Energy Prices

[Rico1304]

7 minutes ago, Paulie Dangerously said:

Having a go at Martin Lewis for advising people to find the best deal for throw energy seems a bit kneejerk. Like blaming someone who advised swimming for health reasons because the sea was full of shit that day.

 

 

That’s not what I’m saying though.  He knew exactly what was happening, he knew they weren’t hedging and were spending credit balances and that the minute the gas or elec price rose it would collapse.  Something like 70% of the suppliers have gone bump.  Don’t you think that’s a bit suspicious?  
 

I’ll say again the regulator was fucking hopeless in allowing it but he promoted it.  Even someone like Octopus, who are decently hedged and have great customer service have only made a profit one year. Now, they are selling tenners for £8.  

[stringvest]

2 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

Spot on mate.  But, a narcissist has a complete lack of empathy with anyone but themself and loves having the attention of everyone else.

 

Indirectly, it may cost energy companies but once again, the cost of failed suppliers is added to our bills. So we end up paying, not them.

That’s the point Rico was making.  

[dockers_strike]

6 minutes ago, stringvest said:

That’s the point Rico was making.  

Since de regulation in 1998 upto late 2020, that's the best part of nearly 25 years, one would be a bit daft not to say the energy market has worked well for consumers. It's only a shit storm of recent events, some unforeseen and some self inflicted, that has resulted in 20 suppliers going bust.

 

I dont think Lewis encouraged or created that scenario. Myself, I used to use Sergei and Alexander to find the best deal for me. I cant think of any instance where I went for the cheapest because other T&C's applied which I always took into consideration.

[Rico1304]

7 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

Spot on mate.  But, a narcissist has a complete lack of empathy with anyone but themself and loves having the attention of everyone else.

 

Indirectly, it may cost energy companies but once again, the cost of failed suppliers is added to our bills. So we end up paying, not them.

Me?  
 

Imagine being a pensioner who didn’t switch because they didn’t understand it or felt loyal to their incumbent. There are millions of them.  Now, they didn’t benefit from the low rates and are now having to subsidise the collapse of the failed companies so they are in effect being made to pay twice.  That makes me annoyed and how it shows a lack of empathy is completely beyond me. 
 

I can’t help it that you don’t understand how the energy market works.  The energy companies that had poor practice are gone, how can they be forced to pick up the cost? It falls to who’s left. That falls to who ever takes on their customers.  Credit balances are drawn from a fund so customers don’t lose out but even a well hedged supplier can’t take on a million customers if they would be losing say £200 on each one every year.  The government wouldn’t let Bulb hedge, I’ve told you before Bulb asked for help before they went under but the government wouldn’t so it’s ended up costing more.  
 

 

[Rico1304]

10 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

Since de regulation in 1998 upto late 2020, that's the best part of nearly 25 years, one would be a bit daft not to say the energy market has worked well for consumers. It's only a shit storm of recent events, some unforeseen and some self inflicted, that has resulted in 20 suppliers going bust.

 

I dont think Lewis encouraged or created that scenario. Myself, I used to use Sergei and Alexander to find the best deal for me. I cant think of any instance where I went for the cheapest because other T&C's applied which I always took into consideration.

For the vast majority of that time there were a handful of suppliers, the big 6 and some disrupters.  It’s only in the last say 5/6 years you had an explosion to over 90.  Now there are about 25 and that will collapse again in winter. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

25 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

Since de regulation in 1998 upto late 2020... one would be a bit daft not to say the energy market has worked well for consumers. 

I'd need to see your working-out on that.

[elvis]

On 28/07/2022 at 13:10, TheHowieLama said:

"Clad in nothing but a gold lame thong and sporting a fake moustache..."

"Wife keeps business going as apparently  this is the hardest he's been for years "

Or something. 

[Bruce Spanner]

With the nationalised French energy firms only raising prices by 4% and the privatised UK, ironicaly funding the French subsidised sector, raising by 54%, and further to 78% in October, they'll be a genuine and legitimate claim that we should start to look at nationalisation coming from unexpected corners soon enough.

[dockers_strike]

58 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

I'd need to see your working-out on that.

You dont think the sector generally worked ok for consumers between 1998 and 2020? I might be out by a few months but prices started rocketing late 2020 \ early 2021?

 

 

[Arniepie]

I don't know how people are hoping to cope.

Mine has nearly doubled and I'm very worried

2 stories on the BBC today, saying the profits are astronomical and an other saying the help the government are giving won't touch the sides.

I'm no expert but someone,somewhere is making a shit load of money

Why is France's rise since low,and ours so high?

[Gnasher]

43 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

With the nationalised French energy firms only raising prices by 4% and the privatised UK, ironicaly funding the French subsidised sector, raising by 54%, and further to 78% in October, they'll be a genuine and legitimate claim that we should start to look at nationalisation coming from unexpected corners soon enough.

 

It's the previously expected corners that are putting up the barriers.

[John102]

When do we all turn up at Ricos gates and riot?

[dockers_strike]

1 hour ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

I'd need to see your working-out on that.

Sorry, couldnt update my original reply due to timeout.

 

This is part of a report dated around 2016 I believe as it used 2015 and 2016 as datum points and, also when we were in the EU.

 

A pertinent para says this:

 

When comparing prices across the EU28 using market exchange rates, the UK prices are
generally below the median for gas and above the median for electricity. When the comparisons
correct for differences between countries using the PPS, the UK is below the median for both gas
and electricity. UK rankings, when measured using market exchange rates, improved between
2015 and 2016. This is due to the depreciation of the pound.

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/647341/International_Energy_Price_Comparisons_September_2017.pdf

 

Of course none of this helps with the current dreadful situation. I think the Government is going to find itself between a rock and a very hard place very soon as the cap is predicted to rise again, not just in October but in January as well.

 

Hardly anyone will be able to afford gas and leccie if that is the case and severe intervention will be required.

[Rico1304]

Answering a different question to the one asked. As usual. 

[Rico1304]

34 minutes ago, John102 said:

When do we all turn up at Ricos gates and riot?

Hey, I’m out of the retail game - 4 years now.  I just rent meters.  

[Strontium]

1 hour ago, Arniepie said:

Why is France's rise since low,and ours so high?

 

Isn't almost all their electricity generated by nuclear and renewables? So they won't be impacted by soaring gas prices as much as us.

[Gnasher]

1 hour ago, John102 said:

When do we all turn up at Ricos gates and riot?

In fairness to Rico he definitely knows his onions, he knows the energy game top to bottom.

 

Bizarre burt he also knows everything known to man (or women) about transsexuals, expert on the subject. 

 

He should go on mastermind..he'd probably win.

 

John Humphrys..Name please?

 

Rico.. Rico

 

JH..Location?

 

Rico..  Manchester but not the rough part, done well for myself John.

 

JH.. Specialist subject...

 

Rico.. Transsexual gas engineers, 20th century till present day.

[Creator Supreme]

4 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

In fairness to Rico he definitely knows his onions, he knows the energy game top to bottom.

 

Bizarre burt he also knows everything known to man (or women) about transsexuals, expert on the subject. 

 

He should go on mastermind..he'd probably win.

 

John Humphrys..Name please?

 

Rico.. Rico

 

JH..Location?

 

Rico..  Manchester but not the rough part, done well for myself John.

 

JH.. Specialist subject...

 

Rico.. Transsexual gas engineers, 20th century till present day.

Point of Order Gnasher, Clive Myrie presents it now.

 

But come on Rico, go for it, the viewing figures would be immense, and you'd be guaranteed a slot on Mock the Week and Late Night Mash!

[Rico1304]

32 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

In fairness to Rico he definitely knows his onions, he knows the energy game top to bottom.

 

Bizarre burt he also knows everything known to man (or women) about transsexuals, expert on the subject. 

 

He should go on mastermind..he'd probably win.

 

John Humphrys..Name please?

 

Rico.. Rico

 

JH..Location?

 

Rico..  Manchester but not the rough part, done well for myself John.

 

JH.. Specialist subject...

 

Rico.. Transsexual gas engineers, 20th century till present day.

That’s funny. Honestly.  But I know nothing about gas engineers. Completely different game.  

[Strontium]

4 hours ago, Gnasher said:

 

Labour could send a message about energy profits by getting their councils to offload the £4bn+ they have invested in fossil fuel firms.

[Duncan Clench]

4 hours ago, Arniepie said:

Why is France's rise since low,and ours so high?

 

Their energy firms are nationalised and the government have protected the public from the huge increases.

 

The best bit is that EDF, the French energy company, made £106million profit in the UK last year.

[TheHowieLama]

3 hours ago, Strontium said:

 

Isn't almost all their electricity generated by nuclear and renewables? So they won't be impacted by soaring gas prices as much as us.

Yes, something like three quarters of it.

[Strontium]

1 minute ago, TheHowieLama said:

Yes, something like three quarters of it.

 

Almost yes, and about 20% renewables. Fossil fuels is under 10% of electricity generation in France. In the UK it's more than one third of electricity that is produced by gas, a lot of which we import. France by contrast is an energy exporter. Last year we imported £20 billion of gas, whereas the year before it was £5bn. We're really paying the price for not being self-sufficient in energy.

[Rico1304]

21 minutes ago, Strontium said:

 

Almost yes, and about 20% renewables. Fossil fuels is under 10% of electricity generation in France. In the UK it's more than one third of electricity that is produced by gas, a lot of which we import. France by contrast is an energy exporter. Last year we imported £20 billion of gas, whereas the year before it was £5bn. We're really paying the price for not being self-sufficient in energy.

A huge amount of the LPG we import was simply diverted to South America despite being en route to the U.K.  as they had a heat wave and needed to power their air conditioning. 

[dandyman]

5 hours ago, dockers_strike said:

You dont think the sector generally worked ok for consumers between 1998 and 2020? I might be out by a few months but prices started rocketing late 2020 \ early 2021?

 

 

2009 and 2013 definitely weren’t great times in the energy sector, admittedly neither on the scale as to what we have now 

 

The market is cyclical, very 5/6 years we see the same things whether that be high or low prices. As Rico says, we’ve seen a boom in new entrants with little or no business plan, a lack of capital and little strategy.

 

The reason domestic customers didn’t feel the pain as much as now is because we had quite sensible suppliers who had long term hedging strategies and quite deep pockets to secure those hedges against.

 

The market was flooded with charlatans of the back of 2013 price drops, thinking they could ride off the back of low energy prices, and with a regulator that allows companies to enter without any financial backing and exit by passing those losses onto retail customers, that just encouraged the rise in new suppliers.

 

A veiled attempt by Nottingham Council, to help its residents out (Robin Hood Energy, quite the irony) by setting itself up as a supplier and going pop before this all really kicked off was the first warning sign of trouble.

 

This is with us for the next 2-3 years as we pay off the debts of these failed suppliers, whilst the directors will no doubt be setting up again with some renewable energy scheme and tarnishing that industry