West Ham 3 Liverpool 2 (Nov 7 2021)

[tlw content 17,102]

 

 

 

Report by

Dave Usher

 

There goes the unbeaten run then. Avoiding defeat in this game would have broken a club record but we blew it. To David Moyes too. That leaves a sour taste in the mouth, not least because he's now lording it above us in the table for at least two weeks. The worst part is it was nothing more than we deserved as I thought this was shite.

 

Losing the unbeaten run is disappointing as it would have been nice to set the record. Losing this season's unbeaten league record doesn’t bother me so much though. We were the last unbeaten team in the league but I don't especially care about that. By that I mean this defeat doesn't hurt any more just because we can't go unbeaten. It did the last time it happened (at Watford two years ago) because there was a real chance of going through that season unbeaten.

 

That was never on the cards this time. I didn’t think any kind of ‘invincible’ season was possible as we could easily have lost to Brighton, Brentford and City already. We don’t have that same look that we had a couple of years ago. Not consistently anyway. At times this year we’ve looked as good as ever, but it’s been patchy.

 

In fact, if you take the Champions League results away we might be looking at this season much differently than we have been. We’ve played 11 games in the league and we’ve dropped points in five of them. As I say, it’s been patchy and some of these players really need to step up now as we've underperformed in too many games already.

 

Klopp’s biggest beef afterwards was the referee and VAR. Fuck that. We had much bigger problems than that here and quite honestly I didn’t like that being the focus of his post match summary.

 

There’s fuck all wrong with West Ham’s first goal. Any contact between Alisson and Ogbonna is initiated by Alisson. Ogbonna isn’t even looking at him. All he’s trying to do is jump at the near post and get a flick on the ball. He doesn’t back in, he isn't challenging the keeper, he just jumps straight up the air and then Alisson challenges him. 

 

Klopp complained that Ogbonna's arm hits Alisson’s arm and that’s why he couldn’t punch the ball. What the fuck is Ogbonna meant to do then? Not try and win the header? Keep his arms by his side when he jumps? We have seen fouls given for similar incidents but that doesn’t mean they should be. It isn’t a foul and Alisson needs to do much better than that. 

 

 

 

 

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[Spy Bee 3,535]

Video not working pal.

[Spy Bee 3,535]

4 minutes ago, Spy Bee said:

Video not working pal.

Working now... WTF Virg?

[dockers_strike 4,131]

I personally think you'vegone a bit easy on Alli, Dave. Deffo at fault on 2 and 3. First was a fould and should have been ruled out but he was less than convincing on it which is why I think the ref an VAR went with it.

 

To be honest, I dont think Virgil is catching Antonio there and likely told by the medical department to play within himself?

 

Hopefully arsenal are just having a little good run that ends when they play us!

[aws 8,074]

Disagree about the first goal. Jumping with your arm that high is normally a foul anywhere on the field if there is contact and that's not even allowing for the extra protection keepers always (well nearly always) get these days.

The second goal is down to the keeper. 

Maybe Virgil expected Antonio to be caught and was worried about him just passing inside to Bowen who was making good ground in the center. 

[fredo49 42]

A bit OTT for my money Dave. Up to this season you only had to breathe on a GK for a foul to be given - their first goal was a bit more than that. Cresswell should have been off, but didn't even get a yellow (did he?). These things surely alter the whole dynamic.

 

I agree that Bowen should have been brought down for goal 2 - we are not remotely cynical enough in those situations - and Allison didn't cover himself in glory for any of their goals I'd say.

 

We were basically beaten by a team who got their tails up using the Big Sam approach.

 

Disappointing, but expect us to bounce back...

[dave u 7,769]

Alisson challenges Ogbonna though, not the other way around. If he's running in and challenging the keeper, thats different. But Ogbonna is only looking at the ball and isn't making any play at Alisson. I'd be absolutely steaming if we had a goal disallowed for that.

[SasaS 3,209]

That would be a blatant foul on the goalkeeper in any other country. Not even debatable.

And we had a goal disallowed for less at United, if memory serves.

 

EDIT: or was it at home against United?

[Spy Bee 3,535]

I think the foul on the keeper was by Antonio.

[aws 8,074]

33 minutes ago, dave u said:

Alisson challenges Ogbonna though, not the other way around. If he's running in and challenging the keeper, thats different. But Ogbonna is only looking at the ball and isn't making any play at Alisson. I'd be absolutely steaming if we had a goal disallowed for that.

His arm is raised and makes contact with a keeper's arm which is reaching for the ball. Definite foul following modern custom and practice relating to keepers.  Would have been a yellow card if Crouchie or Mane did it. 

[rubble-rouser 2,541]

I thought I was seeing things when I saw that Virgil incident yesterday. I literally have no idea what he was doing. 

[Turkish Delight 386]

We're way too relaxed and casual in tracking back.

 

Examples to add to the Virgil one in the post are:

 

- Four players jogging back and leaving Robbo one on one for Brighton's early chance last week.

 

- Konate for Brighton's second jogging behind Trossard up until the point he scores. He jogged to about two yards away when he shot but would have been there with a sprint.

 

 - Trent prior to the ball being played to Fornals yesterday (he sprinted when it was too late but could see where the danger was before then).

[CapeRed 397]

24 minutes ago, SasaS said:

That would be a blatant foul on the goalkeeper in any other country. Not even debatable.

And we had a goal disallowed for less at United, if memory serves.

 

EDIT: or was it at home against United?

Home game to the Mancs. It was the Creswell assault that annoyed the fuck out of me. That twat Dermot Gallagher was talking about it being a yellow which would have calmed things and avoided var FFS.

[DaveT 703]

3 minutes ago, CapeRed said:

Home game to the Mancs. It was the Creswell assault that annoyed the fuck out of me. That twat Dermot Gallagher was talking about it being a yellow which would have calmed things and avoided var FFS.

It sums up how abysmal the officiating is. Linesman, 10 yards away, and ref don’t even think it’s a foul. Dopey Dermot thinks it’s a foul and a yellow. Anyone else with half a brain and a pair of eyes thinks it’s a red. 

[Mudface 5,262]

1 hour ago, fredo49 said:

A bit OTT for my money Dave. Up to this season you only had to breathe on a GK for a foul to be given - their first goal was a bit more than that. Cresswell should have been off, but didn't even get a yellow (did he?). These things surely alter the whole dynamic.

 

I agree that Bowen should have been brought down for goal 2 - we are not remotely cynical enough in those situations - and Allison didn't cover himself in glory for any of their goals I'd say.

 

We were basically beaten by a team who got their tails up using the Big Sam approach.

 

Disappointing, but expect us to bounce back...

I don't think we even got a free kick...

[Anubis 21,577]

I’m not sure we are the best team in the country at the moment.

[johnsusername 3,478]

I'm on amber alert. I'm worried. (In the context of wanting to win the league). 

[Pete 2,033]

We’re fucking shite.

[Captain Howdy 1,912]

Don’t think we’re the best team in the country mate.

[ManéMan 34]

Not sure what Henderson is doing that far up the pitch for their 2nd goal...he seems to be getting ahead of himself a bit too much this season and thinking himself as some sort of a luxury player.

[Erik T 33]

Yes, we have failed to win 5 out of 11 league games, but in our defence 3 of them were against the teams that are currently top 3 in the table (and would have been top 4 even if we’d beaten them). Losing to a well organised West Ham side that maybe got lucky with some decisions (I don’t think they did but that’s beside the point) is not that worrying but failing to beat Brentford when we were in the lead twice and Brighton when we were 2 goals up is indeed cause for concern. We were also ahead twice against City. In The CL we’ve given away leads against both AC Milan and Atlético (2 goals) but we managed to win in the end.  Not being able to hold on to a lead and kill the game off is a major concern. We are so sloppy and casual in defending that we are close to being a soft touch. The attitude has to change - start sprinting back, put some tough tackles in, make a professional foul if need be - in short, man up FFS! And Klopp should stop complaining about the refs when the decisions are more in the «seen ‘em given» than «stonewall» category. 

[Einch 401]

We’re not working as a whole team defensively. Believing our own hype a bit and that needs to be knocked out of the squad sharp. They worked harder than we did yesterday which is not the first time we have seen this in the last 18 months. 

[RedHeadedRed 125]

That Virg incident is bizarre watching it on tv yesterday I couldn't believe what I was seeing I had to rewind it to make sure. The defending is a real worry this year we got our defenders back but we seem to have lost something.

[Fiona Southworth 10]

Great report Dave agree with most of it !

Robbo in my opinion has been very poor for most of the season odd game where he has been ok ….why do we have the Greek …competition surely? He played v well on Wednesday night he should have started . You will disagree but for me playing with Ox is like playing with 10 men !

[Supremolad 344]

In addition to his arm being impeded by Ogbonna, Alisson also got elbowed in that incident leading to the first goal. It's a foul, simple as.

 

We've seen refs give fouls for less on goalies, even this season. Leeds goalie conceded a goal few weeks ago and barely had any contact on him. The goal was disallowed. Generally, any kind of significant contact on a goalie in the 6 yard box leads to a foul being called.