Energy Prices

[Rico1304]

34 minutes ago, cochyn said:

Aye removing green levies makes some amount of sense: As people switch over to electric heating in the next few years there'll be more folk paying 15p per kW/h of electricity needed to heat their homes, rather than the ~5p per kW/h they're paying for gas now. Cut the tax now knowing there's a windfall on it's way.

But you can’t just cut it, it needs to be replaced in general taxation  and as I’ve said it can’t be done quickly.  

[Rico1304]

Bulb’s administrators have published a report on how what they are doing and plans for the next few months.  When they went under they owed £109m to various creditors.  The plug was pulled when their last hedge finished and as they don’t have any generation they had to go the markets.  Administrator doesn’t sound confident of selling them which doesn’t bode well for the rest of the industry.  SoLR will cost billions. 

[John102]

Tell bulb to wait till the spring. I'll have paid that that and more by then.

[Rico1304]

9 minutes ago, John102 said:

Tell bulb to wait till the spring. I'll have paid that that and more by then.

Ha. 

The government have given Teneo £1.7bn to keep them going, but have said that may not be enough. 

[johnsusername]

It cost me £62 to fill up my 1 litre VW Polo this morning. 

 

When I first started driving (2002) it would cost me £25 to fill my tank. 

[dockers_strike]

2 hours ago, johnsusername said:

It cost me £62 to fill up my 1 litre VW Polo this morning. 

 

When I first started driving (2002) it would cost me £25 to fill my tank. 

Kinell! I filled our little Twingo up a few weeks back, put the premium BP in the tank because it still only has 5% E5 and usually only fill up once every 2 or 3 months. That cost me £48 for 7 gallons.

 

Inflation 5.7% me arse.

[Anubis]

Levelling up.

 

 

[johnsusername]

45 minutes ago, Anubis said:

Levelling up.

 

 

Yeah just saw his interview. He's got Sunak on his show tonight - I hope he drags him over the coals. (No pun intended, but maybe we should use the millions of tonnes of coal reserves we have to let people warm their homes...)

[dockers_strike]

6 minutes ago, johnsusername said:

Yeah just saw his interview. He's got Sunak on his show tonight - I hope he drags him over the coals. (No pun intended, but maybe we should use the millions of tonnes of coal reserves we have to let people warm their homes...)

Just suspending VAT and green levies during this period of high prices would be a start. As much a 300 quid of annual billing is due to these and other costs although the average is around 160.

 

We pay suppliers of renewables to stop production of electricity when the grid doesnt need excess capacity. Crackers.

[johnsusername]

On 28/01/2022 at 12:37, dockers_strike said:

Kinell! I filled our little Twingo up a few weeks back, put the premium BP in the tank because it still only has 5% E5 and usually only fill up once every 2 or 3 months. That cost me £48 for 7 gallons.

 

Inflation 5.7% me arse.

We traded in our Skoda Kodiaq (a beautiful car - I was gutted!) for a Renault Kadjar(still a nice car, I'll admit). Means we've both paid off and own both our cars (the Polo 16 and the Kadjar 68 plates). 

 

I've no doubt that that spare money will now be swallowed up by energy, petrol, NI and council tax increases. 

 

We'd looked at moving abroad but our kids are in a good school. I'll be encouraging them to leave the country when they can, and I'll follow them when I retire. 

 

You wouldn't think we're one of the richest countries in the world - the place is being run into the ground. 

[dockers_strike]

4 minutes ago, johnsusername said:

We traded in our Skoda Kodiaq (a beautiful car - I was gutted!) for a Renault Kadjar(still a nice car, I'll admit). Means we've both paid off and own both our cars (the Polo 16 and the Kadjar 68 plates). 

 

I've no doubt that that spare money will now be swallowed up by energy, petrol, NI and council tax increases. 

 

We'd looked at moving abroad but our kids are in a good school. I'll be encouraging them to leave the country when they can, and I'll follow them when I retire. 

 

You wouldn't think we're one of the richest countries in the world - the place is being run into the ground. 

Yep. You work hard all your life, pay your taxes and hope for a healthy comfortable retirement then see those plans take a battering and there being virtually fuck all you can do.

 

As mentioned in other threads, the inflation rate and breaking the triple lock has massive impacts.

[TD_LFC]

 Meanwhile France are trying to make EDF pay for it and only passing a 4% increase to the public.

[Strontium]

Viz Top Tip time

 

PENSIONERS: Grow bananas in your home to offset the rise in energy prices

[Bobby Hundreds]

I wonder what the council tax pizzo will be this year. Why is less and less costing more and more. Fucking people flying themselves into space because they have that much excess cash. There's going to be riots before long. Its not even trickle down economics anymore its take a sniff of this drip economics.

[dockers_strike]

1 minute ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

I wonder what the council tax pizzo will be this year. Why is less and less costing more and more. Fucking people flying themselves into space because they have that much excess cash. There's going to be riots before long. Its not even trickle down economics anymore its take a sniff of this drip economics.

It's this blind pursuit of zero carbon that does my head in. For the avoidance of doubt, Im all in favour of being environmentally friendly, recycling (fuck knows the old girl gives me a real bollocking if I put something in the wrong recycling bin!) and cutting emissions.

 

But when other countries are pumping out 10 and 20 times the emissions we do, I dont agree with people being forced into fuel and payment poverty to meet targets of 2050 or even 2035.

 

Our house will never be suitable for these heat pump things. The ground floor is basically a fucking heat sucking concrete block that would need to be jack hammered out to install underfloor heating.

 

I'll probably be dead and buried by the time our next boiler needs replacing but how's the old girl going to find 20 grand to have one or more of those heat pump things installed? Fuck me, she feels the cold if the thermo is below 20 degrees as it is.

[Rico1304]

Removing VAT for everyone is a blunt instrument that will disproportionately benefit the better off.  You could rebate the 5% to those on benefits or below a tax thresholds which would be much fairer.  But it’s still not enough.  
 

The admin for this £200 loan will be a fucking nightmare for energy suppliers.  It could end up costing them a fortune and I wouldn’t be surprised if they’ve been forced into it.  
 

Stopping the green taxes without moving it into general taxation is stupid, will take months and will have lots of unintended consequences (or unimaginable if you know fuck all about the industry). The idea of not doing something because China and Russia aren’t is childlike. 

[Mudface]

2 hours ago, Anubis said:

Levelling up.

 

 

Christ, our bill has doubled already, it's going to be pushing £250 a month if there's a 50-odd percent rise.

[dockers_strike]

5 minutes ago, Mudface said:

Christ, our bill has doubled already, it's going to be pushing £250 a month if there's a 50-odd percent rise.

Yup. Agree.

 

Neither is a 5% VAT cut disproportionately benefiting the wealthy. If you take an average monthly bill of 250 quid, 5% VAT is approximately 12 quid. No one's telling me, 12 quid is benefitting someone earning 100 grand a year more compared to someone earning 18 grand. It's not a lot of money but 12 quid is benefiting the less wealthy enormously.

 

Thank fuck I dont see all the post!

Talks like a tory, acts like a tory, is a fucking tory.

[Bruce Spanner]

41 minutes ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

I wonder what the council tax pizzo will be this year. Why is less and less costing more and more. Fucking people flying themselves into space because they have that much excess cash. There's going to be riots before long. Its not even trickle down economics anymore its take a sniff of this drip economics.

 

True and thorougly depressing story time.

 

Jeff Bezos' new yacht is so big that when it is launched a port in Rotterdam will have to remove part of a cultural landmark that they expressly siad they never would so his newest yacht pan pass through it from the builders dock.

 

This will cost millions and disrupt the port for some time.

 

 

Also...

 

'It’s not the first headache caused by Y721’s tall masts. The enormity of the yacht’s sails will make it unsafe to land a helicopter onboard, so Bezos has commissioned a support yacht equipped with a helipad to trail alongside.' 

 

Yes, he has a yacht for his fucking yacht so he can land a helicopter on it.

[Rico1304]

7 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

Yup. Agree.

 

Neither is a 5% VAT cut disproportionately benefiting the wealthy. If you take an average monthly bill of 250 quid, 5% VAT is approximately 12 quid. No one's telling me, 12 quid is benefitting someone earning 100 grand a year more compared to someone earning 18 grand. It's not a lot of money but 12 quid is benefiting the less wealthy enormously.

 

Thank fuck I dont see all the post!

Talks like a tory, acts like a tory, is a fucking tory.

Jesus Christ.  It’s not as if rich people have bigger houses, even multiple houses and therefore consume more fucking energy and pay more VAT.  
 

Thank god he didn’t try and counter the rest or his brain would have exploded.  
 

As for the Tory comment as your financial adviser next time he pops round. 

[dockers_strike]

6 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

 

True and thorougly depressing story time.

 

Jeff Bezos' new yacht is so big that when it is launched a port in Rotterdam will have to remove part of a cultural landmark that they expressly siad they never would so his newest yacht pan pass through it from the builders dock.

 

This will cost millions and disrupt the port for some time.

 

 

Also...

 

'It’s not the first headache caused by Y721’s tall masts. The enormity of the yacht’s sails will make it unsafe to land a helicopter onboard, so Bezos has commissioned a support yacht equipped with a helipad to trail alongside.' 

 

Yes, he has a yacht for his fucking yacht so he can land a helicopter on it.

Yeah, never mind making bezos boat further downstream or building, moving it downstream then put the top on, let's pull down a fantastic looking historic bridge instead so the latest bit of willy waving can go on it's merry way!

[Strontium]

13 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

Yeah, never mind making bezos boat further downstream or building, moving it downstream then put the top on, let's pull down a fantastic looking historic bridge instead so the latest bit of willy waving can go on it's merry way!

 

That was an option, but Rotterdam rejected it, because they wanted all the work.

[dockers_strike]

But I talk shite and dont know what Im talking about. Apparently.

They've cost £11billion to install – so far – and are supposed to help us save money on our energy bills. 

But the vastly expensive roll-out of smart energy meters is being described as a 'waste of money' – because the equipment will become obsolete. 

Smart meters currently rely on outgoing 2G and 3G mobile signals to operate. But mobile operators plan to pull the plug on them. 

When they are turned off, the meters will become 'dumb' and be no better than the traditional devices they replaced. 

Smart meters cannot handle 4G or 5G communication technology. 

The only remedy will be the installation of new smart meters or replacing a part of existing ones – at huge extra cost. 

Some areas in Scotland and northern England run on long-range radio communication rather than using mobile network signals and might not be affected by the change. 

More than £11billion has already been spent putting smart meters into 24million homes – a cost paid for by all energy users through higher bills. 

And the spending, against a backdrop of soaring energy costs, has not finished as a sixth of homes have yet to adopt smart meters. 

It means customers will have to pay another £2billion for smart meters that will not work beyond 2033.

Alex Henney is a former Government adviser who worked with Secretary of State for Energy, Cecil Parkinson, in the late 1980s on energy privatisation. 

He says: 'What is being provided is obsolete equipment at a ludicrously high cost. This troubled roll-out of smart meters is nothing but a total waste of taxpayers' money. 

'The Government does not seem to have given any thought about forcing smart meters on to us without realising they will become obsolete when the mobile signals change.' 

He adds: 'What makes matters worse is that smart meters hit the poorest hardest – as this project is paid for with higher energy bills at a time when energy costs are soaring. These meters create chaos, confusion and cost.' 

Nick Hunn, technology expert at WiFore Wireless Consulting, agrees that the roll-out is 'a fiasco'. 

'Many billions of pounds more will now have to be spent replacing smart meters once they become obsolete in about a decade,' he says. 

When 2G and 3G is switched off, a communications hub, which is a component typically near the top of a smart meter, will need to be replaced. 

The cost of sending someone out and messing around with the existing equipment means that it is probably going to be cheaper simply replacing the entire smart meter,' adds Hunn.

John Okas, chief commercial officer for consultancy Real Wireless, shares this view that technicians will need to visit households to replace defunct smart meters. 

'Tinkering is not going to be an option once the old 2G and 3G signals are turned off and we switch over to 4G and 5G for our communication needs,' he says. 

'Remote software updates will not work and you will need someone to visit to provide a replacement.' 

 

Mobile network operators such as Vodafone, EE, O2 and Three signed up to phase out 2G and 3G technology by 2033 in a Government-backed 'sunsetting' initiative agreed last December. 

They will be replaced by 5G, which was introduced in 2019 and offers faster internet streaming. 

The Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (BEIS) says it is already working on a 'connectivity solution'. 

It confirmed there is a 'communications hub', which is usually found with the meter, and points out that in theory this component can be replaced without changing the whole meter. 

A BEIS spokesperson says: 'Smart meter technology is designed to accommodate the evolution of communication services over time, meaning people's original smart meters can remain connected.' 

Smart meters cost about £400 per household, including installation. Although there is no upfront cost, they are paid for through increased energy bills – on top of gas and electricity charges, which are rising by up to 50 per cent this year.

Energy firms started to install smart meters 11 years ago. Once in place they save firms money because they no longer have to send someone out to take meter readings. 

Yet the roll-out has not been without controversy. Many of the first meters installed became 'dumb' if households switched energy supplier, which meant that meter readings were required once again. 

Some energy customers also felt bullied into accepting the meters because of threatening letters that indicated they might face heftier bills if they did not switch. 

More than £224million has also been spent on marketing to encourage people to accept a smart meter in their home. 

Some people who live in areas that suffer from poor mobile phone reception – rural locations, high-rise apartments, older houses with thick walls – can struggle with the radio wave signal getting through to the smart meters. 

The body tasked with the roll-out – Smart Energy GB – claims that smart meters can save homes £100 a year by prompting people to change their energy use habits. The meters alone will not save customers any money. 

Smart Energy GB says: 'Smart meters work alongside a communications hub that connects meters to a secure network using a variety of technologies, such as 2G and 3G. 

'As with any technology, the network will continue to evolve over time to accommodate changes and provide updates. 

Just as there is no upfront charge to the customer for the installation of a smart metering system or replacing a gas or electricity meter when it reaches the end of its operational life, customers will not be additionally charged for a new communications hub.'

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-10405685/ALL-smart-meters-need-replaced.html?ico=mol_desktop_moneybills&molReferrerUrl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%2Fmoney%2Fbills%2Farticle-10469417%2FMy-energy-bills-double-fix-ends-price-cap-jumps.html

[Rico1304]

51 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

But I talk shite and dont know what Im talking about. Apparently.

They've cost £11billion to install – so far – and are supposed to help us save money on our energy bills. 

But the vastly expensive roll-out of smart energy meters is being described as a 'waste of money' – because the equipment will become obsolete. 

Smart meters currently rely on outgoing 2G and 3G mobile signals to operate. But mobile operators plan to pull the plug on them. 

When they are turned off, the meters will become 'dumb' and be no better than the traditional devices they replaced. 

Smart meters cannot handle 4G or 5G communication technology. 

The only remedy will be the installation of new smart meters or replacing a part of existing ones – at huge extra cost. 

Some areas in Scotland and northern England run on long-range radio communication rather than using mobile network signals and might not be affected by the change. 

More than £11billion has already been spent putting smart meters into 24million homes – a cost paid for by all energy users through higher bills. 

And the spending, against a backdrop of soaring energy costs, has not finished as a sixth of homes have yet to adopt smart meters. 

It means customers will have to pay another £2billion for smart meters that will not work beyond 2033.

Alex Henney is a former Government adviser who worked with Secretary of State for Energy, Cecil Parkinson, in the late 1980s on energy privatisation. 

He says: 'What is being provided is obsolete equipment at a ludicrously high cost. This troubled roll-out of smart meters is nothing but a total waste of taxpayers' money. 

'The Government does not seem to have given any thought about forcing smart meters on to us without realising they will become obsolete when the mobile signals change.' 

He adds: 'What makes matters worse is that smart meters hit the poorest hardest – as this project is paid for with higher energy bills at a time when energy costs are soaring. These meters create chaos, confusion and cost.' 

Nick Hunn, technology expert at WiFore Wireless Consulting, agrees that the roll-out is 'a fiasco'. 

'Many billions of pounds more will now have to be spent replacing smart meters once they become obsolete in about a decade,' he says. 

When 2G and 3G is switched off, a communications hub, which is a component typically near the top of a smart meter, will need to be replaced. 

The cost of sending someone out and messing around with the existing equipment means that it is probably going to be cheaper simply replacing the entire smart meter,' adds Hunn.

John Okas, chief commercial officer for consultancy Real Wireless, shares this view that technicians will need to visit households to replace defunct smart meters. 

'Tinkering is not going to be an option once the old 2G and 3G signals are turned off and we switch over to 4G and 5G for our communication needs,' he says. 

'Remote software updates will not work and you will need someone to visit to provide a replacement.' 

 

Mobile network operators such as Vodafone, EE, O2 and Three signed up to phase out 2G and 3G technology by 2033 in a Government-backed 'sunsetting' initiative agreed last December. 

They will be replaced by 5G, which was introduced in 2019 and offers faster internet streaming. 

The Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (BEIS) says it is already working on a 'connectivity solution'. 

It confirmed there is a 'communications hub', which is usually found with the meter, and points out that in theory this component can be replaced without changing the whole meter. 

A BEIS spokesperson says: 'Smart meter technology is designed to accommodate the evolution of communication services over time, meaning people's original smart meters can remain connected.' 

Smart meters cost about £400 per household, including installation. Although there is no upfront cost, they are paid for through increased energy bills – on top of gas and electricity charges, which are rising by up to 50 per cent this year.

Energy firms started to install smart meters 11 years ago. Once in place they save firms money because they no longer have to send someone out to take meter readings. 

Yet the roll-out has not been without controversy. Many of the first meters installed became 'dumb' if households switched energy supplier, which meant that meter readings were required once again. 

Some energy customers also felt bullied into accepting the meters because of threatening letters that indicated they might face heftier bills if they did not switch. 

More than £224million has also been spent on marketing to encourage people to accept a smart meter in their home. 

Some people who live in areas that suffer from poor mobile phone reception – rural locations, high-rise apartments, older houses with thick walls – can struggle with the radio wave signal getting through to the smart meters. 

The body tasked with the roll-out – Smart Energy GB – claims that smart meters can save homes £100 a year by prompting people to change their energy use habits. The meters alone will not save customers any money. 

Smart Energy GB says: 'Smart meters work alongside a communications hub that connects meters to a secure network using a variety of technologies, such as 2G and 3G. 

'As with any technology, the network will continue to evolve over time to accommodate changes and provide updates. 

Just as there is no upfront charge to the customer for the installation of a smart metering system or replacing a gas or electricity meter when it reaches the end of its operational life, customers will not be additionally charged for a new communications hub.'

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-10405685/ALL-smart-meters-need-replaced.html?ico=mol_desktop_moneybills&molReferrerUrl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%2Fmoney%2Fbills%2Farticle-10469417%2FMy-energy-bills-double-fix-ends-price-cap-jumps.html

Thank fuck you’ve finally admitted it.  Taken a while and you got there in the end.  
 

It is heartwarming that you’ve spent a few hours googling for negative stories after you made a very basic mistake in your VAT claims. 
 

The S1 assets the article talks about will be generally about 18 years old in 2033. All paid for as they were financed over 10 years.   Stringers is working on the solution for any left on the wall.  
 

The article does point out you don’t pay upfront for your install. Which is nice.  Some people didn’t know that.  

[Strontium]

1 minute ago, Rico1304 said:

The S1 assets the article talks about will be generally about 18 years old in 2033. All paid for as they were financed over 10 years.   Stringers is working on the solution for any left on the wall.

 

Is that because Stringers knows what it's like to be 18 years old in '33?