knows what's going to happen with Xavi and Arteta is absolute shite.

He beats us next week and he will be on top of Klopp in the table. As it stands they are two points behind us with us having a plus 20 GD on them.

 

Wait - what?

 

#waitinginthewings

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11 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

These ex player managers being shite isn't the point, it's that they get chances, often without needing much experience.

 

I don't think some people understand that we're in a very precarious situation when Klopp walks. Teams like Juventus, Bayern, Real Madrid and Barcelona can take chances on unheralded managers because the lowest they'll finish is top 4. They'll play Champions League football regardless of who their manager is. We don't have that luxury. We fuck up this next appointment and we're 8th - if we're lucky. We have the 10th highest net spend in the league. Before Konate it was about 14th. 

 

We need someone that can perform miracles on a shoestring budget. Some of you lot think that FSG are responsible for the success. You'll be in for a rude awakening when Klopp leaves. Klopp has succeeded in spite of FSG, not because of them.

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1 minute ago, Boss said:

Klopp has succeeded in spite of FSG, not because of them.

So what is your point again?

 

That one of the top managers in world ( at that time) will be most likely to perform miracles on a shoestring budget?

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9 minutes ago, Boss said:

 

I don't think some people understand that we're in a very precarious situation when Klopp walks. Teams like Juventus, Bayern, Real Madrid and Barcelona can take chances on unheralded managers because the lowest they'll finish is top 4. They'll play Champions League football regardless of who their manager is. We don't have that luxury. We fuck up this next appointment and we're 8th - if we're lucky. We have the 10th highest net spend in the league. Before Konate it was about 14th. 

 

We need someone that can perform miracles on a shoestring budget. Some of you lot think that FSG are responsible for the success. You'll be in for a rude awakening when Klopp leaves. Klopp has succeeded in spite of FSG, not because of them.

That's not true. I'd wager most of the fanbase thinks we'll go back to being a 4th place team at best when Klopp goes. There's no "rude awakening", most people accept Klopp is special and it likely won't go great after him, mostly because there are too many extremely rich clubs in England and there are no regulations to stop them. The owners are very good owners in the way that they decide to run the club, but yes, you can't compete long term against the likes of City, Chelsea and Newcastle the way they do things. That’s a particularity of football and it's the worst part of football.

 

That last part is conplete nonsense. There's nothing worse than Liverpool "supporters" who won't give credit to the club for anything, and worse, believe they've made it hard for Klopp. It's obviously been a massive team effort and the club has been in almost total synergy in its football operations for many years. Klopp has said this many times and will have been with the club for 9 years when his contract runs out. It will have been a fantastic time for everyone.

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22 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

So what is your point again?

 

That one of the top managers in world ( at that time) will be most likely to perform miracles on a shoestring budget?

We have an opportunity - post-Klopp - to bring in one of the best managers in the world. We don't have to take risks like Arsenal. That luxury has been afforded to us because of Klopp's success. Ironically, Klopp is the living embodiment of what I'm talking about. He had loads of experience. He'd usurped super clubs on a meagre budget and he was overqualified for our job at the time we hired him. We should repeat that strategy.

 

If you look at the similarities between Souness and Moyes, they both were underqualified in terms of their achievements. They both hadn't done anything significant. Had Moyes even played in the Champions League before getting the job with United? Both were hired based on a misplaced nostalgia. We could be hiring Steven Gerrard on the back of doing nothing and turning down the likes of Simeone who has proven himself at the highest level. That is pure madness to me. 

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