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AngryOfTuebrook

Elections 2021

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29 minutes ago, Numero said:

Which Tony Blair are you talking about, because the Tony Blair who lead the Labour Party didn’t say what you just quoted. He did say this though… 

 

‘Labour misunderstand the difference between radical leftism, which is often in fact quite reactionary – and radical social democracy, which is all about ensuring that values are put to work in the most effective way,” he said.

 

Let me make my position clear: I wouldn’t want to win on an old-fashioned leftist platform. Even if I thought it was the route to victory, I wouldn’t take it.”

 

“Even if you did [win] it wouldn’t be right because it wouldn’t take the country forward, it would take it backwards. That’s why it’s not the right thing to do.”

 

Thats quite some way from ‘sooner lose with a left wing party and lose with a right wing party’. Only if you understand ‘radical social democracy’ to mean ‘right wing’ could you come to that conclusion. I guess if you think ‘old fashioned radical leftism’ is the only meaning of ‘left wing’ then you might be on course to thinking that way I suppose. Either way, I disagree with Blair. Radical leftism would be way better than cunty crony conservatism, so I’d much rather win on that if it was the only way. But it isn’t. 

Either way, those are some horrific quotes to come from an apparent Labour person.

 

Astonishing really.

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54 minutes ago, Numero said:

Which Tony Blair are you talking about, because the Tony Blair who lead the Labour Party didn’t say what you just quoted. He did say this though… 

 

‘Labour misunderstand the difference between radical leftism, which is often in fact quite reactionary – and radical social democracy, which is all about ensuring that values are put to work in the most effective way,” he said.

 

Let me make my position clear: I wouldn’t want to win on an old-fashioned leftist platform. Even if I thought it was the route to victory, I wouldn’t take it.”

 

“Even if you did [win] it wouldn’t be right because it wouldn’t take the country forward, it would take it backwards. That’s why it’s not the right thing to do.”

 

Thats quite some way from ‘sooner lose with a left wing party and lose with a right wing party’. Only if you understand ‘radical social democracy’ to mean ‘right wing’ could you come to that conclusion. I guess if you think ‘old fashioned radical leftism’ is the only meaning of ‘left wing’ then you might be on course to thinking that way I suppose. Either way, I disagree with Blair. Radical leftism would be way better than cunty crony conservatism, so I’d much rather win on that if it was the only way. But it isn’t. 

I was obviously paraphrasing, I was going to put agenda, rather than party or even policies, but I was expecting to be pulled up on whichever word I used. However, he was talking during the leadership election in 2015, so I took it as a condemnation of Corbyns' potential change in party direction and a shot across the bows of members who were massively supporting Corbyn. He gave it the heart over head line, I also know what the rest of his speech was. 

I took it as a slight in the way that he thought Corbyn would take the party and hence, I would rather lose with the current policies (Miliband at the time), rather than win under Corbyn. It can obviously be interpreted however people see fit, my interpretation was he was happier to lose by maintaining the status quo, all other candidates having just abstained on the benefits vote, rather than win under Corbyn who didn't. 

 

It is obvious I am not a big Blair fan but no matter which way he dressed it up, he said under certain circumstances he would rather the Labour party lose an election than win it.

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1 minute ago, Scooby Dudek said:

I was obviously paraphrasing, I was going to put agenda, rather than party or even policies, but I was expecting to be pulled up on whichever word I used. However, he was talking during the leadership election in 2015, so I took it as a condemnation of Corbyns' potential change in party direction and a shot across the bows of members who were massively supporting Corbyn. He gave it the heart over head line, I also know what the rest of his speech was. 

I took it as a slight in the way that he thought Corbyn would take the party and hence, I would rather lose with the current policies (Miliband at the time), rather than win under Corbyn. It can obviously be interpreted however people see fit, my interpretation was he was happier to lose by maintaining the status quo, all other candidates having just abstained on the benefits vote, rather than win under Corbyn who didn't. 

 

It is obvious I am not a big Blair fan but no matter which way he dressed it up, he said under certain circumstances he would rather the Labour party lose an election than win it.

I think paraphrasing is a stretch, and a fairly big stretch, but fuck it; Blair’s a cunt. 

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11 minutes ago, Numero said:

I think paraphrasing is a stretch, and a fairly big stretch, but fuck it; Blair’s a cunt. 

I know the history of his speech, i.e. Corbyn was favourite to win leadership, I was looking for it and found this headline;

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tony-blair-says-he-wouldn-t-want-left-wing-labour-party-win-election-10406928.html

 

Tony Blair says he wouldn’t want a left-wing Labour party to win an election

The former PM says he wouldn't take the 'route to victory' if it was left-wing.

Tony Blair has said he would not want a left-wing Labour party to win a general election.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, I need to register to read the full article, I didn't do that but no doubt that headline will be why I used the word party. My apologies for going of a press headline, but as I posted, irrespectively he said under certain circumstances he would rather Labour lose an election than win. 

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37 minutes ago, Brownie said:

Either way, those are some horrific quotes to come from an apparent Labour person.

 

Astonishing really.

What’s horrific about it? I think there’s a similarity with your position. Like I say, I don’t agree with him as I’d take the path to winning, but I also think he is right that ‘old fashioned radical leftism’ is dead as a political movement, which is party when an old fashioned lefty like Corbyn didn’t try to be too old fashioned radical left wing when it came to policy. The difference between your position and his seems to be which thing you think is right for the country. 

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1 minute ago, Scooby Dudek said:

I know the history of his speech, i.e. Corbyn was favourite to win leadership, I was looking for it and found this headline;

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tony-blair-says-he-wouldn-t-want-left-wing-labour-party-win-election-10406928.html

 

Tony Blair says he wouldn’t want a left-wing Labour party to win an election

The former PM says he wouldn't take the 'route to victory' if it was left-wing.

Tony Blair has said he would not want a left-wing Labour party to win a general election.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, I need to register to read the full article, I didn't do that but no doubt that headline will be why I used the word party. My apologies for going of a press headline, but as I posted irrespectively, he said under certain circumstances he would rather Labour lose an election than win. 

He said what I quoted. That’s not actually behind a pay wall, you just have to click ‘I’ll try later’. My main quibble was the right wing stuff. He is talking about radical social democracy. If social democracy is the new right wing, we are well and truly in shark jumping territory. 

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24 minutes ago, Numero said:

What’s horrific about it? I think there’s a similarity with your position. Like I say, I don’t agree with him as I’d take the path to winning, but I also think he is right that ‘old fashioned radical leftism’ is dead as a political movement, which is party when an old fashioned lefty like Corbyn didn’t try to be too old fashioned radical left wing when it came to policy. The difference between your position and his seems to be which thing you think is right for the country. 

No, the difference is what matches the whole point of Labour being Labour. Clue is in the name.

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12 minutes ago, Brownie said:

No, the difference is what matches the whole point of Labour being Labour. Clue is in the name.

Ach, well, I think a bit of reading on Labour history wouldn’t go a miss there. The idea that Labour is defined by old fashioned leftism and nothing else is at odds with the entire movement. It does need to split though. Not sure why many even want anything to do with Labour, even under Corbyn, as they seem more aligned with the SWP. 

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1 hour ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Some good news; Neil Hamilton lost his seat in the Senedd.

Mark Drakeford says hello.

 

 

Why the fuck ain't their a Mark Drakeford thread on here? He certainly deserves one.

 

 

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45 minutes ago, Numero said:

He said what I quoted. That’s not actually behind a pay wall, you just have to click ‘I’ll try later’. My main quibble was the right wing stuff. He is talking about radical social democracy. If social democracy is the new right wing, we are well and truly in shark jumping territory. 

The headline was about a Left wing Labour party. As I said I have not read the article for a long time, hence left/right wing party. I agree about social democracy not being the new right wing. Blair is implying Corbyn is in favour of "radical leftism" not "radical social democracy" ?

To repeat however, he is clearly saying, that if Corbyn wins the Leadership election he would rather lose that election with Corbyn in charge of policy platform, in fact if Corbyn or his "radical leftism" could win he would rather change policies and lose. 

 

So I will happily take my left/right wing party out and say this. Tony Blair said he would rather Labour lose an election than win it depending on the Labour party policy positions. We can attach whichever parameters we wish but this is what he said;

 

 “Let me make my position clear: I wouldn’t want to win on an old-fashioned leftist platform. Even if I thought it was the route to victory, I wouldn’t take it.”

 

 

 

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26 minutes ago, Numero said:

Ach, well, I think a bit of reading on Labour history wouldn’t go a miss there. The idea that Labour is defined by old fashioned leftism and nothing else is at odds with the entire movement. It does need to split though. Not sure why many even want anything to do with Labour, even under Corbyn, as they seem more aligned with the SWP. 

Since it’s creation, Labour has evolved and generally moved to the right. Do you agree?

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On 22/04/2021 at 10:06, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Count Binface has published his manifesto for London. 

 

20210422_095119.png

Didn't manage to win the Mayoral race, but he did beat Piers Corbyn and UKIP's Peter Gammons, so it's not all bad.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_London_mayoral_election#Results

 

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20 hours ago, Anubis said:

You hate to see it. You really do....

 

 

Of course he’s not losing £10,000 of his own money. It’ll come from the money he got from that vote leave supporting Brexiteer, Jeremy Hosking. Not the best investment Hosking has ever made.


 

Also beaten by a guy who wanted to reduce the price of Freddos back to 5p 

 

 

E05vrTsWQAAz1wM?format=jpg&name=small

 

  • Upvote 2

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5 hours ago, Denny Crane said:

 

 

 

 

Greens to the left of us, Tories to the right, stuck in the middle with Lib Dems.

 

He's going to need a decent plan.

 

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Definitely feels like there’s a realignment going on. Northern, traditional working class places going Tory and some southern remain leaning seats rejecting the Tories?

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