Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Bjornebye

This chant that we are getting grief for

Recommended Posts

I never sang it because, to be honest, it's all a bit "thick" and always was (up there with John Terry's Ma & He'll Hit you with a Pound Carragher in the songbook artistry stakes. Not quite the Torres bounce.). But I severely question this narrative that 'one or two ole fellas' remember it being sung in those heady olden days of the .. late 1980s/1990s .. which next to no one else can remember, and which was never mentioned in that distant epoch of the ... 2000s ... when the song was popularised. Regardless, the discussion is hardly about the song, more about the debate of whether it had homophobic intent, which is a discussion worth having. I wouldn't compare it with the race-driven songbooks of old .. because they clearly were racist in intent, origin & design ("Honest, when I threw a banana at John Barnes it was merely a critique on the over-abundance of exotic fruit") .. this song always seemed to lean more on the mercenary aspect than any disdainful homophobic slur.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, s(k)aturation said:

 

Mate, that's cool and your choice. 

I just reckon any kind of "whataboutery" on this is unhelpful, and a Pyhhric win.

 

 

What is my choice? Have you read anything I've said ? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Alex_K said:

I never sang it because, to be honest, it's all a bit "thick" and always was (up there with John Terry's Ma & He'll Hit you with a Pound Carragher in the songbook artistry stakes. Not quite the Torres bounce.). But I severely question this narrative that 'one or two ole fellas' remember it being sung in those heady olden days of the .. late 1980s/1990s .. which next to no one else can remember, and which was never mentioned in that distant epoch of the ... 2000s ... when the song was popularised. Regardless, the discussion is hardly about the song, more about the debate of whether it had homophobic intent, which is a discussion worth having. I wouldn't compare it with the race-driven songbooks of old .. because they clearly were racist in intent, origin & design ("Honest, when I threw a banana at John Barnes it was merely a critique on the over-abundance of exotic fruit") .. this song always seemed to lean more on the mercenary aspect than any disdainful homophobic slur.

Arguably the best post on this forum this year. 

 

I'll take the TLW Oscar as the thread creator.  Thanks,  cheers , yeah see you later, thanks, hey x 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

What is my choice? Have you read anything I've said ? 

 

Yes, I read what you said.

You started the thread.

You were saying stuff (or at least I inferred you were) like other club fans do shit like ours and don't get the shit we do for what we do.

And we're singled out for special criticism.

 

And that's fine.

 

But I think it comes across as "whataboutery"... when some of our fans are doing something now that is causing unnecessary social offence and trouble... regardless of other outside actions or opinions.

 

Perhaps your points outweigh mine, if you like.

 

That's cool.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The term 'rent boy' is unequivocally to do with being 'gay'. The Chelsea and Kensington area of London is intrinsically linked with the term and it is barb that we have aimed at Chelsea fans for that reason - that is the context behind the chant and always has been - it has fuck all to do with mercenary players.

 

It also now of course needs to stop.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I personally never sang it, but I did think when I heard it that the intent was a comment about the mercenary nature of their players (and their fans, to be honest) rather than anything homophobic.

 

But if it is going to be offensive to anyone, then why sing it? I don't understand why anyone would say "yeah, but that's not what I meant by it, so if it offends you, who cares?" It's a very self-centred thing to say.

 

Now that we know it bothers a group of fans, for nothing to do with them being mercenary, then we should stop singing it. Just common courtesy.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted some of this on Twitter yesterday and addressed it in the podcast last night, which Dave will be putting out imminently. Apologies for being repetitive but it’s worth putting here, I hope. 
 

It was deliberate yesterday; belligerent almost. Most Reds are being totally honest in saying there’s no homophobic intent, but they’re missing the fucking point. It’s a slap in the face to our LGBT+ fans. It’s hurtful to some of them. So knowing that, why continue? 
 

When they’re literally saying, “Please don’t”, why the fuck are some continuing? For fuck’s sake!!! We’ve all got LGBT+ family & friends. Why the fuck would we knowingly hurt them? It’s just fucking wrong, regardless of your intentions.

 

Blows my mind how people put shit like this in a mental box marked, “political

correctness” and then react to being told what to say accordingly when it’s got fuck all to do with being politically correct and everything to do with listening to how these words make other people feel.
 

Show some fucking empathy. Imagine how it feels to be bombarded with words, ideas and attitudes on a daily basis that make you feel unaccepted, rejected and worse. Just because of how you love. 
 

I felt angry and ashamed yesterday. It was kind of understandable before Kops Out and Klopp made their point, but there’s no excuse now. It was a “fuck you” to Klopp, Kops Out and all our LGBT+ fans yesterday and that’s a fucking disgrace. 

  • Upvote 12

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, rb14 said:

I've said it elsewhere but it's maybe worth repeating, my first bf was a rent boy. He made very good money indeed. He used the term as did I. Insulting? Hardly. He would, as many did and do, quite happily take money for sex with a woman. He was however, believe me, very gay. In fact his brother was paid by women for having sex. He too was called himself a rent boy. 

 

I hear various gay organisations saying it's a homophobic term but I truly fail to see the irrational fear of homosexuality anywhere in the term "rent boy". Like others above in the thread, I've always thought it was to do with mercenary players. 

I agree with your reading of the term Rog but (deep breath) I think you’re missing the point. The intent is not the issue; the effect is. Many LGBT+ people are hurt by shit like this; just because you’re not (which is what I inferred from your post, but apologies if I’m wrong) doesn’t make it ok. 
 

Speaking more broadly though, regardless of just how homophobic this chant is or isn’t, I think it’s good that it has generated some actual debate and thought about the issue because I hear very little about the unacceptability of homophobia as opposed to other forms of discrimination. 
 

Apologies for the whole “straight bloke tells gay bloke about homophobia” dimension to this, Rog. You know I respect your perspective. However, as (to my knowledge) our only openly gay member, your voice carries weight on this issue; that shouldn’t mean it goes unchallenged though, should it?

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When the Mancs et all stop chanting about scousers and stereotypical opinions then perhaps the media can jump all over us and say we’re terrible people for chanting this then I’ll listen. Until then they can all fuck off with there fake objections and morality.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The belligerence comes from the same place as those who continue to boo players who kneel. They've told you why they kneel, you don't get to then make up the reason why they kneel and then pretend that's what you're actually booing.

 

If collectively the likes of Kop Outs and the club, backed by the manager, have said don't be bellends sing something else that should be the end of the matter.

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Pete said:

When the Mancs et all stop chanting about scousers and stereotypical opinions then perhaps the media can jump all over us and say we’re terrible people for chanting this then I’ll listen. Until then they can all fuck off with there fake objections and morality.  

If we get our house in order maybe we'll be able to make a stronger case for that to happen.

 

Otherwise we'll be stuck in a whataboutery cluster fuck where everyone complains about songs aimed at them but will happily sing songs aimed at others.

 

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, an tha said:

The term 'rent boy' is unequivocally to do with being 'gay'. The Chelsea and Kensington area of London is intrinsically linked with the term and it is barb that we have aimed at Chelsea fans for that reason - that is the context behind the chant and always has been - it has fuck all to do with mercenary players.

 

It also now of course needs to stop.


Totally agree.

 

And of course it wont stop, just read the ‘whataboutery from some in this thread. 
 

Sadly I reckon it’ll stop only after the club gets some sort of punishment for it. Or, if the club acts first, people start getting banned for it.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Loads of media noise about 43000 Liverpool supporters loudly applauding the players taking the knee in support of stamping out racism while the Chelsea end booed. 
 

Oh hang on, no there isn’t. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, Pete said:

When the Mancs et all stop chanting about scousers and stereotypical opinions then perhaps the media can jump all over us and say we’re terrible people for chanting this then I’ll listen. Until then they can all fuck off with there fake objections and morality.  

We aren't being asked to stop singing it to appease the media. We are being asked to stop singing it because it is hurtful to some of our fellow fans. 

 

As for the media and some faux-concerned journalists. Fuck them. 

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Loads of media noise about 43000 Liverpool supporters loudly applauding the players taking the knee in support of stamping out racism while the Chelsea end booed. 
 

Oh hang on, no there isn’t. 

Fuck the media, let's do it for our own supporters and when it stops we can point the finger and say we did our part now you go and demand the same of every other club.

  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Loads of media noise about 43000 Liverpool supporters loudly applauding the players taking the knee in support of stamping out racism while the Chelsea end booed. 
 

Oh hang on, no there isn’t. 

Whataboutery.

 

"That shit thing over there is still going on so we'll keep doing our shit thing too."

 

I'm glad the club is taking a stand and being proactive in trying to stop a chant that is hurtful to a part of our community. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't speak for the origins of the 'rentboy' chant, but a rentboy is a slang term for a male prostitute and its use as a derogatory term aimed at Chelsea fans predates Abramovich's arrival by some time and has fuck all to do with Chelsea's habit of buying and loaning out players by the dozen. It was originally intended to be a homophobic slur and was seen as fair game by anyone who grew up pre-millenium when other other homophobic chants and gestures were doing the rounds in football grounds, including Fowler spreading his cheeks for Le Saux, and the chants aimed at Brighton fans by others including ours.

 

Obviously, the chant isn't fair game anymore for anyone who knows what a rentboy is and isn't interested in offending gay people, and I'm fine with that and happy that Klopp has personally addressed this. What I'm somewhat confused by is, well, two things: why has this chant suddenly become one that the media, Sky in particular, have taken umbrage with, when it's been sung by fans of all stripes right up till they pulled us for it last week; and why are the same media content to ignore what, to my mind are grossly more offensive chants about Hillsborough, Munich, and opposition fans getting murdered abroad, never mind Chelsea fans themselves mimicking the sound of a gas chamber and hissing whenever they play Spurs.

 

I think there is a bit of selective offense being taken by the media, although, as others have said, that doesn't give us licence to carry on as before whilst pointing fingers and saying 'well, look at them, they're doing it too'.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Paul and (and others) you've every right to make your case but come on love, you and I both know you're hardly a "straight bloke". It's about time you came clean and told everyone the truth and no way will I be offended. In fact I'm pretty good at not being offended. You say "Many LGBT+ people are hurt by shit like this" and according to KopOut and others that's true. I know plenty of people who aren't. I certainly wasn't consulted on the matter. I still struggle to understand where the irrational fear of homosexuality comes into this. I spend most of my time reading the output of most lobby groups, including Stonewall, and wondering where on earth they get their perspectives. 

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Jack the Sipper said:

why has this chant suddenly become one that the media, Sky in particular, have taken umbrage with, when it's been sung by fans of all stripes right up till they pulled us for it last week;

 

It's come up as an issue sporadically over the years, Kick It Out released a statement when we were singing it in 2019, West Ham fans have been pulled up on it. It was brought up in a Stonewall report way back in 2009, lots of other instances.

 

 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, rb14 said:

@Paul and (and others) you've every right to make your case but come on love, you and I both know you're hardly a "straight bloke". It's about time you came clean and told everyone the truth and no way will I be offended. In fact I'm pretty good at not being offended. You say "Many LGBT+ people are hurt by shit like this" and according to KopOut and others that's true. I know plenty of people who aren't. I certainly wasn't consulted on the matter. I still struggle to understand where the irrational fear of homosexuality comes into this. I spend most of my time reading the output of most lobby groups, including Stonewall, and wondering where on earth they get their perspectives. 

I suppose the likes of Stonewall (or any group speaking collectively for any demographic) have to cater for the entire spectrum so while many will be able to laugh it off or have a high tolerance there'll be others who don't. It's easier to take a hard-line stance and say its not acceptable full stop even if you risk generalising the views of everyone.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't see the problem with it, it's Football, not under 12 girls flower arranging & the song isn't really homophobic. If we can't have a pop at utter cunts like Chelsea, what's the point? Part of the reason I've stopped going to be honest, this fucking circus around everything. I've stood in a stadium with 50,000 mancs singing about Hillsborough & didn't complain to anyone or see any managers giving interviews about it. Fuck them is my attitude.

 

Having said that, it seems to be causing more upset amongst Liverpool supporters now than these rent boy shagging cunts so probably time to knock it on the head.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×