How much should players be allowed to earn?

[Ron B]

13 hours ago, Carvalho Diablo said:

I've already given you a straight answer earlier in this thread, 2% of a club's total income?

 

I mentioned the Dak Prescott parallel at Dallas. Like Messi, Prescott's broken no rules and undoubtedly, just like Barca, Dallas have acted irresponsibly, but just like Messi, Prescott was happy to accept the ludicrous pay offer, ultimately to the long term detriment of the team.

 

Is he their best player? Definitely, but his willingness to push for those obscene wages came with consequences, that they're now in FFP / salary cap purgatory.

 

And btw, I wasn't fannying around and avoiding the question, I was watching the telly.

Even with Messi gone, wages are equivalent to 95% of Barcelona’s income. 
Blaming this on “greedy” Messi is drivel. Go back to watching CBeebies. 

[Carvalho Diablo]

1 hour ago, Ron B said:

Even with Messi gone, wages are equivalent to 95% of Barcelona’s income. 
Blaming this on “greedy” Messi is drivel. Go back to watching CBeebies. 

Once again you deliberately choose to misrepresent what I've said.

 

Once again (with subtitles), Barca's financial mismanagement is not Messi's fault, his decision to push for obscene club killing wages is though and has definitely played a significant part in their current plight.

 

Curious how it looks like Messi is going to sign for PSG. I wonder why? I'm sure the cash involved in that deal has nothing to do with it...

[TD_LFC]

There's definite parallels you can draw between the impact of Messi's contract and QB's in the NFL even without a traditional wage cap in La Liga

 

While Barcelona were in the wrong and Messi is entitled to be paid what he wants there has to be a recognition of the impact of what you're asking. You cant take that money and absolve yourself from blame when, for example, Suarez becomes a CAP casualty as the most immediately saleable asset.

 

 

[Trumo]

Like most people, I think sports stars are vastly overpaid, but if I specifically refer to footballers, there are a number of issues I have with regards to what they are paid.

 

First of all, the signing-on fee. Two organisations have already agreed to do a transaction for a player, and the player has agreed to the switch, and agreed as to what their salary should be. What is the signing-on fee actually paying for?

 

Secondly, the loyalty bonus. It's not 'loyalty', it's effectively a bribe on the part of a club and/or extortion on the part of a player and their agent, for the player to remain at the club. The player has already signed a multi-year contract so cannot just up and leave, and the club cannot simply stop paying the player. If there has been no breach of contract from either side, why the mad scramble for 'loyalty'?

 

Thirdly, agent fees. Clubs do not need agents to represent them, especially as the player they are looking to sign or sell has an agent already, or at least someone to handle their affairs. Transfers in general are very cack-handed in terms of how everything is dealt with, and stupid amounts of money are thrown away.

 

I also don't buy into the view that it is a short career because even if a player only has 10 years in the game, they are still earning more in a year than most people - who will also have worked very hard and in many cases made a lot of personal sacrifices - get over their working life. Are post-career players really not going to have any sort of gainful employment?

 

 

[Ron B]

5 hours ago, Carvalho Diablo said:

Once again you deliberately choose to misrepresent what I've said.

 

Nah. The only issue is that you want to have your cake and eat it.

You want to blame Messi, but you also don’t want to be seen blaming him. 
You keep saying he could play for free, although every time you’re asked if he should play for no money you lose your nerve and backpedal. 
You call Messi greedy, but say he’s entitled to be paid whatever he can get (and unless you plan on dismantling capitalism then why shouldn’t he ask for whatever salary he thinks he can get?). 

You describe Suarez as Barcelona’s “most immediate salable asset” but far from being a “salable asset” they had to pay someone to take him. 
And of course, you want to give a big dollop of blame to Messi when even without his salary, Barcelona’s wage bill is equivalent to 95% of their income. 
To be honest, you’d be better off if I did misrepresent you because I’d struggle to make up anything that was less coherent, less accurate, and less consistent than what you’ve written. 

[Bruce Spanner]

8 minutes ago, Ron B said:

Nah. The only issue is that you want to have your cake and eat it.

You want to blame Messi, but you also don’t want to be seen blaming him. 
You keep saying he could play for free, although every time you’re asked if he should play for no money you lose your nerve and backpedal. 
You call Messi greedy, but say he’s entitled to be paid whatever he can get (and unless you plan on dismantling capitalism then why shouldn’t he ask for whatever salary he thinks he can get?). 

You describe Suarez as Barcelona’s “most immediate salable asset” but far from being a “salable asset” they had to pay someone to take him. 
And of course, you want to give a big dollop of blame to Messi when even without his salary, Barcelona’s wage bill is equivalent to 95% of their income. 
To be honest, you’d be better off if I did misrepresent you because I’d struggle to make up anything that was less coherent, less accurate, and less consistent than what you’ve written. 

 

Hi, Lionels mum, would you put in a good word for him to play for us, it'd be swell.

[TheBitch]

What were you watching @Carvalho Diablo?

[Carvalho Diablo]

42 minutes ago, TheBitch said:

What were you watching @Carvalho Diablo?

Lost.

[TD_LFC]

1 hour ago, Ron B said:

Nah. The only issue is that you want to have your cake and eat it.

You want to blame Messi, but you also don’t want to be seen blaming him. 
You keep saying he could play for free, although every time you’re asked if he should play for no money you lose your nerve and backpedal. 
You call Messi greedy, but say he’s entitled to be paid whatever he can get (and unless you plan on dismantling capitalism then why shouldn’t he ask for whatever salary he thinks he can get?). 

You describe Suarez as Barcelona’s “most immediate salable asset” but far from being a “salable asset” they had to pay someone to take him. 
And of course, you want to give a big dollop of blame to Messi when even without his salary, Barcelona’s wage bill is equivalent to 95% of their income. 
To be honest, you’d be better off if I did misrepresent you because I’d struggle to make up anything that was less coherent, less accurate, and less consistent than what you’ve written. 

It was me who called Suarez Barca's most saleable asset, and by that I mean the player who they could get off the books as easily as possible. It was less about getting a significant transfer fee (I imagine the 6 million or so they got for him barely covered his amortisation figure in his final year) and more about the first step in shedding salaries knowing they had to clear room in the short term and with a view to this summer.

 

In an ideal world they'd have preferred to get rid of a whole raft of players before Suarez but for various reasons there were no takers for the likes of Coutinho and Dembele.

[aws]

Should have kept Suarez and fucked Messi off. 

[TD_LFC]

In terms of wrecking a club the Neymar deal, or the management of said deal, has to go down as one of the worst transfers in football history.

[Carvalho Diablo]

1 hour ago, Ron B said:

Nah. The only issue is that you want to have your cake and eat it.

You want to blame Messi, but you also don’t want to be seen blaming him. 
You keep saying he could play for free, although every time you’re asked if he should play for no money you lose your nerve and backpedal. 
You call Messi greedy, but say he’s entitled to be paid whatever he can get (and unless you plan on dismantling capitalism then why shouldn’t he ask for whatever salary he thinks he can get?). 

You describe Suarez as Barcelona’s “most immediate salable asset” but far from being a “salable asset” they had to pay someone to take him. 
And of course, you want to give a big dollop of blame to Messi when even without his salary, Barcelona’s wage bill is equivalent to 95% of their income. 
To be honest, you’d be better off if I did misrepresent you because I’d struggle to make up anything that was less coherent, less accurate, and less consistent than what you’ve written. 

Again...blame, as I've said numerous times now *both sides* are to blame, to a greater or lesser degree.

 

Again, should Messi play for no money? No, I'm of the opinion that no person should ever work for nothing, but Messi has more money in the bank than he could ever spend and he could easily play football for free if he wanted to. That is a fact, no idea why it upsets you so.

 

Also, if your little Lionel chooses to sign for PSG, that rather tells its own story don't you think?

 

I didn't describe Suarez as Barcelona's most saleable asset, that was  TD_LFC, although I agree with every word of the lad's post. But don't let facts get in the way of your tedious argument.

 

 

[VladimirIlyich]

It has to be a percentage of the club's earnings/income but that income needs to be a level playing field.

[Ron B]

3 hours ago, Carvalho Diablo said:

Again...blame, as I've said numerous times now *both sides* are to blame, to a greater or lesser degree.

 

Again, should Messi play for no money? No, I'm of the opinion that no person should ever work for nothing, but Messi has more money in the bank than he could ever spend and he could easily play football for free if he wanted to. That is a fact, no idea why it upsets you so.

 

Also, if your little Lionel chooses to sign for PSG, that rather tells its own story don't you think?

 

I didn't describe Suarez as Barcelona's most saleable asset, that was  TD_LFC, although I agree with every word of the lad's post. But don't let facts get in the way of your tedious argument.

 

 

He’s not “My little Lionel”. Please, this sort of stuff is deeply pathetic - much as it’s pathetic how you’ve repeatedly said he ‘could’ play for nothing, but whenever you’re challenged on it you fall back and say that you don’t think he should play for nothing. Guess what, Sugar Tits? If you don’t think he should play for nothing, don’t repeatedly say that he could play for nothing. 

 

Next: Why shouldn’t Lionel Messi sign for PSG? Again, you’re welcome to provide a list of clubs who you would find it acceptable for him to play for. It’ll be enlightening to hear your suggestions. 

Thirdly, and as you’re apparently a fan of facts:

• Between 2017 and 2020, Barcelona’s wage bill increased by almost 50%. That’s not on Messi. 
• Barcelona have pissed insane sums up the wall on bad signings in recent years - €160m on Coutinho (thanks lads), €150m on Dembele, €120m on Griezmann. That’s not on Messi. 
• Even if Messi stays and plays for free, the club in will be spending 95% of their income on salaries next season. It’s not a sustainable figure. That’s not on Messi. 
 

And finally: One of the first wrong things you said was this - “Messi has priced himself out of playing the sport he supposedly loves”. Has he?

Its estimated that Messi leaving will wipe €137million off the value of Barcelona. You either think that Messi deserves to see a decent portion of that €137million (regardless of who he plays for). Or we stay in this mindset of “Players are greedy,” “He’s earned enough, he could play for nothing if he wanted to,” “Bring back the maximum wage and tugging your forelock when a gentleman passes you in the street.” Me? I think that the money that footballers generate should go to the footballers. But maybe you think they should know their place. 

[Carvalho Diablo]

27 minutes ago, Ron B said:

He’s not “My little Lionel”. Please, this sort of stuff is deeply pathetic - much as it’s pathetic how you’ve repeatedly said he ‘could’ play for nothing, but whenever you’re challenged on it you fall back and say that you don’t think he should play for nothing. Guess what, Sugar Tits? If you don’t think he should play for nothing, don’t repeatedly say that he could play for nothing. 

 

Next: Why shouldn’t Lionel Messi sign for PSG? Again, you’re welcome to provide a list of clubs who you would find it acceptable for him to play for. It’ll be enlightening to hear your suggestions. 

Thirdly, and as you’re apparently a fan of facts:

• Between 2017 and 2020, Barcelona’s wage bill increased by almost 50%. That’s not on Messi. 
• Barcelona have pissed insane sums up the wall on bad signings in recent years - €160m on Coutinho (thanks lads), €150m on Dembele, €120m on Griezmann. That’s not on Messi. 
• Even if Messi stays and plays for free, the club in will be spending 95% of their income on salaries next season. It’s not a sustainable figure. That’s not on Messi. 
 

And finally: One of the first wrong things you said was this - “Messi has priced himself out of playing the sport he supposedly loves”. Has he?

Its estimated that Messi leaving will wipe €137million off the value of Barcelona. You either think that Messi deserves to see a decent portion of that €137million (regardless of who he plays for). Or we stay in this mindset of “Players are greedy,” “He’s earned enough, he could play for nothing if he wanted to,” “Bring back the maximum wage and tugging your forelock when a gentleman passes you in the street.” Me? I think that the money that footballers generate should go to the footballers. But maybe you think they should know their place. 

Your tedium and conflation are endless.

 

You do not seem to know the difference between "could" and "should".

 

As a local TU rep I find your last paragraph especially offensive / laughable.

 

PSG. Not Barcelona or Liverpool or Rochdale or Newell's Old Boys. I wonder why that is?

[aRdja]

2 hours ago, Ron B said:

He’s not “My little Lionel”. Please, this sort of stuff is deeply pathetic - much as it’s pathetic how you’ve repeatedly said he ‘could’ play for nothing, but whenever you’re challenged on it you fall back and say that you don’t think he should play for nothing. Guess what, Sugar Tits? If you don’t think he should play for nothing, don’t repeatedly say that he could play for nothing. 

 

Next: Why shouldn’t Lionel Messi sign for PSG? Again, you’re welcome to provide a list of clubs who you would find it acceptable for him to play for. It’ll be enlightening to hear your suggestions. 

Thirdly, and as you’re apparently a fan of facts:

• Between 2017 and 2020, Barcelona’s wage bill increased by almost 50%. That’s not on Messi. 
• Barcelona have pissed insane sums up the wall on bad signings in recent years - €160m on Coutinho (thanks lads), €150m on Dembele, €120m on Griezmann. That’s not on Messi. 
• Even if Messi stays and plays for free, the club in will be spending 95% of their income on salaries next season. It’s not a sustainable figure. That’s not on Messi. 
 

And finally: One of the first wrong things you said was this - “Messi has priced himself out of playing the sport he supposedly loves”. Has he?

Its estimated that Messi leaving will wipe €137million off the value of Barcelona. You either think that Messi deserves to see a decent portion of that €137million (regardless of who he plays for). Or we stay in this mindset of “Players are greedy,” “He’s earned enough, he could play for nothing if he wanted to,” “Bring back the maximum wage and tugging your forelock when a gentleman passes you in the street.” Me? I think that the money that footballers generate should go to the footballers. But maybe you think they should know their place. 

It is a bit sad that Messi is going to PSG, no? There’s nothing remotely interesting about this move. He’s moving to a team far too strong for Ligue 1, a league one really cares about. PSG aren’t even the most storied club in France. Obviously he can do whatever he wants, but it’s just a bit uninspiring for me. A move to a sleeping giant like AC Milan for example would be pretty cool. 

[VladimirIlyich]

If Messi moves to PSG it pretty much negates anything that he or his advisers say about him moving for anything other than money.