Energy Prices

[dandyman]

5 hours ago, Rico1304 said:

By mainstream do you include Goldmans and Blackrock?  
 

Im describing what will happen, think of Housing Associations or councils for example. They’ll take the debt risk and pass it on to their tenants rolled into rents.  You’d no more separate the battery/solar element of your rent than you would windows or roof.
 

In a world without gas boilers something that saves you electricity costs will be a positive not a negative.  

That is exactly the model we’ve been working on for sometime now.

 

the challenge is that currently the sector has rent caps and most if not all, homes are charged at that cap. There needs to be industry wide change for this to be part of rent.

 

The alternative is to charge as some kind of service charge (with a fair usage policy), there already examples of district heat systems where landlords charge for heat.

 

with self generated power from PV and Battery you’re looking at a sub 20p / kWh rate

[johnsusername]

British Gas offering a fixed tariff for the next year, though not saying what it is until I get in touch with them.

 

Would it be a mistake to fix a tariff at the highest prices in history? Or a mistake not to take up the offer before prices go even higher? 

[YorkshireRed]

43 minutes ago, johnsusername said:

British Gas offering a fixed tariff for the next year, though not saying what it is until I get in touch with them.

 

Would it be a mistake to fix a tariff at the highest prices in history? Or a mistake not to take up the offer before prices go even higher? 

You’re fucked either way. We all are.

 

Happy to help. 

[sir roger]

Moving into a new house in the next week or so. Was with EON , but moved out of the previous house about 6 weeks ago and been staying with my daughter til the house came through. What are my options ? Has anybody I choose got to take me on or do I have to start again  with EON ( do they have to take me on ? )

[dockers_strike]

4 minutes ago, sir roger said:

Moving into a new house in the next week or so. Was with EON , but moved out of the previous house about 6 weeks ago and been staying with my daughter til the house came through. What are my options ? Has anybody I choose got to take me on or do I have to start again  with EON ( do they have to take me on ? )

Is the house a 'new build' Roger or just new to you? If it's a new build, you'll need to find out who is providing utilities the builder has signed up with as they usually need a connection to commission boiler and electric supply.

 

You'd need your meters MPAN for electricity and Meter Point Reference for gas. You should then be able to find out who the supplier for both is.

 

You can then use a comparision site to get the best quote and transfer supply to them once you've bought the house and it's best to get a meter reading as soon as possible after completion so you arent billed for any builder's use.

 

Your supply with EON finished when you moved out and submitted final meter reads to them. They dont have any call on your new property unless the builder has them as the supplier at a new build.

 

If you're moving to an existing property ie not new build, pretty much the same applies. Submit final reads for your old gaff, tell EON you've moved out and to send a finalised bill. Use a comparision site to get the best quote on the new property and off you go.

[dockers_strike]

1 hour ago, johnsusername said:

British Gas offering a fixed tariff for the next year, though not saying what it is until I get in touch with them.

 

Would it be a mistake to fix a tariff at the highest prices in history? Or a mistake not to take up the offer before prices go even higher? 

Tough choice. Im sitting tight on Octopus' Flexible Avro tariff for now. There's the Government hand out coming in October and I think they will be under massive pressure to do something else if the cap increases again, as expected, in October.

 

If you can afford to budget your energy bills through the winter months, Im inclined to do that and see how it goes.

 

Octopus wanted to increase my DD in July from £125 to £207 to build up credit for winter. I told them fuck that, my last 2 bills have been less than my DD due to summer use and I'll make up balancing payments from October when needed. I prefer the money in my account not theirs.

 

Octopus will let you pay for what you use, each month, rather than a DD of annual consumption / 12 if you ask.

[Rico1304]

1 hour ago, sir roger said:

Moving into a new house in the next week or so. Was with EON , but moved out of the previous house about 6 weeks ago and been staying with my daughter til the house came through. What are my options ? Has anybody I choose got to take me on or do I have to start again  with EON ( do they have to take me on ? )

Just take a meter reading when the property becomes yours and phone up whichever supplier you choose.  They’ll do the rest.  
 

Edit: always good to get a photo of the readings.

[sir roger]

Yes, it's an existing house. If there is nothing particularly exciting on comparison sites I might try EON as they were quite easy to deal with when we got left behind by Igloo and Bulb in quick succession.

[Rico1304]

5 minutes ago, sir roger said:

Yes, it's an existing house. If there is nothing particularly exciting on comparison sites I might try EON as they were quite easy to deal with when we got left behind by Igloo and Bulb in quick succession.

Always worth getting a smart meter fitted too if there isn’t one already. 

[sir roger]

1 minute ago, Rico1304 said:

Always worth getting a smart meter fitted too if there isn’t one already. 

Was thinking that.

 

The main issue for us is that the wife is eyeing up fancy balanced flue gas fires while I am looking at stocking up on thick cardigans.

[Trumo]

2 hours ago, johnsusername said:

British Gas offering a fixed tariff for the next year, though not saying what it is until I get in touch with them.

 

Would it be a mistake to fix a tariff at the highest prices in history? Or a mistake not to take up the offer before prices go even higher? 

 

Fixed tariffs are far higher than the flexible ones, but the flexis are susceptible to the price cap. From what I've seen, most providers are still keen on retaining customers rather than pursuing new ones, so you can find fixed renewal tariffs that, while in all likelihood still more than what you were on before the shit hit the fan, are closer to the current flexi prices rather than the current fixed prices on offer.

 

I'm on a fixed deal for £117/month but that ends in September. I've factored in the possibility that I'll be looking at £200/month minimum from then, so just need to decide whether to go flexi or fixed.

[Rico1304]

2 minutes ago, Trumo said:

 

Fixed tariffs are far higher than the flexible ones, but the flexis are susceptible to the price cap. From what I've seen, most providers are still keen on retaining customers rather than pursuing new ones, so you can find fixed renewal tariffs that, while in all likelihood still more than what you were on before the shit hit the fan, are closer to the current flexi prices rather than the current fixed prices on offer.

 

I'm on a fixed deal for £117/month but that ends in September. I've factored in the possibility that I'll be looking at £200/month minimum from then, so just need to decide whether to go flexi or fixed.

Customer switching has dropped off a cliff as there are no good deals about.  I monitor those numbers as part of my job and it’s very weird to see some suppliers have almost identical numbers month after month.  I thought our system had broken at first. 

[Harry's Lad]

My fix ends next month, I was paying £102 pm.

I've just had an email, my renewal is £334.30 pm fixed for 12 months.

 

That's over £4000 per year as opposed to about £1100.

Fucking outrageous.

 

 

 

[elvis]

3 minutes ago, Harry's Lad said:

My fix ends next month, I was paying £102 pm.

I've just had an email, my renewal is £334.30 pm fixed for 12 months.

 

That's over £4000 per year as opposed to about £1100.

Fucking outrageous.

 

 

 

Buy a campervan.

Welcome.

[YorkshireRed]

Unless some significant support is in the pipeline this winter is going to see, perhaps, millions in some form of ‘heat or eat’ dilemma.
 

Some of those will simply be adjusting habits, but many others will be in a position that potentially impacts their mental and physical health. The ramifications of that will have a knock on effect on many areas of a society already under pressure.

 

I suspect that the cost to ‘clean up’ the mess this will create is far greater than the level of support currently being offered. It probably still would be if the support was multiplied by five.

 

If there is a God then I hope he/she/they see fit to help us out by providing a mild winter. It does seem to be getting to the stage where the help of a higher power is needed, the powers on earth seem incapable/unwilling/disinterested. 

[Rico1304]

I work with a bloke who was previously in charge of pricing at EDFE, we had a few beers last night and he was telling us that lots of the smaller suppliers were selling at below cost for years and siphoning off cash.  Ofgem allowed it happen under the excuse of ‘cheap energy is good for consumers’ it was a big Ponzi scheme.  When Bulb first approached the government to say they were in trouble (and they still had a decent hedge and cash in the bank) the said they couldn’t help until they went under, so instead of it costing the tax payer £3bn it could have been say £0.5bn. Only when the hedge had expired and the cash burnt would they help. 
 

All the new rules around the operation of energy companies mean the days of (artificially) cheap energy are gone.

[dockers_strike]

4 hours ago, Harry's Lad said:

My fix ends next month, I was paying £102 pm.

I've just had an email, my renewal is £334.30 pm fixed for 12 months.

 

That's over £4000 per year as opposed to about £1100.

Fucking outrageous.

 

 

 

MSE says not to fix and just go with the cap unless you can find a cheaper tariff. Pretty obvious Id say but finding a cheaper fixed tariff is like finding rocking horse shit.

 

Im staying on Octopus' Avro variable. They wanted to up my DD from £125 to £207 as this would build a cushion for winter. Told them no way was I doing that and would stick with the current DD and top up my bill payments when they increase.  To be fair they went with this and left my DD as is.

4 hours ago, YorkshireRed said:

Unless some significant support is in the pipeline this winter is going to see, perhaps, millions in some form of ‘heat or eat’ dilemma.
 

Some of those will simply be adjusting habits, but many others will be in a position that potentially impacts their mental and physical health. The ramifications of that will have a knock on effect on many areas of a society already under pressure.

 

I suspect that the cost to ‘clean up’ the mess this will create is far greater than the level of support currently being offered. It probably still would be if the support was multiplied by five.

 

If there is a God then I hope he/she/they see fit to help us out by providing a mild winter. It does seem to be getting to the stage where the help of a higher power is needed, the powers on earth seem incapable/unwilling/disinterested. 

Yep, totally agree. Fingers crossed for a mild winter because OFGEM, useless fuckers, are now agreeing with that Cambridge group who are forecasting the cap to be higher than expected from October.

 

The old girl saw a money saving tip of using the garden solar lights inside the house in the darker nights to save on leccie!!

 

Heaven help us indeed.

[Harry's Lad]

29 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

MSE says not to fix and just go with the cap unless you can find a cheaper tariff. Pretty obvious Id say but finding a cheaper fixed tariff is like finding rocking horse shit.

 

 

I had a look around and some of them are charging even more so that's exactly what I'm going to do. 

 

There'll be civil unrest if they don't get a grip on these bills and the cost of living crisis before long I fear.

I really don't want to see it but people have had enough. When it blows....

 

[Mook]

1 minute ago, Harry's Lad said:

I had a look around and some of them are charging even more so that's exactly what I'm going to do. 

 

There'll be civil unrest if they don't get a grip on these bills and the cost of living crisis before long I fear.

I really don't want to see it but people have had enough. When it blows....

 

I've been saying this for a while, when you take the majority's cosy little lives (Netflix, Sky TV, holidays, Just Eat, cars etc.) away from them, there is going to be civil unrest and those things are starting to go now for a lot of fucking people.

[Vincent Vega]

Absolutely damning this on Ofgem and our energy sector in general. But it’s us mugs who pick up the tab for their ineptitude.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/jul/26/how-ex-footballers-energy-gamble-ended-up-costing-bill-payers-700m-avro
 

How ex-footballer’s energy gamble ended up costing bill payers £700m

Collapse of Avro among those highlighted in MPs’ damning report blaming much of fiasco on Ofgem
 

As customers of Avro Energy forked out for their gas and electricity direct debits, they had no idea that they were only postponing the death of a badly run business whose collapse would end up costing bill payers £700m.

 

Despite having no apparent background in the complex energy industry, Avro’s founder, Jake Brown, a former non-league footballer, set up the company with a family loan in 2016. Within a few years of the company’s entry into the market, Avro had amassed half a million customers while enriching Brown and his family along the way.

 

Between 2019 and 2020, those customers – who paid for their energy in advance – funded £4.25m in “management charges” funnelled to Sentido Marketing, owned and controlled by Brown, now 28, and his father, Philip, 58, the company’s other director.

 

During the same period, Avro, based in Hinckley in Leicestershire, lent £700,000 to its owner-directors, the same father-and-son team. It also lent another £830,000 to Berkeley Swiss Ltd, a property development company whose directors and majority owners should be obvious by now: Jake and Philip Brown.

 

In September 2021, having racked up losses of £55m in seven years, Avro collapsed into administration, owing £90m to its 580,000 customers.

 

Those customers – and the bulk of their credit balances – were taken on by healthier rival Octopus Energy. But the cost of Avro’s failure, which will be borne ultimately by every bill payer in the country, has been estimated by the energy regulator Ofgem at £700m.

 

It is Ofgem that should take much of the blame for the fiasco, according to Tuesday’s report by MPs on the business and energy select committee.

 

A phalanx of companies flooded the market nearly a decade ago, responding to a deregulatory drive by the regulator to keep prices low by fostering competition for the big six suppliers such as British Gas, SSE and EDF Energy.

 

One of the new challengers was Avro, which was launched by Brown shortly after he finished an undergraduate law degree.

 

Aged just 22, neither he nor his father had ever done anything close to running a major energy supplier. Yet that proved no barrier to entry.

 

Asked at a select committee hearing last year whether he had taken any kind of test to show he was a “fit and proper” person to shoulder such responsibility, Jake Brown thought hard. “I don’t believe so … unless Ofgem did a background thing on me. I don’t remember ever filling anything in specifically,” he said.

 

Brown apologised during the committee session for his role in what, according to the report and industry sources, was a litany of failure.

 

Accounting records were not kept, to the extent that – according to one person close to the situation – the company had thousands of customers of whom it was unaware and from whom it was not collecting any money. Meanwhile, directors “consistently enriched themselves” through loans and unjustifiably high salaries, funded with customers’ prepayments.

 

Of the loans taken by the directors, the MPs’ report said, it was “unclear” how much was repaid before Avro went into administration. Accounts filed at Companies House show £381,000 was outstanding as of June 2020.

 

Like many of the 29 suppliers that have failed so far, Avro did not implement a hedging strategy to guard against the high gas prices that set in last year. It was “negligent” in managing risk, the report found.

Ultimately, bill payers were left “footing the cost of their failure”.
 

MPs declared themselves “disappointed” by an admission from the former Ofgem chief executive Demot Nolan that the regulator had been oblivious to goings-on at Avro, despite Citizens Advice voicing concerns about the company to the regulator 10 times.

 

The committee urged the government to consider giving the “negligent” regulator greater powers to bring enforcement action for unfit conduct by energy company directors. It also called on Avro’s administrators to ask the Insolvency Service to consider bringing action against former directors and to provide an update on what action could be taken to recover customers’ money.

 

Requests for comment sent to Avro email addresses for Jake Brown and Justine Brown, his mother and Avro’s former head of HR, were not returned.

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Vincent Vega said:

Absolutely damning this on Ofgem and our energy sector in general. But it’s us mugs who pick up the tab for their ineptitude.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/jul/26/how-ex-footballers-energy-gamble-ended-up-costing-bill-payers-700m-avro
 

How ex-footballer’s energy gamble ended up costing bill payers £700m

Collapse of Avro among those highlighted in MPs’ damning report blaming much of fiasco on Ofgem
 

As customers of Avro Energy forked out for their gas and electricity direct debits, they had no idea that they were only postponing the death of a badly run business whose collapse would end up costing bill payers £700m.

 

Despite having no apparent background in the complex energy industry, Avro’s founder, Jake Brown, a former non-league footballer, set up the company with a family loan in 2016. Within a few years of the company’s entry into the market, Avro had amassed half a million customers while enriching Brown and his family along the way.

 

Between 2019 and 2020, those customers – who paid for their energy in advance – funded £4.25m in “management charges” funnelled to Sentido Marketing, owned and controlled by Brown, now 28, and his father, Philip, 58, the company’s other director.

 

During the same period, Avro, based in Hinckley in Leicestershire, lent £700,000 to its owner-directors, the same father-and-son team. It also lent another £830,000 to Berkeley Swiss Ltd, a property development company whose directors and majority owners should be obvious by now: Jake and Philip Brown.

 

In September 2021, having racked up losses of £55m in seven years, Avro collapsed into administration, owing £90m to its 580,000 customers.

 

Those customers – and the bulk of their credit balances – were taken on by healthier rival Octopus Energy. But the cost of Avro’s failure, which will be borne ultimately by every bill payer in the country, has been estimated by the energy regulator Ofgem at £700m.

 

It is Ofgem that should take much of the blame for the fiasco, according to Tuesday’s report by MPs on the business and energy select committee.

 

A phalanx of companies flooded the market nearly a decade ago, responding to a deregulatory drive by the regulator to keep prices low by fostering competition for the big six suppliers such as British Gas, SSE and EDF Energy.

 

One of the new challengers was Avro, which was launched by Brown shortly after he finished an undergraduate law degree.

 

Aged just 22, neither he nor his father had ever done anything close to running a major energy supplier. Yet that proved no barrier to entry.

 

Asked at a select committee hearing last year whether he had taken any kind of test to show he was a “fit and proper” person to shoulder such responsibility, Jake Brown thought hard. “I don’t believe so … unless Ofgem did a background thing on me. I don’t remember ever filling anything in specifically,” he said.

 

Brown apologised during the committee session for his role in what, according to the report and industry sources, was a litany of failure.

 

Accounting records were not kept, to the extent that – according to one person close to the situation – the company had thousands of customers of whom it was unaware and from whom it was not collecting any money. Meanwhile, directors “consistently enriched themselves” through loans and unjustifiably high salaries, funded with customers’ prepayments.

 

Of the loans taken by the directors, the MPs’ report said, it was “unclear” how much was repaid before Avro went into administration. Accounts filed at Companies House show £381,000 was outstanding as of June 2020.

 

Like many of the 29 suppliers that have failed so far, Avro did not implement a hedging strategy to guard against the high gas prices that set in last year. It was “negligent” in managing risk, the report found.

Ultimately, bill payers were left “footing the cost of their failure”.
 

MPs declared themselves “disappointed” by an admission from the former Ofgem chief executive Demot Nolan that the regulator had been oblivious to goings-on at Avro, despite Citizens Advice voicing concerns about the company to the regulator 10 times.

 

The committee urged the government to consider giving the “negligent” regulator greater powers to bring enforcement action for unfit conduct by energy company directors. It also called on Avro’s administrators to ask the Insolvency Service to consider bringing action against former directors and to provide an update on what action could be taken to recover customers’ money.

 

Requests for comment sent to Avro email addresses for Jake Brown and Justine Brown, his mother and Avro’s former head of HR, were not returned.

[Rico1304]

1 hour ago, Vincent Vega said:

Absolutely damning this on Ofgem and our energy sector in general. But it’s us mugs who pick up the tab for their ineptitude.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/jul/26/how-ex-footballers-energy-gamble-ended-up-costing-bill-payers-700m-avro
 

How ex-footballer’s energy gamble ended up costing bill payers £700m

Collapse of Avro among those highlighted in MPs’ damning report blaming much of fiasco on Ofgem
 

As customers of Avro Energy forked out for their gas and electricity direct debits, they had no idea that they were only postponing the death of a badly run business whose collapse would end up costing bill payers £700m.

 

Despite having no apparent background in the complex energy industry, Avro’s founder, Jake Brown, a former non-league footballer, set up the company with a family loan in 2016. Within a few years of the company’s entry into the market, Avro had amassed half a million customers while enriching Brown and his family along the way.

 

Between 2019 and 2020, those customers – who paid for their energy in advance – funded £4.25m in “management charges” funnelled to Sentido Marketing, owned and controlled by Brown, now 28, and his father, Philip, 58, the company’s other director.

 

During the same period, Avro, based in Hinckley in Leicestershire, lent £700,000 to its owner-directors, the same father-and-son team. It also lent another £830,000 to Berkeley Swiss Ltd, a property development company whose directors and majority owners should be obvious by now: Jake and Philip Brown.

 

In September 2021, having racked up losses of £55m in seven years, Avro collapsed into administration, owing £90m to its 580,000 customers.

 

Those customers – and the bulk of their credit balances – were taken on by healthier rival Octopus Energy. But the cost of Avro’s failure, which will be borne ultimately by every bill payer in the country, has been estimated by the energy regulator Ofgem at £700m.

 

It is Ofgem that should take much of the blame for the fiasco, according to Tuesday’s report by MPs on the business and energy select committee.

 

A phalanx of companies flooded the market nearly a decade ago, responding to a deregulatory drive by the regulator to keep prices low by fostering competition for the big six suppliers such as British Gas, SSE and EDF Energy.

 

One of the new challengers was Avro, which was launched by Brown shortly after he finished an undergraduate law degree.

 

Aged just 22, neither he nor his father had ever done anything close to running a major energy supplier. Yet that proved no barrier to entry.

 

Asked at a select committee hearing last year whether he had taken any kind of test to show he was a “fit and proper” person to shoulder such responsibility, Jake Brown thought hard. “I don’t believe so … unless Ofgem did a background thing on me. I don’t remember ever filling anything in specifically,” he said.

 

Brown apologised during the committee session for his role in what, according to the report and industry sources, was a litany of failure.

 

Accounting records were not kept, to the extent that – according to one person close to the situation – the company had thousands of customers of whom it was unaware and from whom it was not collecting any money. Meanwhile, directors “consistently enriched themselves” through loans and unjustifiably high salaries, funded with customers’ prepayments.

 

Of the loans taken by the directors, the MPs’ report said, it was “unclear” how much was repaid before Avro went into administration. Accounts filed at Companies House show £381,000 was outstanding as of June 2020.

 

Like many of the 29 suppliers that have failed so far, Avro did not implement a hedging strategy to guard against the high gas prices that set in last year. It was “negligent” in managing risk, the report found.

Ultimately, bill payers were left “footing the cost of their failure”.
 

MPs declared themselves “disappointed” by an admission from the former Ofgem chief executive Demot Nolan that the regulator had been oblivious to goings-on at Avro, despite Citizens Advice voicing concerns about the company to the regulator 10 times.

 

The committee urged the government to consider giving the “negligent” regulator greater powers to bring enforcement action for unfit conduct by energy company directors. It also called on Avro’s administrators to ask the Insolvency Service to consider bringing action against former directors and to provide an update on what action could be taken to recover customers’ money.

 

Requests for comment sent to Avro email addresses for Jake Brown and Justine Brown, his mother and Avro’s former head of HR, were not returned.

I know Jake.  You should see his house…

 

ofgem are useless. 

[johnsusername]

BBC -

 

"European wholesale gas prices closed at €204.85 (£172.08) per megawatt hour - the third highest price on record. The all-time high was achieved on 8 March when prices closed at €210.50 (£176.76) per megawatt hour.

 

"However, this time last year the wholesale gas price in Europe was at just above €37 (£31.08) per megawatt hour."

 

"...the International Energy Agency has warned that this is the first truly global energy crisis. Europe may be at the epicentre but we're all feeling the shockwaves of Moscow's "weaponising" of energy in an acute way."

 

Which is nice. 

[Harry's Lad]

2 minutes ago, johnsusername said:

BBC -

 

"European wholesale gas prices closed at €204.85 (£172.08) per megawatt hour - the third highest price on record. The all-time high was achieved on 8 March when prices closed at €210.50 (£176.76) per megawatt hour.

 

"However, this time last year the wholesale gas price in Europe was at just above €37 (£31.08) per megawatt hour."

 

"...the International Energy Agency has warned that this is the first truly global energy crisis. Europe may be at the epicentre but we're all feeling the shockwaves of Moscow's "weaponising" of energy in an acute way."

 

Which is nice. 

It said on ITV news that we could be paying £500 per month for energy early next year.

Frightening thought for most, me included.

[Creator Supreme]

2 minutes ago, Harry's Lad said:

It said on ITV news that we could be paying £500 per month for energy early next year.

Frightening thought for most, me included.

If that's the case I'm bankrupt! Unless you're earning in excess of £50k per annum, nobody can afford that just for energy, especially if its more than 2-3 people in your household. There's 5 in ours, we've no chance!