Energy Prices

[dockers_strike]

17 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

That’s what he said.  Well, apart from the meter readers.  Which is a bit of a red herring because the guaranteed quality data will allow energy companies to get rid of many many more back office staff than meter readers.  

I dont think it's a red herring. Suppliers are still going to need people to deal with meter installs from pre payment to standard or the other way, energisation \ de energisation, meter exchanges, billing queries, account migration etc.

 

[Captain Howdy]

I’ve been taken over by BG after people’s energy collapsed. When can I fuck them off and pick my own choice?

[Rico1304]

4 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

I dont think it's a red herring. Suppliers are still going to need people to deal with meter installs from pre payment to standard or the other way, energisation \ de energisation, meter exchanges, billing queries, account migration etc.

 

I’m afraid it is.  The biggest outlay for energy companies is the wages of the call centres. If Mrs Miggin’s bill is wrong because the meter reader couldn’t get it, or her direct debit jumps when they do get a reading she’s going to phone up or write in.  By having regular, quality data she’ll hardly ever have to call and the back office staff can be fired.  When BG started their rollout we estimated that 75% of back office jobs would go, it’s actually turning out to be more like 80%. 
 

SMETs meters can switch between PP and credit remotely, and once they are on the wall they will be there for 20 odd years. Once the rollout finishes the need to replace meters will reduce massively. You’ll still get odd failures but numbers will be small. Plus, the way the installation is funded can mean that an energy company gets paid to put a meter on the wall and they can take a slice of that straight away.  A MAP has a lovely shiny meter it wants on the wall, the energy company installs it, the MAP funds that install and then the meter is rented by the energy supplier.  If it subsequently churns away to another supplier they become responsible for the rental.  

[Rico1304]

2 minutes ago, Captain Howdy said:

I’ve been taken over by BG after people’s energy collapsed. When can I fuck them off and pick my own choice?

Tomorrow.  But you’ll get your hat nailed on.  There are only about 4 deals on the switching sites. 

[Harry's Lad]

24 minutes ago, Captain Howdy said:

I’ve been taken over by BG after people’s energy collapsed. When can I fuck them off and pick my own choice?

Your energy supplier has gone bust

This advice applies to England  Print

You’ll still have gas and electricity if your energy supplier goes out of business. 

The gas and electricity regulator, Ofgem, will move you to a new supplier. This usually takes a few weeks.

Wait for your new supplier to contact you. They’ll explain what will happen with your account. Contact your new supplier if you don’t hear from them within 2 weeks. You can check who’s taken over your energy supply if you’re not sure who your new supplier is.

If your energy supplier goes out of business

Don’t switch tariff or supplier until your account is moved to the new supplier. You might find it harder to get any money you’re owed if you switch before this happens.

If your account is in credit

If your account is in credit your money is protected, unless you’re a small business customer. Your new supplier will tell you how you’ll be paid back.

If you’re a small business customer

If you’re a small business customer, Ofgem will try to choose a supplier that can refund some or all of your credit, but this is not guaranteed. Wait for your new supplier to contact you. They’ll tell you what will happen to your credit.

If your new supplier can’t refund your credit, contact your old supplier’s administrator. The administrator will take control of your old supplier and handle their debts. You can find their details on your old supplier’s website.

Contact the administrator to register as a creditor - this is someone who is owed money. You’ll need to prove your account with the old supplier was in credit. 

You can do this with past bills or statements. If you have an online account, it’s also a good idea to log into it to check your balance and download any bills or statements.

The administrator may be able to repay some of your credit. This can take a long time - sometimes more than a year. The amount you get depends on how much the old supplier owes to all of its creditors.

While you’re waiting to hear from your new supplier

If you have an online account, it’s a good idea to log into it, check your balance and download any bills. 

Before your new supplier contacts you, you should:

• take meter readings - it’s useful to take a photo of your meter readings too

• keep any old bills you have - these can help prove your payment history, credit balance or debt

• make a note of your account balance - you’ll find this on your most recent statement

If you pay by direct debit, don’t cancel it straight away. Wait until your new account is set up before you cancel it.

When you know who your new supplier is

Your new supplier will write to tell you when your new account has been set up. This should happen within a few weeks.

Your new tariff might be more expensive than the old one. You should contact your new supplier to make sure you’re on the best tariff for you.

You can switch if you’re not happy with your new supplier or tariff. You can do this without paying an exit fee. 

Don’t switch tariff or supplier until your account is moved to the new supplier. You might find it harder to get any money you’re owed if you switch before this happens. 

Read our advice about switching to a different supplier.

If you made a complaint to your old supplier that hasn't been resolved, you should raise it again with your new supplier.

If you get the Warm Home Discount

If you're on the priority services register

If you have a smart meter

If you have a prepayment meter

If you were in debt to your old supplier

If you were paying a debt to your old supplier you’ll still have to pay this back. 

Wait for your new supplier to contact you. If they’re taking on your debt, they’ll let you know. 

If the new supplier isn’t taking on your debt, you’ll have to pay an administrator instead - this is an organisation that takes over a company that goes bust.

If your new supplier takes on your debt

Your new supplier will usually contact you to arrange a payment plan. If you’re struggling to pay, they have to help you find a way to pay. 

You should try to negotiate a deal that works for both of you. Find out what to do if you’re struggling to pay your energy bills if you need help with this.

If you have to pay an administrator

The administrator will collect debts for your old supplier. You might get a bill from the administrator instead of your old supplier. 

If you were using a prepayment meter to pay off your debt, you might not be able to use the meter to pay the administrator. They’ll tell you how to pay.

You might be asked to pay all of your debt back at once. This is because administrators don’t have to follow the same payment rules as energy companies. 

You should still try to negotiate a payment plan with the administrator. They should consider this even if they do not agree to it. Speak to your new supplier if your debt means you’re struggling to pay your energy bills. 

If you get a large bill you didn’t expect, you should check it against your old bills and statements. If you’re not able to pay, contact the administrator that sent you the bill to discuss your options.

Get more help

If you need more help, contact the Citizens Advice consumer helpline. You can also contact the consumer helpline if you think an administrator has treated you unfairly or aggressively

[Colonel Bumcunt]

Is this another example of the 'free market' being subsidised by tax payers again? 

Lots of have-a-go heroes setting up companies based on a dream to one day default on everything they owe and be bailed out by socialism.  

 

It's ridiculous.  If you squint from a distance, it all looks like a calculated risk that's paid handsomely. That's because it is.  

 

Rico, I know you're a Tory, but fuck me this is wrong, at least agree on that.  It wouldn't be so offensive if it wasn't so obvious.  

[dandyman]

3 hours ago, stringvest said:

there is a lot of work going on right now to deploy smart meters.  The primary reason for this is not so you can check your bill every 30 minutes, but it is part of a range of measures to facilitate better management of the national electricity supply, and to remove the need to build lots of additional nuclear power stations to manage spikes in demand.  Increasingly, energy storage and management will be propagated to the individual consumer; you can already buy batteries from the likes of Tesla to use at home - charge them when electricity is cheap (overnight), then run the house from them when it's expensive.  The energy companies will be able to offer tariffs that in theory could change every 30 minutes.  People will use automation to 'buy' electricity when its cheap, and potentially, through on-site solar and wind generation, sell electricity back to the grid.  Removing spikes and managing demand is where it's at over the next 5-10 years.  

You’ve just described my current job..

[Colonel Bumcunt]

1 minute ago, dandyman said:

You’ve just described my current job..

Smells like a con, sounds like a con, looks like a con.  Householders dont want to play the markets, they want to have a stable energy supply at affordable rates. 

[dandyman]

2 minutes ago, Colonel Bumcunt said:

Smells like a con, sounds like a con, looks like a con.  Householders dont want to play the markets, they want to have a stable energy supply at affordable rates. 

Tomato, tomato.

it’s not about having to play the markets, though some may want to. But that is just like people play the stock market, not everyone does.

 

Others though, will want to charge a battery when it’s cheaper (or free from solar panels on the roof) and then use that stored energy when they’re at home. There’ll still be a need for some electric from traditional suppliers, but that will be 30-40% of what we currently use.

 

Might not be for everyone, but it’s an option 

[Colonel Bumcunt]

7 minutes ago, dandyman said:

Tomato, tomato.

it’s not about having to play the markets, though some may want to. But that is just like people play the stock market, not everyone does.

 

Others though, will want to charge a battery when it’s cheaper (or free from solar panels on the roof) and then use that stored energy when they’re at home. There’ll still be a need for some electric from traditional suppliers, but that will be 30-40% of what we currently use.

 

Might not be for everyone, but it’s an option 

And this is why it should be privatised.  You, a switched-on young bloke, shouldn't get cheaper energy than a 68 year old who doesn't understand there is a game afoot. 

When 'fuel poverty' is a government-recognised issue, why the fuck are we pretending it's an issue when apparently we can all just watch the market each day and change providers?  

Jesus Christ.  What a fucking mess. 

[Harry's Lad]

6 minutes ago, dandyman said:

Tomato, tomato.

it’s not about having to play the markets, though some may want to. But that is just like people play the stock market, not everyone does.

 

Others though, will want to charge a battery when it’s cheaper (or free from solar panels on the roof) and then use that stored energy when they’re at home. There’ll still be a need for some electric from traditional suppliers, but that will be 30-40% of what we currently use.

 

Might not be for everyone, but it’s an option 

It might be an option for those who can afford solar panels and the batteries, but not everybody can and the criteria many people have to meet for a grant towards the cost excludes them.

Pensioners for example. Many might own their own homes which makes them asset rich, so they might not qualify even if they are cash poor.

People in low paid jobs, but conveniently just over a threshold, the list goes on.

 

Whatever happens, you can bet your arse that the whole thing will mostly be a profit making exercise and less to do with low/zero carbon emissions.

[cochyn]

10 hours ago, Harry's Lad said:

My boiler is getting on a bit, it's a Worcester Combi and has been very reliable (touches wood), but due to it's age I'll have to get a new one sooner or later.

 

The cost of heat pumps is prohibitive, electric boilers will be very expensive to use, which leaves me with gas.

I read somewhere that new gas boilers will be 'hydrogen ready', but as far as I'm aware, no decision has been made as to whether or not hydrogen is going to be the replacement for natural gas.

What or where is the guidance?

 

I'm all for cutting down on carbon emissions, I think it's crucial that it happens for the sake of our children, grandchildren and all future generations, but fucking hell, what an absolute dogs arse they're making of the whole low/zero carbon thing.

 

The infrastructure necessary to achieve their ambitions before they fall foul of the time limits they've set for themselves is nowhere near ready, they haven't even scratched the surface.

 

Electric cars for example. There are very few charging points and yet this is probably going to be the main source of transport for the masses.

I read somewhere that home wallbox chargers are going to be set up so they can't be used at certain times (peak), so just how is this going to work? What if you need to go somewhere, but your battery is flat?

 

Official charge points will be unaffected by this, but where are they? and can you imagine the queue's while cars are connected to them for half an hour while they get to 80% charge?.

 

There are fears every winter that there will be power shortages, how the hell will the national grid cope with the massive extra demand?. 

 

The whole plan looks to have been drawn up on the back of a fag packet, and the clock is ticking.

 

The whole thing is an absolute clusterfuck.

Interesting one, this. The 'plan' is to start introducing Hydrogen to the gas network over time and blending it with methane (natural gas), as I understand it. That's why you see the gas board everywhere ripping up roads to make sections of the network Hydrogen ready.

 

The blurb explains how we'll get 'green' hydrogen through electrolysis of sea water using excess wind energy. The reality is the government prefers the use of 'blue' hydrogen which is extracted from.....natural gas! Purely because it's cheaper to produce at present and relies on spurious carbon storage methods to claim it's carbon neutrality.

 

It's a classic Tory ruse; like getting everyone into diesel cars a decade ago purely because it ticks the boxes they have in front of them. Making Hydrogen from methane is like melting candles to harvest the wicks. Utterly pointless. 

 

[stringvest]

3 hours ago, dockers_strike said:

Sorry but no, Smart Meters arent for that. National Grid doesnt need SMETS1 or 2 meters to monitor the demand on the grid. National Grid needs to maintain a 50 hertz target as load increases or decreases. It's actually allowed to go down to something like 49.8 hertz and Smart Meters would take too long to feed that info back to NG even on a 30 minute meter read. Incidentally businesses who use over 100,000kw have been on half hour meter reads since before 1998.

 

Smart Meters are all about pricing, switch meter tariffs at point of use, energise \ de energise meters and, also to do away with the legions of meter readers whose employment costs are a big drain on the suppliers.

 

SMETS is a fucking joke and the biggest waste of consumers money.

 

It should be noted most of Europe is getting hit with rocketing prices as reserves are low, partly thanks to Putin 'managing' gas supplies via Gazprom.

It’s about providing the tools to support modifying and incentivising behaviours.  It’s a much bigger picture than doing away with meter readers.  It’s one of the few major areas of UK infrastructure change where there is something approaching a long term vision. 

[stringvest]

2 hours ago, Rico1304 said:

I’m afraid it is.  The biggest outlay for energy companies is the wages of the call centres. If Mrs Miggin’s bill is wrong because the meter reader couldn’t get it, or her direct debit jumps when they do get a reading she’s going to phone up or write in.  By having regular, quality data she’ll hardly ever have to call and the back office staff can be fired.  When BG started their rollout we estimated that 75% of back office jobs would go, it’s actually turning out to be more like 80%. 
 

SMETs meters can switch between PP and credit remotely, and once they are on the wall they will be there for 20 odd years. Once the rollout finishes the need to replace meters will reduce massively. You’ll still get odd failures but numbers will be small. Plus, the way the installation is funded can mean that an energy company gets paid to put a meter on the wall and they can take a slice of that straight away.  A MAP has a lovely shiny meter it wants on the wall, the energy company installs it, the MAP funds that install and then the meter is rented by the energy supplier.  If it subsequently churns away to another supplier they become responsible for the rental.  

Yep.

[Rico1304]

8 hours ago, Colonel Bumcunt said:

Is this another example of the 'free market' being subsidised by tax payers again? 

Lots of have-a-go heroes setting up companies based on a dream to one day default on everything they owe and be bailed out by socialism.  

 

It's ridiculous.  If you squint from a distance, it all looks like a calculated risk that's paid handsomely. That's because it is.  

 

Rico, I know you're a Tory, but fuck me this is wrong, at least agree on that.  It wouldn't be so offensive if it wasn't so obvious.  

It’s very purely regulated. The

new smaller companies were set up to effectively be traders, which is unsustainable. Allowing the big 6 to keep their generation capacity skewed the market. The barriers to entry were also too low, too easy to set up an energy company.   
 

At the time it suited me because I worked for BG. I don’t anymore. It was always going to happen, just surprised it took so long. 

[Mudface]

Anybody know if So Energy is likely to survive?

[Rico1304]

7 minutes ago, Mudface said:

Anybody know if So Energy is likely to survive?

They are quite well hedged and don’t have massive ROC payments. They were set up

by two extraders so should be in a good position from that respect.  

[Mudface]

1 minute ago, Rico1304 said:

They are quite well hedged and don’t have massive ROC payments. They were set up

by two extraders so should be in a good position from that respect.  

Cheers- my fix with them comes to an end soon anyway so my bills are going up regardless, but they've been pretty decent to be with.

[Rico1304]

3 minutes ago, Mudface said:

Cheers- my fix with them comes to an end soon anyway so my bills are going up regardless, but they've been pretty decent to be with.

I know a bloke who works for them and he moved to Canada right at the start of lockdown.  I’m doing calls with him from Marple and he’s talking about skiing and hiking through the mountains.  Didn’t make me jealous.  Not one single bit.  

[johnsusername]

On 19/09/2021 at 19:37, Rico1304 said:

It is funny when people talk about how much they pay that they assume ‘right, I’m paying £100 a month, that’s about right’ and then have the heating on all day.  The energy company base your payment on what you tell them, or the reading you supply. If you then heat your house to tropical temps don’t be surprised when the payments go up.  
 

 

The government will create new super taxes for jumpers and coats soon, don't worry. 

[Mudface]

1 hour ago, Rico1304 said:

I know a bloke who works for them and he moved to Canada right at the start of lockdown.  I’m doing calls with him from Marple and he’s talking about skiing and hiking through the mountains.  Didn’t make me jealous.  Not one single bit.  

At least you don't have to worry about bears- well, not too much anyway. So are offering me a one year fix when this one ends, at over double the price I'm paying now, or a two year fix at about 60% more. Not great.

[Vincent Vega]

Privatisation of energy and water:

[Scooby Dudek]

I was People's energy, just been informed I am with BG. I was on a fixed rate until April next year, not sure what happens to that.

[Captain Howdy]

39 minutes ago, Scooby Dudek said:

I was People's energy, just been informed I am with BG. I was on a fixed rate until April next year, not sure what happens to that.

You don’t need me to tell you it won’t end well

[dockers_strike]

When you're migrated to a supplier of last resort, they should put you on their nearest matching, best tariff. They are under no obligation to maintain the tariff that your now gone bust supplier provided.