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Bjornebye

This chant that we are getting grief for

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Just now, AngryOfTuebrook said:

They're all OK. Obviously, like any insult, the insulted person will be well within their rights to tell you to fuck off. The personal stuff - John Terry's ma or Stevie G's baby or whatever - is unpleasant, but it doesn't target any Protected Characteristics, it doesn't affect fans who are in the same situation and it doesn't touch on anything for which people are getting assaulted or discriminated against. The same is true of bald/fat/ginger cunts. (And gammons choose to be gammons, so they're obviously fair game.)

 

Like I say, it's really not endless. There's a clear line.

 

Ok, we’re so far apart that continued debate is pointless so I’ll leave it there.

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11 minutes ago, Captain Howdy said:

Ok, we’re so far apart that continued debate is pointless so I’ll leave it there.

I'm glad you said that. It's past my bedtime.

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2 hours ago, Shitty Arse said:

Where does everyone stand on Gary Neville fucking his Ma up the shitter?

I think chants about incest are still okay.  Well, until Nat and Georgia Simpson complain about it.

 

 

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46 minutes ago, Red_or_Dead said:

I think chants about incest are still okay.  Well, until Nat and Georgia Simpson complain about it.

 

 

I found that very disturbing first time round, I would find it very upsetting if we were to be reminded of it, although she wasn't a bad looker. Wonder what she's doing now  

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5 hours ago, Shitty Arse said:

Where does everyone stand on Gary Neville fucking his Ma up the shitter?

Ridiculous chant and needs binning....

 

We all know it isn't true and that actually she does him up the shitter with a massive strap on.

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I always found the 'we should be better than that'argumemt a bit flawed tbh.

Like every other club in the country we have a mixture of fans so expecting all our fans to turn the other cheek when that rabble are singing about the sun is slightly fanciful.

Some fans are occasionally going to sing songs which arent all love and peace.

Football is about tribalism at the end of the day 

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15 hours ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

A good rule of thumb is "do people get the shit beaten out of them for this?"

People get assaulted for being gay, black, Jewish, etc.

 

As far as I'm aware, nobody gets beaten up for liking Scouse cock, for signing on or for coming from a city that's full of shit, shit and more shit. Those songs might be considered offensive or they might be considered "bantz". Unlike the racist, homophobic and anti-Semitic stuff, they're not providing  part of the context of violent bigotry.

Exactly. The idea that this stuff is about merely taking offence is fucking risible. The way people just refuse to empathise over situations like this blows my

mind. Imagine having a gay child, bi sister or trans work mate and they got hospitalised by some random cunts simply for walking down the street being themselves.

 

That shit is happening right now in this country and this city and while it’s not caused by this chant, it’s all part of the same issue. One man’s harmless chant is - no matter how far removed - on the same spectrum as another man’s justification of his hatred and assault (or worse) of others. 

 

But beyond all that, bring it back to basics: our own fans are explaining very clearly how hurtful (not offensive!!!) this is to them and asking very reasonably that it stops. What kind of cunt carries on in that context?

 

Trivialise the issue all you like with ridiculous examples of harmless nonsense or repeatedly sneering about people taking offence, but homophobia is real and really damages people’s lives. I reckon any decent person once informed would want to avoid contributing to it, no matter how oblivious they may have been previously. 
 

 

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If society in general is trying to normalise homosexuality or whatever then I don't think the chant should cause offence. Doesn't that just self fulfill the previous stereotypes - calling people prostitutes etc., is an insult but it's not discriminatory against one's sexuality.

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So I set close to the away end and in all honesty didnt hear the "rent boys" chant.

 

What I did see though where several gestures from people that where obviously meant to indicate the away fans were gay, if some do not associate the "rent boys" phrase with sexuality others most certainly do. It was mostly from guys who seemed a bit older late 50's+ one even was told to cut it out by a steward so he must have continued doing it while the game was being played and I was not turned towards him.

 

Personally I had never heared it until Abramavich era, however, I am dont disputing this from people who are a bit older and remember going in to 70's / 80's. Not that this counts for much, if it is genuinely a contentious issue for LGBT+ then people need to just let it go, imo.

 

It all seems very at odds with how, for example, the racist tossers where effectively kicked out of town and made to hide in lost luggage area of Lime Street. I find it difficult to understand how we as a community and city can be closed minded to one form of hatefulness and not another, when we are told by the group in focus that they are uncomfortable.

 

I sometimes go with my older brother he comes up from Kent - the guy was more of a dad to me than my father, he is of an age where he was in the closet until late 30's. I think I would have felt very awkward about it if he was there which very much answers the question should it be sung for me.

 

My brother is actually emigrating because the country has become so hateful in many areas, final straw was verbal abuse for walking with this husband a couple of days after his husband having a coke can thrown at his head because he is Asian.

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6 minutes ago, Red74 said:

https://www.midlandszone.co.uk/news/liverpool-fc-condemns-chelsea-rent-boys-chant/18721?page=21
 

looks like we’ve got recent history of this. Can someone direct me to the condemnation on here and elsewhere please?

 

 

Why? Even if there was none, that doesn't mean it was right, or that those who failed to condemn it can't now believe it's wrong to keep singing it.

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2 minutes ago, Babb'sBurstNad said:

Why? Even if there was none, that doesn't mean it was right, or that those who failed to condemn it can't now believe it's wrong to keep singing it.

Because of the sanctimonious bores comparing a chant no one was ever bothered about till now to real homophobia where young kids are getting their heads kicked in just for being gay.

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1 minute ago, Red74 said:

Because of the sanctimonious bores comparing a chant no one was ever bothered about till now to real homophobia where young kids are getting their heads kicked in just for being gay.

So it's only "real" homophobia if it's assault?

 

No one's comparing a homophobic chant to physical assault in terms of severity. They are, however, linking the normalisation of homophobic attitudes to a society that sees more such assaults. It's no surprise that where you find one, the other tends to follow.

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If you're singing it still out of belligerence then you are being homophobic. You are not being belligerent towards Chelsea (I haven't heard or seen any complaint from that direction throughout - no doubt they are jumping all over it on social, but nowhere meaningful), you aren't being belligerent to a censorious central body, you aren't being belligerent to the media (as coverage has been fairly low level, mainly boosting the internal message).

 

You are being belligerent towards LGBT Liverpool fans, if you're singing it still you are only singing because there are gay people offended by it. It's the only reason remaining at this point and it's pathetic.

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23 hours ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

A good rule of thumb is "do people get the shit beaten out of them for this?"

People get assaulted for being gay, black, Jewish, etc.

 

As far as I'm aware, nobody gets beaten up for liking Scouse cock, for signing on or for coming from a city that's full of shit, shit and more shit. Those songs might be considered offensive or they might be considered "bantz". Unlike the racist, homophobic and anti-Semitic stuff, they're not providing  part of the context of violent bigotry.

People get assaulted for being "ginger cunts" too, by the way. 

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7 hours ago, Paul said:

Exactly. The idea that this stuff is about merely taking offence is fucking risible. The way people just refuse to empathise over situations like this blows my

mind. Imagine having a gay child, bi sister or trans work mate and they got hospitalised by some random cunts simply for walking down the street being themselves.

 

That shit is happening right now in this country and this city and while it’s not caused by this chant, it’s all part of the same issue. One man’s harmless chant is - no matter how far removed - on the same spectrum as another man’s justification of his hatred and assault (or worse) of others. 

 

But beyond all that, bring it back to basics: our own fans are explaining very clearly how hurtful (not offensive!!!) this is to them and asking very reasonably that it stops. What kind of cunt carries on in that context?

 

Trivialise the issue all you like with ridiculous examples of harmless nonsense or repeatedly sneering about people taking offence, but homophobia is real and really damages people’s lives. I reckon any decent person once informed would want to avoid contributing to it, no matter how oblivious they may have been previously. 
 

 

That’s all absolutely fair Paul, but a significant number of people at the match are not decent people, and don’t give a fuck about others. A very small minority as a percentage of the total attending, but not an insignificant number in absolutely terms.

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Let me just state that if insulting baldies ever becomes unacceptable then that's me out of a job and probably banned from the match too. In fact, I'll have very little left to live for as it's quite probably my favourite past time.

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On 28/08/2021 at 22:49, Bjornebye said:

Ok, I didn't sing it, it was already on my radar not to sing it but my point isn't "should it be sung or not' it's why all of a sudden are we getting twatted as a fan-base with it. Anyone who went the game today will know that when the players took the knee, the chelsea end booed and the reaction was a stadium of applause. How we are all of a sudden getting marked as a fanbase that is homophobic or whatever is a fucking joke 

I'm trying to remember which fanbase it is you regularly mark out as being whatever. Its.....no its gone, thought I had it there.

 

 

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