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12 minutes ago, lifetime fan said:

He then doubled down on MNF and slated Souness (without naming him) who was the only one who spoke any sense on Sunday. 

 

I don't know about that. The argument Souness made was essentially that the Glazers own United and there's nothing the fans can do about it and they are only complaining now because they aren't winning anymore. 

 

If we've seen anything over the last few weeks its that football fans can still make a difference. 

 

I understand the triablism and dislike of United/Manchester, but if our owners were taking billions out of the club, would the majority of Liverpool fans not want to get rid of them and say that that money should be spent on the club? 

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1 minute ago, MegadriveMan said:

 

I don't know about that. The argument Souness made was essentially that the Glazers own United and there's nothing the fans can do about it and they are only complaining now because they aren't winning anymore. 

 

If we've seen anything over the last few weeks its that football fans can still make a difference. 

 

I understand the triablism and dislike of United/Manchester, but if our owners were taking billions out of the club, would the majority of Liverpool fans not want to get rid of them and say that that money should be spent on the club? 

 

To be fair, Souness is right. The green and gold scarves are far, far, far more prevalent when the mancs aren't doing as well.

 

Owners of ours did take millions out the club and we hounded them out.

 

I don't think anybody is saying they don't have the right to protest, the way they went about it was a disgrace.

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12 minutes ago, MegadriveMan said:

 

I don't know about that. The argument Souness made was essentially that the Glazers own United and there's nothing the fans can do about it and they are only complaining now because they aren't winning anymore. 

 

If we've seen anything over the last few weeks its that football fans can still make a difference. 

 

I understand the triablism and dislike of United/Manchester, but if our owners were taking billions out of the club, would the majority of Liverpool fans not want to get rid of them and say that that money should be spent on the club? 


I have no problem with fans protesting about leveraged buyouts, it’s what the cunts H&G did to us. It was wrong then and it’s wrong now.


But that protest on Sunday wasn’t peaceful and wasn’t about the ESL no matter what Neville tries to claim. 
 

Maybe he wishes it was about the ESL and no one asks him why there wasn’t a single word from comrade Neville when he took his wages from the Glazers for 6 years. 

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1 minute ago, lifetime fan said:


I have no problem with fans protesting about leveraged buyouts, it’s what the cunts H&G did to us. It was wrong then and it’s wrong now.


But that protest on Sunday wasn’t peaceful and wasn’t about the ESL no matter what Neville tries to claim. 
 

Maybe he wishes it was about the ESL and no one asks him why there wasn’t a single word from comrade Neville when he took his wages from the Glazers for 6 years. 

 

I agree that some of the protestors overstepped the mark, but tends to be the case at any protest. Some people just use these sorts of things as an excuse for violence and criminal damage. 

 

No it wasn't just about the ESL, however this was the trigger for United fans. A number of them have wanted the Glazers out since the beginning and this was an ideal stick to beat them with. 

 

Neville is a fucking moron though. Silence for 15 and a half years and only now he decides to speak out against them. If he/other ex players had taken this stance from the beginning then maybe they would have been gone by now and the idea of the ESL would never have come about? 

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6 minutes ago, lifetime fan said:


I have no problem with fans protesting about leveraged buyouts, it’s what the cunts H&G did to us. It was wrong then and it’s wrong now.


But that protest on Sunday wasn’t peaceful and wasn’t about the ESL no matter what Neville tries to claim. 
 

Maybe he wishes it was about the ESL and no one asks him why there wasn’t a single word from comrade Neville when he took his wages from the Glazers for 6 years. 

The annoying thing is Neville never spoke out about the Glazers when he was playing and pocketing 100k a week from them Neither did Carragher H&G almost took us into bankruptcy he was pocketing probably 100k a week as well said fuck all, let slip last week he said thing privately to friends and family but nothing in the public domain, fucking two faced hypocritical bastards the pair off them, never had any respect for Neville anyway he's a cunt but Carragher was one us he traveled to away games after retirement always lauded the club after the last few weeks no respect for him either which is a bit sad really. And what is his problem with Souness all of a sudden any chance he gets he digs into him?

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28 minutes ago, Scott_M said:

 

To be fair, Souness is right. The green and gold scarves are far, far, far more prevalent when the mancs aren't doing as well.

 

Owners of ours did take millions out the club and we hounded them out.

 

I don't think anybody is saying they don't have the right to protest, the way they went about it was a disgrace.

True, but they are doing well now. If they finish second and win the Europa League this will be their best season since Ferguson left. 

 

The violence and the injuries to police/security are completely unacceptable. Forcing the game to be postponed was what they wanted though. How far would we have taken things to force Hicks and Gillett out if the banks didn't step in when they did? 

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7 minutes ago, waddy78 said:

And what is his problem with Souness all of a sudden any chance he gets he digs into him?

I think he resents Souness getting alot of positive feedback for both his punditry and his honesty.

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3 minutes ago, waddy78 said:

The annoying thing is Neville never spoke out about the Glazers when he was playing and pocketing 100k a week from them Neither did Carragher H&G almost took us into bankruptcy he was pocketing probably 100k a week as well said fuck all, let slip last week he said thing privately to friends and family but nothing in the public domain, fucking two faced hypocritical bastards the pair off them, never had any respect for Neville anyway he's a cunt but Carragher was one us he traveled to away games after retirement always lauded the club after the last few weeks no respect for him either which is a bit sad really. And what is his problem with Souness all of a sudden any chance he gets he digs into him?

 

None of the current United or Liverpool players are speaking out against their owners. It's a very difficult thing to do, to speak out against the people paying your wages.

 

I don't think Carragher and Souness have a problem with each other, it's just that they have opposing views on this issue. 

 

Souness essentially said yesterday that the Glazers own the club, it's their club to do as they please, even if the fans don't like it. 

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2 minutes ago, MegadriveMan said:

 

None of the current United or Liverpool players are speaking out against their owners. It's a very difficult thing to do, to speak out against the people paying your wages.

 

I don't think Carragher and Souness have a problem with each other, it's just that they have opposing views on this issue. 

 

Souness essentially said yesterday that the Glazers own the club, it's their club to do as they please, even if the fans don't like it. 

The Carragher / Souness thing started before all this, started when Souness said Pickford knew he was going in to hurt VVD, then Carragher butted in saying something like you can't talk some of your tackles were boardering on assault  since then there's been a few digs for what seems like no reason.

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17 minutes ago, MegadriveMan said:

How far would we have taken things to force Hicks and Gillett out if the banks didn't step in when they did? 

True. We also stepped in and stopped Deutsche Bank. 
 

The difference was we were going nowhere fast (apart from down) under G&H and we were being absolutely bummed. They still invest heavily in the playing squad. They are the 2nd biggest spenders in the world since 2015, behind City. 

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5 hours ago, dave u said:

 

Any football 'reset' will start and end with United getting rid of the Glazers and being bought by China or the Saudis, and then blowing everyone other than City out of the water with their spending power.

 

Maybe thats something that all these Reds wanting to stand 'shoulder to shoulder' with these cunts should think about.

 

This isn't the start of some fan revolution utopia that will see us all end up owning our own clubs. That's never going to happen, so if the difference between United spending 1 billion or 2 billion on players is the Glazers, then call me selfish, but thank fuck for the Glazers.

 

Yeah this is the problem. 

 

I doubt many of the fans trying to force the Glazers out would object if they were taken over by a morally worse group of owners but with a better business model.

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2 minutes ago, waddy78 said:

The Carragher / Souness thing started before all this, started when Souness said Pickford knew he was going in to hurt VVD, then Carragher butted in saying something like you can't talk some of your tackles were boardering on assault  since then there's been a few digs for what seems like no reason.

 

Yeah I forgot about that. Maybe they don't get on particularly well. I know that Phil Thompson despises Souness and some other ex players don't particularly like him because of his spell as a manager and selling his story to the s*n.

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It was the Spaniard’s Rafa and the his boys who spoke out against Cancer & Aids when we were clearly going down the tubes. Local lads done well didn’t say a peep so I’m not surprised Carragher’s still the same shithouse today.

 

Sky want to carry on doing what they want, the mancs can seemingly do whatever they want while we all play along pretending there’s some kind of fan power uprising with Tory(!) backing ready to give us our game back.

 

Neville, Carragher, the mancs and Sky you self serving agenda driven cunts can get to fuck.

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5 minutes ago, Halcyon Days said:

It was the Spaniard’s Rafa and the his boys who spoke out against Cancer & Aids when we were clearly going down the tubes. Local lads done well didn’t say a peep so I’m not surprised Carragher’s still the same shithouse today.

 

Sky want to carry on doing what they want, the mancs can seemingly do whatever they want while we all play along pretending there’s some kind of fan power uprising with Tory(!) backing ready to give us our game back.

 

Neville, Carragher, the mancs and Sky you self serving agenda driven cunts can get to fuck.

Pepe and Torres If I remember correctly.

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58 minutes ago, MegadriveMan said:

 

I don't know about that. The argument Souness made was essentially that the Glazers own United and there's nothing the fans can do about it and they are only complaining now because they aren't winning anymore. 

 

If we've seen anything over the last few weeks its that football fans can still make a difference. 

 

I understand the triablism and dislike of United/Manchester, but if our owners were taking billions out of the club, would the majority of Liverpool fans not want to get rid of them and say that that money should be spent on the club? 

Good points but I think if Sky and its media whores had been on board with this, the narrative wouldnt be so one sided from the media. It would have been interesting to see, if that was the case, whether carragher and or neville had the balls to resign at their employer's stance. But we'll never know.

 

As for the anti glazer stuff, it is undeniable there's a rump of fans who objected \ protested against them since the takeover. It's also clear the majority of their fans accepted the glazers and de facto, taking millions out of the club while they were still making headline signings and winning PL titles.

 

Like Ive said elsewhere in this thread, the landscape has changed. Despite their current position, they're still miles away from a title win with the gimp in charge. Even 'serial' winner mourinho couldnt get them close. It's 8 years and ticking. They see city as regular title winners and even us break our drought.

 

Sorry, neither carragher or the other media whores are convincing me if united were winning titles that the majority of their fans would be kicking off like they are.

 

They think some middle east or other conglomorate is going to ride to their rescue and put them back at the top of the table once they drive the glazers out.

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15 minutes ago, waddy78 said:

Pepe and Torres If I remember correctly.

Yep the only ones with the cajones to have a pop at them and ask questions while Carragher just wanted to ‘concentrate on the football’.

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50 minutes ago, MegadriveMan said:

True, but they are doing well now. If they finish second and win the Europa League this will be their best season since Ferguson left. 

 

The violence and the injuries to police/security are completely unacceptable. Forcing the game to be postponed was what they wanted though. How far would we have taken things to force Hicks and Gillett out if the banks didn't step in when they did? 

Better than Mourino's first two seasons? 

 

I think it may be semantics - but you say the ESL was a trigger, I think they saw it as an opportunity. The Glazers haven't took 'billions' it is thought to be about a billion. In the meantime they have increased revenue by a lot. As others have said - their problem is the leverage buyout not the moral character of the Glazers. 

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2 hours ago, lifetime fan said:


No one has said they wanted him to swing for anyone mate.

 

But having seen the copper and spoken to him - to then go on sky and parrot the ‘peaceful protest’ line is bullshit. 
 

And it wasn’t just one prick being violent was it, we’ve all seen it was greater than that. 
 

He then doubled down on MNF and slated Souness (without naming him) who was the only one who spoke any sense on Sunday. 

Hang on, Souness was talking utter nonsense. He effectively said that the Glazers had funded the buy out and what was the problem. He’d clearly never heard of a leveraged buy out. It was actually embarrassing how bad and clueless Souness was. 
 

As for the Carragher stuff, it’s not a hill I’m even slightly bothered to die on. Spitting on that fan turned me off him. So whatever people want to believe about him is fine by me. I’m just inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt on this one. 

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I reckon Souey could deck Spit if he said he was lazy to his face again!

 

Of all Graeme Souness’ virtues as a pundit, his most valuable is that he tackles contentious subjects just as he did Steaua Bucharest midfielders: fearlessly, and with scant regard for the consequences. The one caveat, apparently, is that his opinions on Manchester United should cleave to the consensus where possible.

For the one consistent reaction to the violent pitch invasion of Old Trafford has been scorn towards the sage of Saughton, as if his argument that fans were driven purely by frustration at their clubs’ under-performance was somehow beyond the pale.

"Lazy," Jamie Carragher said of that characterisation, while Micah Richards claimed supporters had been compelled to action by the Glazers’ attempts to "rip the life and soul out of a club that has got such history".

Souness has inhabited the game long enough not to be swayed by such idealism. During his fraught experiences managing Liverpool, Newcastle and Galatasaray, he came to understand that fans’ grievances sprang less from any high principle than from collapses in results.

And if we examine the pattern of protests over the past 16 days, it becomes evident that the most concerted rebellions, by far, have come at United and Arsenal, the two members of the Big Six who have suffered the most conspicuous recent slumps.

Souness, manifestly, has touched a nerve. To question the high-mindedness of United fans is, to judge by the backlash, an act of sacrilege tantamount to defacing Sir Alex Ferguson’s statue.

Many of them point out, not unreasonably, that they expressed a loathing of their Florida owners even in 2010, when United were the reigning champions and when David Beckham wore a green-and-gold scarf in solidarity. It is quite the leap, though, from wearing the colours of your founding fathers to inciting a near-riot in which a police officer is slashed in the face.

Yes, the trigger was the obscene affront of United’s involvement in a European Super League. But the wider background, which did not exist 11 years ago, is of the club’s decline as a title-winning force, leaving them a shadow of what they were.

If you truly believe that last Sunday’s scenes had nothing to do with their on-pitch performance, ask yourself how many demonstrations there have been at Manchester City and Liverpool in the last fortnight.

    At Anfield, a place still bathed in the afterglow of a first championship for 30 years, objections did not extend beyond a few banners pinned to the Shankly Gates. As for City, their fans needed only to watch BT Sport’s preamble to last week’s Champions League semi-final, in which Paul Dickov and Shaun Goater reminisced about the 1999 Second Division play-off final, to recognise how far they had come and that they were better off not rocking the boat.

    Success breeds compliance, while failure, more often than not, is the cue for an uprising. Let us go out on a limb here and declare that the latest United protests would never have happened if Ole Gunnar Solskjaer's team had been busy resurrecting the feats of the Ferguson era.

      From the Glazers’ takeover in 2005 to Ferguson’s departure in 2013, United won the league five times. Since then, all they have added to the cabinet is one FA Cup, one League Cup and one Europa League. That, more than the owners’ obliviousness to United’s "soul", is the main reason why the natives are restless.

      They would tolerate any number of corporate mattress partnerships, any amount of Ed Woodward’s meddling, if it meant a return to their trophy hauls of old.

      It was striking on Sunday how young the protesters were. For if you are in your 20s or 30s as a United fan, you have grown up not with an aspiration but an expectation that the club will win everything in sight.

      Gary Neville insists that these fans have other concerns, not least the shortage of investment at the Carrington training ground or the under-development of the area around Old Trafford, but these are not the types of resentments that embolden you to storm a stadium. Of far greater urgency to many fans, especially with City closing in on a third title in four years, is the fact that United are no longer the all-conquering juggernaut they remember.

      One of their protest messages was instructive: "50+1", it read, a reference to the German model that allows a club’s members to keep control by owning half the shares, plus one more, fending off any malign interference from outside.

      It is no wonder United supporters look so covetously at the Bundesliga, where a culture of stringent regulation ensures that Bayern Munich stand on the cusp of a ninth successive title. After all, this is what they used to be, the behemoth of the domestic game, for whom glory was a given.

      There is a danger, in the fall-out from the Super League, that we impute an unimpeachable moral rectitude to fans, that we applaud them for pursuing a revolution by whatever means necessary.

      Souness is that rare analyst prepared to observe that in this febrile atmosphere, there can be less noble forces bubbling beneath the surface. And one of them, quite clearly in United’s case, is status anxiety.

       

      https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2021/05/04/graeme-souness-right-man-utd-fans-anger-stems-clubs-decline/

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      Gary Neville is a part owner of a football club which has ambitions of getting to the Premier League themselves in the next five-ten years. They've already motored through the lower divisions because they're backed by a billionaire in Peter Lim. They've managed to attract players from several divisions higher who've dropped down because Salford can blow clubs out of the water with their wage offers. Of course, he's going to be against the ESL because the Premier League would be hugely devalued by the time Salford get there and he his mates won't get their big pay day. 

       

      For him to pontificate on the morality of football, knowing full well that he has a huge conflict of interest in all of this, is mind blowing. 

       

      As for Carragher, is anybody truly surprised? He said fuck all during Hicks and Gillett and left it to the overseas players to speak out. 

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      Sky conveniently spinning the whole thing as they are perilously close to be called out themselves, hence their stalwart employees towing the line.

       

      There really is no going back for football. As has been pointed out many times on our very own FSG threads, what is it your wishing for? It isnt there folks.

       

       

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      I remember Souness saying that being on Irish television changed his punditry style forever. He looked around at Giles, Brady and that Eamon Dumphy bloke saying what they wanted and loved it. He said when he was on British telly, you were encouraged to not rock the boat.

       

      Sky seemed to have changed that with Carra and Neville going out of their way to be controversial. Keane being Keane etc.

       

      I love Souness as a pundit. Him laughing at the Mancs below was brilliant. He'd fucking anhilate them and he must be about 70. He knows the game and on the whole he is bang on about the vast majority of their fans - there are a lot of decent Mancs and a proportion of their decent ones were protesting on Sunday, but the knobheads looked to me to be in the majority. Another thing, if they were where City are right now, the Sheikh would be lauded as some kind of demi god. They would forget all about their green and gold shite if they were spanking us and winning trophies because that's the way most of those twats act.

       

      One thing the way they always got their way was getting the media onside. City are following their playbook - when that idiot Micah Richards basically said City *some of the wealthiest people in the world* were forced into the super league by other clubs and nobody has taken him to task on that shite, you can see how their agenda is being built. Gary Neville talking them up as well is even more nauseating.

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      Trouble is, like it or not, we wouldnt hear anywhere near as much from us if we were spending billions and winning everything- its human nature.

       

      Football club owners are on a hiding to nothing really. Imagine who's job it is to explain to them why we were utterly desperate for them to spend £50m+ on Keita. 

       

      Being responsible for wasting your company a £50m outlay in any other business is not a great move.

       

      This is the same business where serial losers like Mourinho can get very very rich indeed by being very bad at their job and getting sacked.

       

      Fuck owning a football club unless you are filthy filthy rich. Leave your morals at the door  

       

           

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