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Bjornebye

All Time TLW XI (Non Liverpool) Team - Manager - Nomination (1 Each)

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12 hours ago, Jairzinho said:

Arrigo Sacchi. 

1 league win and 2 back to back CLs

 

Zidane has a better record

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5 hours ago, m0e said:

1 league win and 2 back to back CLs

 

Zidane has a better record

To be fair, Zidane has a better record than Klopp… and none of us would claim that he’s a better manager than the German.

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2 hours ago, Jairzinho said:

Roberto Di Matteo is a better manager than Diego Simeone.

 

 

I'd didn't say he was a better manager. I said he has a better record.

 

There are a few who are clearly better managers than Ariggo Sacchi though 

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38 minutes ago, m0e said:

I'd didn't say he was a better manager. I said he has a better record.

 

There are a few who are clearly better managers than Ariggo Sacchi though 

It was a bit of a Rain Man analysis of management ability. I genuinely thought you were joking.

 

Ariggo Sacchi is one of the most influential managers in the history of the sport. It would be absurd to say otherwise.

 

 

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45 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

It was a bit of a Rain Man analysis of management ability. I genuinely thought you were joking.

 

Ariggo Sacchi is one of the most influential managers in the history of the sport. It would be absurd to say otherwise.

 

 

I was definitely joking about Zidane.

 

But I think picking Sacchi over Busby, Stein or even Feguson is misguided.

 

I also think if Sacchi's in the reckoning, you could argue Guardiola, Mourinho or even Clough. All hugely influential, while winning more titles.

 

Thoughts?

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1 minute ago, YorkshireRed said:

I voted Rinus Michaels not for what he won as a manager but for the way he’d get this team playing. This team would play total football and then some under him. 

il_570xN.2664186849_5idk.jpg

 

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1 minute ago, Bjornebye said:

il_570xN.2664186849_5idk.jpg

 

Like the Ronaldo/Pele debate, I like Jock Stein. He just wasn’t as good as Michels. 
 

Its not a criticism, but Stein wasn’t even the best manager from within a small radius of where he was born. That said, his achievements are up there with the best managers in history. No question. 

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27 minutes ago, m0e said:

I was definitely joking about Zidane.

 

But I think picking Sacchi over Busby, Stein or even Feguson is misguided.

 

I also think if Sacchi's in the reckoning, you could argue Guardiola, Mourinho or even Clough. All hugely influential, while winning more titles.

 

Thoughts?

Well, two of them had already been selected in my defence. And I'm not saying he's the best manager ever. I don't really have an opinion on who is.

 

I think also someone like Guardiola will have been heavily influenced by Sacchi. Directly/Consciously or otherwise. The same with Klopp. 

 

Quite a lot of this stuff simply isn't quantifiable. Or is incredibly difficult to compare. Mourinho with Ferguson for example. Do you prefer longevity at a club, or doing it in different leagues. Purely winning trophies, or style of football. Ability to improve players, bringing through players from the academy, ability to adapt styles. Etc, etc.

 

It's interesting to me, for example, that Cruyff and Sacchi who both had an enormous impact on the game as managers both had relatively short managerial careers.

 

 

Quite a good example of the difficulty of these comparisons is Shankly and Paisley. Paisley obviously won a lot more, but wouldn't have won a thing here without the groundwork (and then some) of Shankly. As Paisley himself said.

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14 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

Well, two of them had already been selected in my defence. And I'm not saying he's the best manager ever. I don't really have an opinion on who is.

 

I think also someone like Guardiola will have been heavily influenced by Sacchi. Directly/Consciously or otherwise. The same with Klopp. 

 

Quite a lot of this stuff simply isn't quantifiable. Or is incredibly difficult to compare. Mourinho with Ferguson for example. Do you prefer longevity at a club, or doing it in different leagues. Purely winning trophies, or style of football. Ability to improve players, bringing through players from the academy, ability to adapt styles. Etc, etc.

 

It's interesting to me, for example, that Cruyff and Sacchi who both had an enormous impact on the game as managers both had relatively short managerial careers.

 

 

Quite a good example of the difficulty of these comparisons is Shankly and Paisley. Paisley obviously won a lot more, but wouldn't have won a thing here without the groundwork (and then some) of Shankly. As Paisley himself said.

I agree with all that.

 

Like with all these things, I think the criteria (how to decide) is a better discussion that the manager (the who).

 

Is it about influence, consistency, trophies, innovation...?

 

And which of those criteria holds more water?

 

Thanks for engaging 

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