Steven Gerrard - Aston Villa Manager

[Code]

50 minutes ago, Josef Svejk said:

 

Manc source and motivation notwithstanding... 

 

What is this even supposed to mean, different leagues, different scenarioes.

Valencia finished 4th in La Liga the season before Neville had his spell there.

Villa finished 11th the season before Gerrard got appointed. 

 

[TD_LFC]

14 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

 And the same people usually make the proclamation it should be pep ljinders, despite him failing badly at his only management role. 

Most of the Ljinders talk is based on the fact he seems to be actively being groomed for the role.

 

He's getting a lot of exposure, seemingly with the aim of impressing the fan base and wider football with his knowledge and ability, he's given far more media work than most Assistants.

 

Ultimately what's best on the pitch will be the deciding factor but the PR campaign around him and giving him lots of opportunities  to demonstrate his tactical acumen can only be for one purpose (and if it ends up not being with us then someone else). 

[Carra_is_legend]

Most important stat: Neville is a cunt, Gerrard isn't

[Arniepie]

5 minutes ago, Josef Svejk said:

Depends in part how much they spend, I guess. Villa have spent a lot over the past couple of years.

Still a new promoted side though, not like valencia?

Not really a valid comparison imho.

Valencia are much more successful club in Spain than villa are,in England, I'd say?

[VladimirIlyich]

Just now, TD_LFC said:

Most of the Ljinders talk is based on the fact he seems to be actively being groomed for the role.

 

He's getting a lot of exposure, seemingly with the aim of impressing the fan base and wider football with his knowledge and ability, he's given far more media work than most Assistants.

 

Ultimately what's best on the pitch will be the deciding factor but the PR campaign around him and giving him lots of opportunities  to demonstrate his tactical acumen can only be for one purpose (and if it ends up not being with us then someone else). 

My fear is that Lijnders is a great number two but being the head honcho is a completely different role. And as brilliant Lijnders is as a coach there is so much more to being the manager than that. Coaching seems to be one of the lesser things managers do nowadays. Ultimately,getting players to believe in you and your playing philosophy is the biggest test. Some are so impressionable that nobody without a stellar playing career gets a look in despite many successful managers having little or mediocre careers themselves.

[Barrington Womble]

45 minutes ago, Morning Glory said:

Mings is a shite defender so he’s spot on with that analysis. However, quite a few people say Beale was his brains behind the scenes and with him gone it will be interesting to see if that rings true. I personally would never want Stevie as our manager, I just don’t see anything there that makes me think he has the tactical nous needed at the very top level and I would hate to see his legacy tarnished. He also wanted Curbishley to become manager before Rafa if I remember rightly? IMO Pep is being groomed to take over from JK.

Gerrard was an incredibly tactically astute footballer, it was why he was able to play absolutely anywhere in the pitch. That's not just ability on the ball, it's a footballing intelligence that very few have. That's doesn't mean it will make him a great manager, because there's more to it than that than just tactics. 

 

When a new manager comes in, if he thinks there's characters who bring the dressing room down, he needs to deal with it. Ferguson did it countless times. Houllier did it with ince. Klopp with sakho. So right now it is tough for Gerrard because he's identified the issue and it's the captain, who is by all accounts liked in the dressing room. It doesn't mean he's got it wrong, it might just take some time. It's ridiculous to write him off now, just as it's ridiculous to say he should be our next manager (or indeed our manager at any point). 

 

 

[dockers_strike]

34 minutes ago, TD_LFC said:

Most of the Ljinders talk is based on the fact he seems to be actively being groomed for the role.

 

He's getting a lot of exposure, seemingly with the aim of impressing the fan base and wider football with his knowledge and ability, he's given far more media work than most Assistants.

 

Ultimately what's best on the pitch will be the deciding factor but the PR campaign around him and giving him lots of opportunities  to demonstrate his tactical acumen can only be for one purpose (and if it ends up not being with us then someone else). 

Im not sure why ljinders is talked about that way. Have people forgotten how poorly he failed at Nijmegen, was it? His record as manager there was on a par with Neville's.

 

I think people who do are harking back to the boot room era and the line of succession. I completely fail to see how people can think Ljinders is a better candidate just because he's Jurgen's equal number 2 with Peter Krawietz.

 

Im not championing Gerrard either. Ive said before he'll only get the job here if he proves his credentials.

[Carvalho Diablo]

My opinion of Stevie hasn't changed a bit - I'll always love the bloke for what he's done for our club, but it still haven't seen anything whatsoever from him as a manager to even remotely suggest that he could ever be a successful Liverpool manager.

[Creator Supreme]

I'll be surprised if he's still Villa manager at the start of the world cup break!

[No2]

Its way to soon to be making any calls about Gerrard, if forced I would say he's doing a good job, following a very good job at Rangers. I'm sure Klopps first 28 games will look something similar, Solksjaer's are probably better. It's all pointless though without the context. He inherited a team with Tyrone Mings as the captain, he's the perfect player to highlight what Aston Villa were, a bunch of players that embrace mediocrity and show up every 3 weeks.

 

The job of changing a clubs mentality isn't easy and he's recognised that and appointed a less talented player that works his hole off 100% of the time. While he is putting his own mark on the club they have shown signs of progress. They gave us 2 proper games, City had to work to the final whistle in both their games against them too. Half the teams in the league aren't capable of that with more experienced managers than Gerrard. 

 

Opening the season with defeat at Bournemouth is never a good look and pressure will inevitably come. 

[Jose Jones]

9 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

Im not sure why ljinders is talked about that way. Have people forgotten how poorly he failed at Nijmegen, was it? His record as manager there was on a par with Neville's.

 

I think people who do are harking back to the boot room era and the line of succession. I completely fail to see how people can think Ljinders is a better candidate just because he's Jurgen's equal number 2 with Peter Krawietz.

 

Im not championing Gerrard either. Ive said before he'll only get the job here if he proves his credentials.

Lijnders did ok at Nijmegen, they finished 3rd in the division, but lost in the promotion playoffs. 
The season after he left they came 9th.

Obviously it is not quite the same record of success on the continent as Klopp or Benitez had before being appointed.

[TD_LFC]

2 hours ago, dockers_strike said:

Im not sure why ljinders is talked about that way. Have people forgotten how poorly he failed at Nijmegen, was it? His record as manager there was on a par with Neville's.

 

I think people who do are harking back to the boot room era and the line of succession. I completely fail to see how people can think Ljinders is a better candidate just because he's Jurgen's equal number 2 with Peter Krawietz.

 

Im not championing Gerrard either. Ive said before he'll only get the job here if he proves his credentials.

There's a difference between people thinking it's the best option and people thinking that's where his development and push by either the club or klopp or both seems to be trending.

 

If you compare him with Krawietz, for example, it's night and day the kind of exposure they're both getting, so outwardly I doubt the perception is they're equal, which isn't a judgement on either person's actual ability

 

 

[TD_LFC]

3 hours ago, VladimirIlyich said:

My fear is that Lijnders is a great number two but being the head honcho is a completely different role.

Absolutely could be the case, but there's also a certain British bias to that as well that maybe isn't as vociferous on the continent or in American sports.

 

I guess the most recent example of it working would be Hansi Flick at Bayern but you could probably pull another ten of it not.

 

 

[3 Stacks]

Gerrard's problem is that Villa spend money, so he has to start producing real results. The expectations are there. Villa were good statistically after he got there, but didn't win as much as they should have. That is fine and indicates that the performances aren't bad, but that can't continue when they're able to bring players in like Coutinho, Diego Carlos and Kamara. There has to be something tangible in terms of results very soon. 

[3 Stacks]

And I'm sorry but Ljinders absolutely cannot be our next manager. He is probably an extremely good coach but he is a cringey David Brent style business cliche speaking wannabe. He's almost Rodgers level in that area. 

[Bjornebye]

They've got everton next, can we all get behind the lad 

[Josef Svejk]

4 hours ago, Code said:

 

What is this even supposed to mean, different leagues, different scenarioes.

Valencia finished 4th in La Liga the season before Neville had his spell there.

Villa finished 11th the season before Gerrard got appointed. 

 

They finished 14th with him. Despite him signing Coutinho and Digne.

[El Dangerous]

7 hours ago, dockers_strike said:

Im not sure why ljinders is talked about that way. Have people forgotten how poorly he failed at Nijmegen, was it? His record as manager there was on a par with Neville's.

 

I think people who do are harking back to the boot room era and the line of succession. I completely fail to see how people can think Ljinders is a better candidate just because he's Jurgen's equal number 2 with Peter Krawietz.

 

Im not championing Gerrard either. Ive said before he'll only get the job here if he proves his credentials.

How well was he supposed to do at Nimijen? Did you see much of his team?

 

Not sure if all the press responsibilities he’s picked up are because he’s beings groomed or if it’s just part of an extended role for his own personal development but he’s clearly well thought of and the players all love him. That’s half the battle. 

[VladimirIlyich]

2 hours ago, El Dangerous said:

How well was he supposed to do at Nimijen? Did you see much of his team?

 

Not sure if all the press responsibilities he’s picked up are because he’s beings groomed or if it’s just part of an extended role for his own personal development but he’s clearly well thought of and the players all love him. That’s half the battle. 

Players come and go though. The same players that love him may not be there if he takes over from Klopp either. Its also quite usual for players to like the coach because its technically the manager who drops them or transfers them.

[TheSire]

6 hours ago, 3 Stacks said:

And I'm sorry but Ljinders absolutely cannot be our next manager. He is probably an extremely good coach but he is a cringey David Brent style business cliche speaking wannabe. He's almost Rodgers level in that area. 

Is he? Hasn't occurred to me tbh!

[Tony Moanero]

6 hours ago, TD_LFC said:

Absolutely could be the case, but there's also a certain British bias to that as well that maybe isn't as vociferous on the continent or in American sports.

 

I guess the most recent example of it working would be Hansi Flick at Bayern but you could probably pull another ten of it not.

 

 

Your armpits smell like Scotch eggs.

[Joey8FrogsLegs]

11 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

Gerrard was an incredibly tactically astute footballer, it was why he was able to play absolutely anywhere in the pitch. That's not just ability on the ball, it's a footballing intelligence that very few have. That's doesn't mean it will make him a great manager, because there's more to it than that than just tactics. 

 

When a new manager comes in, if he thinks there's characters who bring the dressing room down, he needs to deal with it. Ferguson did it countless times. Houllier did it with ince. Klopp with sakho. So right now it is tough for Gerrard because he's identified the issue and it's the captain, who is by all accounts liked in the dressing room. It doesn't mean he's got it wrong, it might just take some time. It's ridiculous to write him off now, just as it's ridiculous to say he should be our next manager (or indeed our manager at any point). 

 

 

Disagree, at least to a large degree. At his peak he was a physical and mental monster, without any weaknesses at all in his skillset. He could dribble and tackle as well as anyone, was good in the air and had an eye for the killer pass. Passing and shooting skills were extreme, among the best in the world. This combo of hardly any weaknesses, combined with some extreme attributes, made him one of the very best in the world.

 

His main weakness imo was tactical awareness. You’d frequently see him making wrong decisions, both off and not least on the ball. Also being caught out of position frequently. when played further back in midfield. I think this was very visible towards the end of his time here, when he was played at DM. Sure, he’d still produce the killer passes and also tackles and other moments of brilliance. But being a DM is far more about being in the right position at the right time, and making the right decisions. This was never Gerrards strengths. 
 

To be fair I’d say that his extreme will to win, love to the club and probably at times frustration that the quality of the teams he played in never matched the ambitions of the club, and definately not the ambitions and quality of Gerrard himself, probably influence him. These factors probably made him try to do too much, take on too much responsibilty, and try to force things rather that make the right decisions. Of course he was also so good that his individual brilliance would sometimes produce a goal or an assist even when he made the wrong decision.

 

One of the greatest players I ever saw, and a great eye for the killer passes in attacking areas, but never came across as a very tactically aware player. 

[Supremolad]

9 hours ago, 3 Stacks said:

And I'm sorry but Ljinders absolutely cannot be our next manager. He is probably an extremely good coach but he is a cringey David Brent style business cliche speaking wannabe. He's almost Rodgers level in that area. 

This. Absolutely this.

 

He talks too much, gives too much away to the media in press conferences. And I'm still annoyed he has already released a tell it all book. How many assistant managers have ever done that while still at their current club?

 

I absolutely believe he would agree to an Amazon All or Nothing documentary if he ever became manager. I just don't see the appeal people have for him. He is a good coach but it would quickly become a cringe fest if he ever became Liverpool manager.

[Barrington Womble]

11 hours ago, Joey8FrogsLegs said:

Disagree, at least to a large degree. At his peak he was a physical and mental monster, without any weaknesses at all in his skillset. He could dribble and tackle as well as anyone, was good in the air and had an eye for the killer pass. Passing and shooting skills were extreme, among the best in the world. This combo of hardly any weaknesses, combined with some extreme attributes, made him one of the very best in the world.

 

His main weakness imo was tactical awareness. You’d frequently see him making wrong decisions, both off and not least on the ball. Also being caught out of position frequently. when played further back in midfield. I think this was very visible towards the end of his time here, when he was played at DM. Sure, he’d still produce the killer passes and also tackles and other moments of brilliance. But being a DM is far more about being in the right position at the right time, and making the right decisions. This was never Gerrards strengths. 
 

To be fair I’d say that his extreme will to win, love to the club and probably at times frustration that the quality of the teams he played in never matched the ambitions of the club, and definately not the ambitions and quality of Gerrard himself, probably influence him. These factors probably made him try to do too much, take on too much responsibilty, and try to force things rather that make the right decisions. Of course he was also so good that his individual brilliance would sometimes produce a goal or an assist even when he made the wrong decision.

 

One of the greatest players I ever saw, and a great eye for the killer passes in attacking areas, but never came across as a very tactically aware player. 

Personally I think you're underestimating his game intelligence. I don't dispute he sometimes left gaps, but for much of his career he was almost a one man team. Even in that season or 2 you mention at DM, he could barely run at that point career and it was good enough that we almost won the league. Not many players can't run and can hold their own at that level. It was his game intelligence that got him through it. 

[Chairman Meow]

On 10/08/2022 at 09:14, Geoff Woade said:

 

Theres the stories you hear from the likes of Crouch guffawing on about how Gerrard and Carragher were ‘ruthless’ when it came to new players when they were the top dogs at Liverpool. Firing the ball in at them and ‘testing’ them etc and how some of the players would wilt. He seemed to think it was a good thing but I never got on board with all that. Sounded like bullying and counter productive as far as I’m concerned

From when I've seen Peter Crouch talking about the thing with Gerrard firing a ball at him, he was talking about his first training session when he signed and that Gerrard passed to him, he mis controlled and Gerrard looked disgusted.

 

Crouch reckoned it was a massive wake up call for him in the differences between what was expected everywhere else he played in comparison to coming to us as the expectation shifted to being expected to be on it every day whether it was a match or not, more than a case of them picking on him.