Jump to content
  • Sign up for free and receive a month's subscription

    You are viewing this page as a guest. That means you are either a member who has not logged in, or you have not yet registered with us. Signing up for an account only takes a minute and it means you will no longer see this annoying box! It will also allow you to get involved with our friendly(ish!) community and take part in the discussions on our forums. And because we're feeling generous, if you sign up for a free account we will give you a month's free trial access to our subscriber only content with no obligation to commit. Register an account and then send a private message to @dave u and he'll hook you up with a subscription.

West Ham (A) - Sun 7th Nov 2021 (4:30pm)


Trumo
 Share

Recommended Posts

11 hours ago, Red74 said:

I never bought into the excuse that losing our centre halves caused us to have that terrible run of results at Anfield from the West Brom game last season. 

 

We were clueless in knowing what to do against teams keeping  everyone behind the ball and picking us off in the last 10 minutes. Everyone seen it and used it against us. 
 

We got away with it against Chelsea this season and reverted back to it today.

 

He’s got to work this out as teams will see this and set up the same again. Everyone in this league would be made up with a point against us. Let’s not make it easy for them. 

 

 

Nah, I don't agree with that. We've scored twice away from home to a top third team. We can't be expected to score 5 every week. If our defence (including Ali) does it's job, it's an easy 3 points. The 1st and 3rd goals were pathetic and alisson should have saved the 2nd (and we should have defended it better before that). It has nothing to do with them sitting deep and picking us off and everything to do with we're just not defending after the 1st press and defending aerial stuff, we're starting to look like early 90s Liverpool. 

  • Upvote 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, chrisbonnie said:

There's an awful lot of hysteria from our fans after this game. 

 

Yeah we lost, yeah we weren't at our best. 

 

But ffs lads, that's our first loss this season, we played crap, yet only for dodgy decisions and mane missing a sitter at the end we could have drawn the game. 

 

The result will give our players the required kick up the arse they probably need anyway. 

 

I'll start worrying if we go on a crap run now. 

 

But I'm guessing we'll come back from international duty and go on another run up until Christmas. 

 

Chin up, you bunch of fannies

Yeah exactly. 4 points behind Chelsea and one behind City. I'm more pissed about Brighton and Brentford to be honest. Yesterday, we got turned over by a good side away from home with more than half our team being shocking. We just need to cop on fast and we can win the league. We are lucky because City of 2-3 years ago would already be out of sight.

 

FSG aren't responsible for lads not being picked up at corners, Trent leaving acres of space behind him, Robbo delivering countless shite balls. They aren't responsible for the usual iron clad axis of Matip-Virgil-Fabinho-Hendo looking porous. They are responsible for delivering the likes of Bellingham next summer. I suppose the bench/squad is on them to be fair - they have got lucky that Elliott, Jones and Kelleher are very good and Tsimikas looks like a really good player in the making as well but we don't have any great depth of quality. They seem to think that Jurgen can keep turning water into wine. Still, yesterday was on our usual stars who are wildly inconcistent at the monent. 

 

Coming through the next few weeks within touching distance is crucial. From my memory we have some nasty looking aways that right now seem very tough. Just do the basics and we will be okay.

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You know things are bad when people talk about Origi starting.  Completely unsuitable footballer that should have left year ago.

 

Oxocube starting when it’s a surprise if he passes the ball to a red shirt is pathetic too. 
 

The squad depth just isn’t there and some that have shown they can do it are woefully out of form.  Robertson shouldn’t be anywhere near the team on form.

 

Allison was hopeless on all three goals yesterday.  It’s a good job he’s usually great cause that was Mignolet back again.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Grinch said:

You know things are bad when people talk about Origi starting.  Completely unsuitable footballer that should have left year ago.

 

Oxocube starting when it’s a surprise if he passes the ball to a red shirt is pathetic too. 
 

The squad depth just isn’t there and some that have shown they can do it are woefully out of form.  Robertson shouldn’t be anywhere near the team on form.

 

Allison was hopeless on all three goals yesterday.  It’s a good job he’s usually great cause that was Mignolet back again.

Thing is we are going to need him when Sadio and mo leave. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Alex_K said:

Arsenal spent 100 million net on transfers. Tottenham spent 40 million net on transfers + Mourinho/Nuno/Conte salary packages + stadium spend.

So quoting them to highlight our lack of spending was kind of pointless because they didn't buy a player that we would have went out and bought.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Been reading a report in the torygraph. There's a picture of cresswell's 'challenge' on Hendo. Both feet off the ground and not in control of his body. That's the definition of the type of tackle that's a red card.

 

Even hacket says he's amazed neither the ref nor VAR considered it a fould and a red card. I think Pawson was the ref for the Elliott tackle and he got some stick for that sending off. I think he's gone 'Im not sending him (Cresswell) off for that.'

 

Referee's view: Klopp is right to be furious - Cresswell should have been sent off

by Keith Hackett

Jurgen Klopp is entirely justified in using the word “reckless” to describe Aaron Cresswell’s challenge on Jordan Henderson on Sunday, and I am amazed the West Ham player was not sent off. 

He was not even shown a yellow card. Cresswell went in with his studs showing and was using excessive force as he made contact with the ball and then the leg of the Liverpool captain. 

 

The foul endangered the safety of the midfielder and I was disappointed that referee Craig Pawson failed to issue a sanction immediately. That was a clear and obvious error and Stuart Attwell, the video assistant referee, should have intervened. 

Many people took to social media to argue that Cresswell had made a genuine attempt to make a clearance and that his studs, having made contact with the top of the ball, forced his foot to roll into Henderson’s knee. 

 

I am afraid that is not really a defence. The International Football Association Board, the body responsible for the laws of the game, recently made clear its position on such incidents. 

 

It said: “Getting the ball first has minimal relevance as to whether a foul has occurred. There is no reference to making contact with the ball in the section relating to Fouls and Misconduct in the Laws of the Game, but it may be considered by the referee in deciding whether contact was careless, reckless or using excessive force.”

Referee Chris Kavanagh had an almost identical foul challenge in the Everton vs Tottenham game and Var Jon Moss correctly intervened with the sanction of a red card to Mason Holgate for his challenge on Pierre-Emile Hojbjerg. 

 

The tackles by Cresswell and Holgate, which had strong similarities, were treated differently by two experienced match officials. 

The game demands a consistent approach, so some work needs to be done by the management team of the Professional Game Match Officials Ltd to ensure that every referee is operating on the same page and that all stakeholders in the game understand that challenges that endanger the safety of an opponent are met with a red-card sanction.

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

West Ham were deserving of their win yesterday. Players who are usually great were very poor. It happens. As others have said, the four points dropped against Brentford and Brighton are much more frustrating. 

 

We're nowhere near the level we were at in 2019/20, but Manchester City and Chelsea have proven themselves capable of dropping points in 'easy' games also and same as ourselves they'll have the knock-out stages of Europe to contend with in the new year. 

 

Still, I think we're far more likely to achieve in Europe than domestically this season if we keep our form there at the same level.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Red74 said:

I never bought into the excuse that losing our centre halves caused us to have that terrible run of results at Anfield from the West Brom game last season. 

 

We were clueless in knowing what to do against teams keeping  everyone behind the ball and picking us off in the last 10 minutes. Everyone seen it and used it against us. 
 

We got away with it against Chelsea this season and reverted back to it today.

 

He’s got to work this out as teams will see this and set up the same again. Everyone in this league would be made up with a point against us. Let’s not make it easy for them. 

 

 

Really? It wasn't an excuse it was a fact. Losing all 3 centre backs meant we put midfielders into the back 4 which definitely effected us. If you think otherwise pop along to OT there's a spot for you alongside Solsjaer! Not buying a 4th cb last season definitely was inexcusable.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

Been reading a report in the torygraph. There's a picture of cresswell's 'challenge' on Hendo. Both feet off the ground and not in control of his body. That's the definition of the type of tackle that's a red card.

 

Even hacket says he's amazed neither the ref nor VAR considered it a fould and a red card. I think Pawson was the ref for the Elliott tackle and he got some stick for that sending off. I think he's gone 'Im not sending him (Cresswell) off for that.'

 

Referee's view: Klopp is right to be furious - Cresswell should have been sent off

by Keith Hackett

Jurgen Klopp is entirely justified in using the word “reckless” to describe Aaron Cresswell’s challenge on Jordan Henderson on Sunday, and I am amazed the West Ham player was not sent off. 

He was not even shown a yellow card. Cresswell went in with his studs showing and was using excessive force as he made contact with the ball and then the leg of the Liverpool captain. 

 

The foul endangered the safety of the midfielder and I was disappointed that referee Craig Pawson failed to issue a sanction immediately. That was a clear and obvious error and Stuart Attwell, the video assistant referee, should have intervened. 

Many people took to social media to argue that Cresswell had made a genuine attempt to make a clearance and that his studs, having made contact with the top of the ball, forced his foot to roll into Henderson’s knee. 

 

I am afraid that is not really a defence. The International Football Association Board, the body responsible for the laws of the game, recently made clear its position on such incidents. 

 

It said: “Getting the ball first has minimal relevance as to whether a foul has occurred. There is no reference to making contact with the ball in the section relating to Fouls and Misconduct in the Laws of the Game, but it may be considered by the referee in deciding whether contact was careless, reckless or using excessive force.”

Referee Chris Kavanagh had an almost identical foul challenge in the Everton vs Tottenham game and Var Jon Moss correctly intervened with the sanction of a red card to Mason Holgate for his challenge on Pierre-Emile Hojbjerg. 

 

The tackles by Cresswell and Holgate, which had strong similarities, were treated differently by two experienced match officials. 

The game demands a consistent approach, so some work needs to be done by the management team of the Professional Game Match Officials Ltd to ensure that every referee is operating on the same page and that all stakeholders in the game understand that challenges that endanger the safety of an opponent are met with a red-card sanction.

There wasn't a fucking free kick given.  Terrible reffing.

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

We're missing Naby Keita. We need a midfielder who can play one-touch football between the lines and makes runs that the front three should be making. Not having Jota central as well. He's okay on the left but whipping crosses into him against 6 foot 4 defenders is the most pointless tactic ever. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, El Rojo said:

West Ham were deserving of their win yesterday. Players who are usually great were very poor. It happens. As others have said, the four points dropped against Brentford and Brighton are much more frustrating. 

 

We're nowhere near the level we were at in 2019/20, but Manchester City and Chelsea have proven themselves capable of dropping points in 'easy' games also and same as ourselves they'll have the knock-out stages of Europe to contend with in the new year. 

 

Still, I think we're far more likely to achieve in Europe than domestically this season if we keep our form there at the same level.  

Certainly City seem to be dropping silly points - Chelsea have looked very strong and only Burnley at home is the only bad result so far for them and with Lukaku due back they are looking pretty strong.

We're only 4 points off them with Salah and Mane available - the few games we have when they are away at the AFCON is a real concern now as our squad depth is piss poor after a brilliant first 11. I might be overly pessimsitc but its hard not to see that gap vs Chelsea increasing as with pretty much our full side available we've dropped really bad points against Brentford and Brighton.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

52 minutes ago, KMD7 said:

There wasn't a fucking free kick given.  Terrible reffing.

Linesman was, what, 10 yards away, and neither he nor the ref thought it was even a foul, when it was the very definition of a red card challenge. And how Atwell can't tell Pawson to at least look at it on the monitor himself confirms that he shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a football pitch. It was Atwell's performance in the game at Brighton last season, on top of the disatrous use of VAR, that was the final straw for me and I stopped watching live footy for the rest of the season.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, DaveT said:

Linesman was, what, 10 yards away, and neither he nor the ref thought it was even a foul, when it was the very definition of a red card challenge. And how Atwell can't tell Pawson to at least look at it on the monitor himself confirms that he shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a football pitch. It was Atwell's performance in the game at Brighton last season, on top of the disatrous use of VAR, that was the final straw for me and I stopped watching live footy for the rest of the season.

I don’t see how an honest ref behaves in that way, if you know what I mean. It’s genuinely incomprehensible.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The last week has really dented my confidence in terms of us winning the league. I still think we'll be there or thereabouts because the other teams are also dropping points but there's something not right about us, especially defensively.

  

We've always been a really front-foot team under Klopp but in the past we've defended counter attacks better than we are doing at the moment. All season we have looked more vulnerable than usual but have managed to just do enough. In the last two games, however (well game and a half, as I thought we controlled the first half yesterday) we've looked like we could concede at any moment and that's not a title-winning trait at all.

 

It doesn't help when your goalkeeper has a shocker of course, those two huge errors basically cost us the game.

 

I'm really concerned about VVD as well. There was an incident in the first half which I just cannot get over, when Antonio was clean through and Virgil just ambled back and watched it happening rather than sprinting over on the cover. It was absolutely mental; the kind of defending you expect to see at grassroots football not from the best defender in the world.

 

As I alluded to earlier, I was actually happy at half time because it looked as though Moyes was doing his usual shit against us, this inferiority complex that he's always seemed to have. We weren't brilliant with the ball, especially in the final third (*stares at Robbo in particular*) but aside from that Antonio incident, they didn't really show any desire to hurt us on the counter.

 

The second half was different though as they obviously decided to have a go whenever they nicked the ball from us, and we completely lost our patience and started over-committing, chasing the second goal. It turned into a bit of a basketball match and looked like a game from early into Klopp's reign. We needed to just keep the ball, probe and control everything but we were trying killer balls or playing the wrong pass and then kept getting countered. I was losing my shit.

 

I don't want to over-react because it's our first defeat in 26 games but when you throw it into the mix with some daft draws then it's obviously a concern. I think we can recover from this but we need to quickly improve in our overall control of a game.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

52 minutes ago, Boss said:

We're missing Naby Keita. We need a midfielder who can play one-touch football between the lines and makes runs that the front three should be making. Not having Jota central as well. He's okay on the left but whipping crosses into him against 6 foot 4 defenders is the most pointless tactic ever. 

You can't miss something you've never had. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, Brownie said:

 

There was an incident in the first half which I just cannot get over, when Antonio was clean through and Virgil just ambled back and watched it happening rather than sprinting over on the cover. It was absolutely mental; the kind of defending you expect to see at grassroots football not from the best defender in the world.

I remember at the time thinking what the fuck is he doing?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, chrisbonnie said:

There's an awful lot of hysteria from our fans after this game. 

 

Yeah we lost, yeah we weren't at our best. 

 

But ffs lads, that's our first loss this season, we played crap, yet only for dodgy decisions and mane missing a sitter at the end we could have drawn the game. 

 

The result will give our players the required kick up the arse they probably need anyway. 

 

I'll start worrying if we go on a crap run now. 

 

But I'm guessing we'll come back from international duty and go on another run up until Christmas. 

 

Chin up, you bunch of fannies

Its a matter of expectations. If the expectation is a top 4 challenge your post is spot on. 

 

If the expectation is a title challenge then no, you can't draw this sort of game let alone lose. Also "first loss of the season" is meaningless as in a title challenge in this league there isn't much difference between a loss or a draw. 

 

All your post tells me is one of two things

 

1) You expect us to be in a top 4 battle this season. If that's your view I have no problem with it. 

 

OR

 

2) You don't understand what the standard is going to be to challenge for the title this season. 

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Jordy Brouwer said:

Its a matter of expectations. If the expectation is a top 4 challenge your post is spot on. 

 

If the expectation is a title challenge then no, you can't draw this sort of game let alone lose. Also "first loss of the season" is meaningless as in a title challenge in this league there isn't much difference between a loss or a draw. 

 

All your post tells me is one of two things

 

1) You expect us to be in a top 4 battle this season. If that's your view I have no problem with it. 

 

OR

 

2) You don't understand what the standard is going to be to challenge for the title this season. 

The thing is, Chelsea and City are dropping daft points too.

 

Plus, everyone wrote City off at this time last season and look what happened.

 

Long time to go.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, MegadriveMan said:

Personally I didn't feel that we could win the league this year due to the lack of Investment since 2019.

 

If you break down our eleven league games so far, we've only beaten six poor teams, and failed to win against the five decent teams we have played. 

I'm coming down on the more pessimistic side too, but draws against Chelsea and Man City were good results from the five non-wins. As always, it's the Brighton/Brentford type setbacks that are the most costly as we could easily have won both. Yesterday was just a dreadful performance all around that we deserved nothing from. 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

City & Chelsea at Anfield were illuminating because  the former we should have lost, and the latter we perhaps would have gone on to lose if not for the sending off, and didn't look like winning despite the sending off. This season is more perturbing than last, as while the injury crisis last season deprived us of genuinely world class defenders, this season there is very little left in the midfield barrel - the quality simply isn't there. Its simply a result of under-investment - we do not have the right quality in certain skill-sets & positions. It is a more eminently winnable league than several seasons ago (i.e. 85-90 points likely takes it as opposed to 95-100), but this level of consistency probably has us set for a late-70s points total over the course of the season. In some respects it feels like more of a return to Rodgers-ball (when Rodgers had his one good team).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A bad performance. Yet West Ham imo was lucky to get away with the 3 points.

 

Agree Cresswell should've been given a straight red.

 

Can't understand that blocking the keeper as they did on the first goal isn't penalised. We should take advantage and do the same thing. West Ham has obviously practised this on the traininmg field. Not sure I like the rule but we need to adapt.

 

 

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share


×
×
  • Create New...