How good are we?

[lebron]

I'm normally one of the more positive posters in terms of us producing performances and results these days. Still, even I'm surprised at the absolute ease with which we now dominate games domestically and abroad.

 

I've just skimmed through the match thread, and much to my surprise (and amusement) some people seem desperate to downgrade our performance and make fun of the Portuguese keeper, claiming that Porto are shit/useless/not as good as Brentford etc. The other main topic seems to be Mane's lack of form/ability/passing etc.

 

While I'm not shocked that there are negative vibes on an Internet football forum, I just thought I'd gauge an opinion on how highly you rate this current Liverpool team. I'm a 47 year old man from Norway, and while I have regrettably only been to Anfield on a few occasions, I have been able to watch just about every game we've played since the early 90's via various satellite services. Back in the mid-80's, when I became a Liverpool supporter we only occasionally got to watch our favourite club, but one of the few positive things to come out of the founding of the Premier League was easier access to our games on TV.

 

Regarding the poll... I'm sure some of the ones even older than me (having seen our late 70s winning machine) visiting this site will correct me on this, but I have a hard time believing we've seen a Liverpool side this dominant before. The way money and players are now concentrated among a few elite clubs really only support this theory. We might not be THE best club in Europe (as our EC dominance 70's/80's suggests we were), but I for one have never seen a Liverpool side this good on and (in particular) off the ball. There may have been more aesthetically pleasing sides (like the 87-88 side), but do people really believe any of them could have taken this side on (modernising of the game and fitness issues notwithstanding). Do our (and FSG's) biggest critics really believe Porto (or Milan) are poor football teams from the get-go? These are sides with a clear identity and style of play that are near or at the top of their respective leagues. This was supposed to be the group of death, wasn't it?

 

Sorry if my tone is a bit off, I'd be able to express myself a bit better in my native tongue. I just can't understand how anyone can spend energy on complaining about missed chances, poor opposition on a night we win 5-1 with absolute ease against what is undoubtedly one of the better sides in Europe. For me, this side (2018-21) is by far the best version of Liverpool I've seen. Our workrate, pressing, off-the-ball movement is out of this world, and a key component in why most European and domestic sides can't live with us. It shocks me then that not many people seem to understand that that comes at a price whenever our attackers (or midfielders) misplace a pass, mess up a touch or a dribble etc. If they weren't working so god-damn hard, we wouldn't create as many chances! If we had a goal-hanger like Kane or C. Ronaldo, we just wouldn't create the amount of transitions and chances we do with our current system and philosophy (a real bugbear of mine is people overlooking Firmino's role in this).

 

Anyway, please answer before I digress any further...

[Jose Jones]

I'm a couple of years younger than you (win!) so don't remember the late 70s teams, and really 81-84 was just a haze of good memories with occasional games stuck in the memory.

It's hard to compare the 87-90 team because they obviously didn't play in Europe.

As a time period it's definitely the best since then though.  We had good teams under Ged and Rafa, but were still mainly underdogs. 

What a crap answer. 

[Ne Moe Imya]

I voted "one of the best sides I've seen" because I thought we were slightly better in 2019 but then after voting read your post and realised that the 2018-21 sides are all counted as one team in your reckoning, in which case I'd like to amend my vote to say that in that case it is easily the best.

[Jose Jones]

20 minutes ago, Ne Moe Imya said:

I voted "one of the best sides I've seen" because I thought we were slightly better in 2019 but then after voting read your post and realised that the 2018-21 sides are all counted as one team in your reckoning, in which case I'd like to amend my vote to say that in that case it is easily the best.

 

I agree we're not quite as good this season as we were in 2018 and 2019, at least not at the moment anyway.

Just a bit off, maybe mainly due to Mane and Firmino not being as good.  

[Pete]

We need another goal scorer like Owen or Fowler and another couple of midfielders to compete with the 87/88 side (most memorable in my lifetime). Apart from that we’re rather decent. Just wish we didn’t have all these injuries and we weren’t competing against financially doped cheats otherwise we’d be absolutely dominant. 

[Jairzinho]

@ZonkoVille77

[YorkshireRed]

It depends on whether we’re defining it on one particular season, or the lifecycle of a particular team that contains the majority of the same players. 
 

There’s a chance this team could end its cycle top of both trees but, at the moment, I’d have them below the 87/88 team and possibly below the 78/79.

 

A few more pots are needed in the next two to three seasons to give them a lifecycle comparable to the early 80’s team.

 

What is a definite is that we are currently very, very good. 

[Bob]

5 hours ago, Ne Moe Imya said:

I voted "one of the best sides I've seen" because I thought we were slightly better in 2019 but then after voting read your post and realised that the 2018-21 sides are all counted as one team in your reckoning, in which case I'd like to amend my vote to say that in that case it is easily the best.

Exactly this for me too. There’s no way this current team is as good as it was in 18/19, when Mane and Bobby were playing at a much higher level and Wijnaldum was ticking things over in midfield. That was comfortably the best team I properly remember seeing although I was 7 in 1988 so saw plenty of that team too, I just can’t remember it and wouldn’t have been able to appreciate it, beyond my love of John Barnes.

[deiseach]

I'm not making fun of Porto, because it's not funny how lopsided these games are. 

[sir roger]

The club legends , longevity and unprecedented haul of trophies in the 77/81 period makes me put that team at the top.

[VladimirIlyich]

8 hours ago, lebron said:

I'm normally one of the more positive posters in terms of us producing performances and results these days. Still, even I'm surprised at the absolute ease with which we now dominate games domestically and abroad.

 

I've just skimmed through the match thread, and much to my surprise (and amusement) some people seem desperate to downgrade our performance and make fun of the Portuguese keeper, claiming that Porto are shit/useless/not as good as Brentford etc. The other main topic seems to be Mane's lack of form/ability/passing etc.

 

While I'm not shocked that there are negative vibes on an Internet football forum, I just thought I'd gauge an opinion on how highly you rate this current Liverpool team. I'm a 47 year old man from Norway, and while I have regrettably only been to Anfield on a few occasions, I have been able to watch just about every game we've played since the early 90's via various satellite services. Back in the mid-80's, when I became a Liverpool supporter we only occasionally got to watch our favourite club, but one of the few positive things to come out of the founding of the Premier League was easier access to our games on TV.

 

Regarding the poll... I'm sure some of the ones even older than me (having seen our late 70s winning machine) visiting this site will correct me on this, but I have a hard time believing we've seen a Liverpool side this dominant before. The way money and players are now concentrated among a few elite clubs really only support this theory. We might not be THE best club in Europe (as our EC dominance 70's/80's suggests we were), but I for one have never seen a Liverpool side this good on and (in particular) off the ball. There may have been more aesthetically pleasing sides (like the 87-88 side), but do people really believe any of them could have taken this side on (modernising of the game and fitness issues notwithstanding). Do our (and FSG's) biggest critics really believe Porto (or Milan) are poor football teams from the get-go? These are sides with a clear identity and style of play that are near or at the top of their respective leagues. This was supposed to be the group of death, wasn't it?

 

Sorry if my tone is a bit off, I'd be able to express myself a bit better in my native tongue. I just can't understand how anyone can spend energy on complaining about missed chances, poor opposition on a night we win 5-1 with absolute ease against what is undoubtedly one of the better sides in Europe. For me, this side (2018-21) is by far the best version of Liverpool I've seen. Our workrate, pressing, off-the-ball movement is out of this world, and a key component in why most European and domestic sides can't live with us. It shocks me then that not many people seem to understand that that comes at a price whenever our attackers (or midfielders) misplace a pass, mess up a touch or a dribble etc. If they weren't working so god-damn hard, we wouldn't create as many chances! If we had a goal-hanger like Kane or C. Ronaldo, we just wouldn't create the amount of transitions and chances we do with our current system and philosophy (a real bugbear of mine is people overlooking Firmino's role in this).

 

Anyway, please answer before I digress any further...

Fuck off Code!

[Jose Jones]

2 hours ago, Pete said:

We need another goal scorer like Owen or Fowler and another couple of midfielders to compete with the 87/88 side (most memorable in my lifetime). Apart from that we’re rather decent. Just wish we didn’t have all these injuries and we weren’t competing against financially doped cheats otherwise we’d be absolutely dominant. 

We didn’t have Owen and Fowler 87-88 either!

Back up forwards were Paul Walsh and Craig Johnston, midfielders maybe Molby and Spackman?

 

[Pete]

6 minutes ago, Jose Jones said:

We didn’t have Owen and Fowler 87-88 either!

Back up forwards were Paul Walsh and Craig Johnston, midfielders maybe Molby and Spackman?

 

No. We had Rush, Aldridge, Barnes, Beardsley & those mentioned above by yourself. I feel there is a massive drop off in goal scoring ability off the bench or when one of SMF get injured or have a dip in form. 

[Arnaud]

This team has been amazing and the start of the season we claimed number 19 was a freak until the Wattford game. 

I still think a majority of fans appreciate the quality of this team. But Porto definitely had a day off yesterday, the keeper was so bad.

 

For some reasons, my Norwegian isn’t as good as my French, and sometimes I wish I had words in English to express what this team has brought me in emotions and good feelings. Great post, Lebron.

 

[Bjornebye]

I don't know the answer. That's a good place to be. I remember my Dad being adamant that the 87/88 side was still better than our current side even when we were about 600 points clear in the league 2 seasons ago. 

[YorkshireRed]

1 minute ago, Bjornebye said:

I don't know the answer. That's a good place to be. I remember my Dad being adamant that the 87/88 side was still better than our current side even when we were about 600 points clear in the league 2 seasons ago. 

Your Dad is right. If you go through the teams player for player it at least generates a debate, but the sheer quality that 87/88 side produced throughout the season puts them top of the tree. 

[joe_fishfish]

Too young to remember the 87/88 side or anything before that, but this team would easily beat the 08/09 side which is probably the best I saw under any manager that isn't Klopp. 08/09 might be a threat on the break with a fully fit Torres and Gerrard, but there's no way they're keeping Mo out for 90 minutes.

[Arnaud]

29 minutes ago, YorkshireRed said:

Your Dad is right. If you go through the teams player for player it at least generates a debate, but the sheer quality that 87/88 side produced throughout the season puts them top of the tree. 

What about the opposition ? Unfortunately that team did not play against the Great Milan.  Domestically, were  Everton, Forest or Arsenal as good as City or Chelsea ? It’s a genuine question.  

[Jose Jones]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

No. We had Rush, Aldridge, Barnes, Beardsley & those mentioned above by yourself. I feel there is a massive drop off in goal scoring ability off the bench or when one of SMF get injured or have a dip in form. 

Nah we didn’t have Rush.

[YorkshireRed]

1 minute ago, Arnaud said:

What about the opposition ? Unfortunately that team did not play against the Great Milan.  Domestically, were  Everton, Forest or Arsenal as good as City or Chelsea ? It’s a genuine question.  

It’s a good question and one that certainly adds value to the argument that the current team is better. Not only did they not play in Europe, they also weren’t playing two games a week, with all the additional travel, anywhere near as often. 
 

For me though, it’s not about the opposition. It’s how that team played, the goals they scored, the way they despatched teams. The ‘poetry in motion’ song came later, but this team was that before we sang about it.

 

The Nottingham Forrest home game is rightly lauded as the pinnacle performance (if you haven’t seen the interview with Sir Tom Finney, that took place after that match, then check it out) but there were many others that glorious season, of the top of my head.

 

QPR home

Arsenal home

Everton home 

Newcastle away

Forrest semi 

 

Just my opinion, the arguments for the current team are strong but my eyes saw what they saw.

[dockers_strike]

10 hours ago, lebron said:

I'm normally one of the more positive posters in terms of us producing performances and results these days. Still, even I'm surprised at the absolute ease with which we now dominate games domestically and abroad.

 

I've just skimmed through the match thread, and much to my surprise (and amusement) some people seem desperate to downgrade our performance and make fun of the Portuguese keeper, claiming that Porto are shit/useless/not as good as Brentford etc. The other main topic seems to be Mane's lack of form/ability/passing etc.

 

While I'm not shocked that there are negative vibes on an Internet football forum, I just thought I'd gauge an opinion on how highly you rate this current Liverpool team. I'm a 47 year old man from Norway, and while I have regrettably only been to Anfield on a few occasions, I have been able to watch just about every game we've played since the early 90's via various satellite services. Back in the mid-80's, when I became a Liverpool supporter we only occasionally got to watch our favourite club, but one of the few positive things to come out of the founding of the Premier League was easier access to our games on TV.

 

Regarding the poll... I'm sure some of the ones even older than me (having seen our late 70s winning machine) visiting this site will correct me on this, but I have a hard time believing we've seen a Liverpool side this dominant before. The way money and players are now concentrated among a few elite clubs really only support this theory. We might not be THE best club in Europe (as our EC dominance 70's/80's suggests we were), but I for one have never seen a Liverpool side this good on and (in particular) off the ball. There may have been more aesthetically pleasing sides (like the 87-88 side), but do people really believe any of them could have taken this side on (modernising of the game and fitness issues notwithstanding). Do our (and FSG's) biggest critics really believe Porto (or Milan) are poor football teams from the get-go? These are sides with a clear identity and style of play that are near or at the top of their respective leagues. This was supposed to be the group of death, wasn't it?

 

Sorry if my tone is a bit off, I'd be able to express myself a bit better in my native tongue. I just can't understand how anyone can spend energy on complaining about missed chances, poor opposition on a night we win 5-1 with absolute ease against what is undoubtedly one of the better sides in Europe. For me, this side (2018-21) is by far the best version of Liverpool I've seen. Our workrate, pressing, off-the-ball movement is out of this world, and a key component in why most European and domestic sides can't live with us. It shocks me then that not many people seem to understand that that comes at a price whenever our attackers (or midfielders) misplace a pass, mess up a touch or a dribble etc. If they weren't working so god-damn hard, we wouldn't create as many chances! If we had a goal-hanger like Kane or C. Ronaldo, we just wouldn't create the amount of transitions and chances we do with our current system and philosophy (a real bugbear of mine is people overlooking Firmino's role in this).

 

Anyway, please answer before I digress any further...

Good points.

 

I find it hard to say one era's team is better than another because if you put any of our best era teams in today's competitions, it would likely dominate this era as much as it did its own.

 

The mighty Real Madrid got dicked by a no mark team last night.

 

 

[RobbieOR]

I personally think this is our best ever. We barely dropped a point in the league for two seasons. Players like Van Dijk, Salah, Alisson will go down with the very best in our history, 

[Scott_M]

We’re are top of the league, have a 100% record in the Champions League and have scored at least 3 goals every match this season bar Chelsea.

 

But I didn't enjoy any of that as our squad depth is too thin. 
 

 

I’m 40 in a couple of weeks and it’s clearly the best side I’ve ever seen us have.

[stringvest]

can someone get Scott a saucer of milk?

[Scott_M]

2 minutes ago, stringvest said:

can someone get Scott a saucer of milk?

I also don’t watch TV shows in case they ever get cancelled.