Steven Gerrard - Aston Villa Manager

[m0e]

1 hour ago, TheHowieLama said:

I am unsure he can recreate what he walked into at Real Madrid.

That's a fair assumption.

 

It's not quite the same position as "I don't rate him despite his 3 CLs in a row" which I reckon goes down as one of the most ridiculous statements in recent history.

 

Along with "Pochettino is a top manager", "Ferguson isn't a great because of his record in Europe" and "Harry Kane is overrated / past it".

[Boss]

38 minutes ago, m0e said:

That's a fair assumption.

 

It's not quite the same position as "I don't rate him despite his 3 CLs in a row" which I reckon goes down as one of the most ridiculous statements in recent history.

 

Along with "Pochettino is a top manager", "Ferguson isn't a great because of his record in Europe" and "Harry Kane is overrated / past it".

 

If you're going to quote me, can you get it right, please? I said, "I don't rate him that highly". Winning three CL's in a row was obviously a great achievement but I don't think he's a great manager. He had a great squad. During his second tenure, he had the lowest win percentage of any Real Madrid manager in decades. I stand behind what I said.

 

Is Robert Di Matteo a great manager?

[TheHowieLama]

I think in the game, tactically matching up to different opponents, finding space for his matchwinners and substitutions Zidane was fine. Pretty good in fact.

But it was Real Madrid - w Ronaldo/Ramos. That ain't happening again. 

Doesn't matter as he would never take our gig. I could see him hanging around the France team for the next 20 years.

[Boss]

3 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

You seem to be moving the goalposts on what high level experience is. Being the number 2 in an international setup just isn't high level experience. And hoffenhiem is no better than Fulham, where our beloved Owl came from or curbisbly for that matter. Fucking hoffenhiem. 

 

Look we're not going to agree on this as you can't even agree with yourself on what are the experience prerequisites for the role. Let's just leave it at this. 

 

I'm moving the goalposts? You said Flick had no experience. Zero, zilch, nada, none. He had 13 years of experience of coaching and 5 years as Germany's sporting director. He was a big part of the team that won a world cup for heaven's sake. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

On 10/11/2021 at 19:07, Chris said:

 

Digbeth is a brilliant place. Loads going on there now. 

Is the coach station still a soul-destroying shithole?

[Jose Jones]

I think Villa is probably a decent move for Steven Gerrard.  It'll give him the chance to show that he can play decent style of football against better standard of opposition than in Scotland, plus see if he can tactic a win or two against top teams.  Also if he has any money to spend, we'll get to see if he's got an eye for a decent player and be able to improve them.  

Seems a bit weird to say it, but achieving similar results to Moyes at West Ham or Rodgers at Leicester over the next 2 or 3 years would probably put him in prime position for the Liverpool manager's position when Klopp leaves.

 

If he did come here you'd obviously hope that he'd be able to link in with our current recruitment and coaching set up, and keep the benefits of the structure we've already got.  We already know that he can handle being the face of the club.

[m0e]

58 minutes ago, Boss said:

 

If you're going to quote me, can you get it right, please? I said, "I don't rate him that highly". Winning three CL's in a row was obviously a great achievement but I don't think he's a great manager. He had a great squad. During his second tenure, he had the lowest win percentage of any Real Madrid manager in decades. I stand behind what I said.

 

Is Robert Di Matteo a great manager?

1) I wasn't quoting you, and there are plenty of similar posts on here. But I'm flattered all the same.

 

2) He won 3 CLs in a row, not one with zero influence on what actually happened.

 

3) You don't rate him as a manager because he had a great squad? Like no other squad was "great" during those 3 years? Like Bob Paisley had a great squad in the late 70s and early 80s? Like Guardiola had a great squad for 5 years at Barcelona?

 

It's an absolutely ridiculous statement to make.

 

On every level.

 

And almost as bad as your last question.

[m0e]

49 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

I think in the game, tactically matching up to different opponents, finding space for his matchwinners and substitutions Zidane was fine. Pretty good in fact.

But it was Real Madrid - w Ronaldo/Ramos. That ain't happening again. 

Doesn't matter as he would never take our gig. I could see him hanging around the France team for the next 20 years.

Take Salah and VVD out of Liverpool and Klopp isn't that great either.

[3 Stacks]

Zidane walked into a great situation and made the most of it. It's like Guardiola, I'm not sure why people want to criticize that aspect of it. Could Zidane actually build something at a club himself and would Guardiola be as successful at a club with fewer resources? Maybe not, but it's hypothetical criticism, it's not real.

 

It's the same with Gerrard. The haters are all assuming he's not up to a big job when that's not at all been proven yet. And I don't think failing or even succeding at Villa would tell us much either, which is why I think it's kind of a waste of time.

 

 

[Jose Jones]

15 minutes ago, m0e said:

Take Salah and VVD out of Liverpool and Klopp isn't that great either.

Not sure that really works as a comparison as Klopp bought Salah and VVD, so at least you could say he signed them and constructed the team.  Zidane inherited his best players, and his list of signings is not good. 

He does get a lot of credit for the 3 champions leagues, and being able to manage the big egos into a coherent team is a difficult skill in itself.

 

 

[TheHowieLama]

39 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

it's kind of a waste of time.

 

 

He has a couple of years to kill.

[Boss]

5 hours ago, m0e said:

1) I wasn't quoting you, and there are plenty of similar posts on here. But I'm flattered all the same.

 

2) He won 3 CLs in a row, not one with zero influence on what actually happened.

 

3) You don't rate him as a manager because he had a great squad? Like no other squad was "great" during those 3 years? Like Bob Paisley had a great squad in the late 70s and early 80s? Like Guardiola had a great squad for 5 years at Barcelona?

 

It's an absolutely ridiculous statement to make.

 

On every level.

 

And almost as bad as your last question.

 

There's a degree of luck to knockout competitions. The team that wins The Champions League, UEFA Cup, FA Cup and League Cup may not be the best team in the competition. The year we won, Ajax were arguably the best team. The year we were beaten by Real, we were the best team. Ramos fucked us over.

 

He won three on the trot. It was a brilliant achievement. He's been sacked twice by the same club. He won two titles during a period where Bartameu was actively trying to destroy Barcelona. He had a squad consisting of Courtois, Marcelo, Varane, Ramos, Casemiro, Modric, Kroos, Isco, Bale, Benzema and Ronaldo. He had world-class players in pretty much every position, and he got pumped by Valverde twice, and Valverde's Barca had all the fortitude of wet tissue paper. His win percentage during his second tenure was lower than Benitez.

[Chris]

8 hours ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Is the coach station still a soul-destroying shithole?

Pretty much, but aren’t they all?

[Barrington Womble]

14 hours ago, Pidge said:

Trophies, Europe, showing leadership. Earning a job at a big club in Europe? I don't know for sure, but how do you rule out the possibility entirely. Even if he flops and goes elsewhere, I don't think it would rule anything out.

 

Doesn't have to be taking over Klopp anyway, can be down the road from that.

I don't think trophies are very achievable to be honest. If anyone outside of the traditional top 6 win a trophy, it requires so much luck. They don't have big squads and just like the major clubs, the managers are judged on their league position. He has 2 cups open to him, the fa cup or the league cup and he needs his 2nd string to be better than man city's. We can't compete in domestic cups and we don't judge the quality of our manager on their capability in domestic cups, why would we think Gerrard could compete at villa? And what value would it bring in assessing his ability?

 

He might get a shot at Europe, but would anyone be arsed if he won the Europa conference? Honestly, I think Gerrard has picked a club where it's almost impossible to succeed to an extent it improves his CV. Just a look at our neighbours who've had highly regarded managers like Martinez, koeman and ancelotti in recent appointments with hundreds of millions to spend (and Moyes before that), show just how difficult it is to achieve something.

 

I personally think Gerrard has made it less likely he will become Liverpool manager by taking the villa job. I would go as far as say if he hasn't been sacked by the time his contract is up, that in itself is probably an achievement in the PL. I don't know if that is enough to get this job though. 

 

12 hours ago, Boss said:

 

I'm moving the goalposts? You said Flick had no experience. Zero, zilch, nada, none. He had 13 years of experience of coaching and 5 years as Germany's sporting director. He was a big part of the team that won a world cup for heaven's sake. 

He didn't have the experience you're asking for. You keep reeling off names of highly regarded managers who when they got their shots at a big club they don't meet your bar you're setting for Gerrard. All of these managers, flick, zidane, pochetino who you're saying we should prefer to Gerrard in 2024 or later, yet they all got their shots at a massive club without achieving what you think Gerrard needs. 

[m0e]

13 hours ago, Jose Jones said:

Not sure that really works as a comparison as Klopp bought Salah and VVD, so at least you could say he signed them and constructed the team.  Zidane inherited his best players, and his list of signings is not good. 

He does get a lot of credit for the 3 champions leagues, and being able to manage the big egos into a coherent team is a difficult skill in itself.

 

 

Yes, but he has to sell Coutinho (not his player) to fund one and didn't want the other, apparently.

 

It just shows how much has to go right for you to win just 1 CL, let alone 3 on the bounce. And to downplay the part the manger plays in that is quite frankly ludicrous.

[m0e]

8 hours ago, Boss said:

 

There's a degree of luck to knockout competitions. 

And he won 3 on the trot!

 

Some "luck" that is, eh Boss?

[Boss]

5 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

He didn't have the experience you're asking for. You keep reeling off names of highly regarded managers who when they got their shots at a big club they don't meet your bar you're setting for Gerrard. All of these managers, flick, zidane, pochetino who you're saying we should prefer to Gerrard in 2024 or later, yet they all got their shots at a massive club without achieving what you think Gerrard needs. 

 

I said, if Gerrard gets top 4 and gets to the latter stages of the Champions League, he should be hired. All the managers I mentioned have achieved that criteria. You've taken that point and superimposed your own, "what did those managers achieve before they got hired by a big club?". I'm not interested in what they achieved prior. I'm interested in what their CV looks like in 2024. That's the only thing of relevance to our situation. You've even said yourself, you're expecting him to be sacked by Villa. If that's the case, why are you pushing him for the Liverpool job?

 

There are managers far more qualified for the job in this league. Rodgers is more qualified. He won every domestic trophy in Scotland back to back and then almost qualified for the Champions League with Leicester twice. He plays more eye-catching football than Gerrard - from what I've seen. Why should we overlook him - let alone all the managers that are more qualified than Rodgers - just because Gerrard has survived two years at Villa? Assuming, of course, that Rodgers is available at the same time.

[Boss]

35 minutes ago, m0e said:

And he won 3 on the trot!

 

Some "luck" that is, eh Boss?

 

True. It's not luck if you win it three times on the trot. However, serious question, do you think they were lucky in the Champions League final against us? Imagine if we had VAR and the Karius elbowing incident was reviewed, or the purposeful attempt to dislocate Mo's shoulder. What might've been, eh?

[m0e]

4 minutes ago, Boss said:

 

True. It's not luck if you win it three times on the trot. However, serious question, do you think they were lucky in the Champions League final against us? Imagine if we had VAR and the Karius elbowing incident was reviewed, or the purposeful attempt to dislocate Mo's shoulder. What might've been, eh?

Maybe, maybe not.

 

Were we lucky that Man City didn't have that goal ruled out versus Spurs in 2019? Or that Ajax didn't capitulate in the last 10 minutes?

 

Were we lucky Dembele fucked up in the last minute at the Nou Camp when he should have made it 4 nil? Or that Robbo got injured in the return to force the Wijnaldum sub at half time?

 

To win it 3 times on the bounce is RIDICULOUS!

 

Very few have done that, and every time it was done, it was the old format - a proper cup competition!

[Bjornebye]

1 hour ago, Boss said:

 

There are managers far more qualified for the job in this league. Rodgers is more qualified. He won every domestic trophy in Scotland back to back and then almost qualified for the Champions League with Leicester twice. He plays more eye-catching football than Gerrard - from what I've seen. Why should we overlook him - let alone all the managers that are more qualified than Rodgers - just because Gerrard has survived two years at Villa? Assuming, of course, that Rodgers is available at the same time.

Would you have Rodgers back? 

[TheHowieLama]

STEADY!!

[Boss]

11 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Would you have Rodgers back? 

 

I wouldn't be opposed to it if he was the best option available at the time. What are your thoughts? You know him better than me based on his time at Celtic. Obviously, if he goes to the mancs then no chance. My number one choice is Tuchel - same as you.

[Tony Moanero]

Brendan Todgers?

 

*Leaves thread*

[TheHowieLama]

Does anyone think what Gerrard did at Rangers is more impressive than all that Rodgers did at Celtic?

 

Cuz I do.

[3 Stacks]

9 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Does anyone think what Gerrard did at Rangers is more impressive than all that Rodgers did at Celtic?

 

Cuz I do.

Yes, although Rodgers dominated for three years. Gerrard had a single season.