Elections 2021

[Strontium]

19 minutes ago, Scooby Dudek said:

To quote Tony Blair; 

I would rather lose with a right wing Labour party than win with a left wing Labour party.

 

That's not actually a quote, is it. You're paraphrasing.

[Megadrive Man]

The worrying thing for Labour is that the 2019 election had about 30 to 40 seats similar to Hartlepool, where The Brexit Party vote saved them. They could be heading for an even bigger defeat in 3 years time. 

[Bruce Spanner]

1 minute ago, MegadriveMan said:

The worrying thing for Labour is that the 2019 election had about 30 to 40 seats similar to Hartlepool, where The Brexit Party vote saved them. They could be heading for an even bigger defeat in 3 years time. 

 

[Brownie]

 

[sir roger]

A prospective question for Politics A Level next summer.

 

An election is held in a northern constituency on two occasions , 2019 and 2021.

A party led by Leader A achieves a vote of 15000 + in 2019

The same party led by Leader B achieves a vote of 8000+ in 2021

 

Please explain how the loss of votes is clearly down to Leader A , showing all your workings out.

[Colonel Bumcunt]

30 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

So the people in Hartlepool voted Conservative because the Labour candidate was too right wing? 

Exactly, bollocks.  The Tories have a party political broadcast each week for the past 14 months, and so it's not a case of Labour having done anything 'wrong' per se, it's just that the Tories 'look' in control of their shit and things are getting better.  

Now, at some point 'better' won't be enough, and people will look elsewhere perhaps.  But I think the Tories will keep Covid going for a while longer than is necessary to keep this war-footing approach going.  The people like this.  They like Big Government and red tape, even though the old Tories campaigned against it.  

[halewood pete]

[Megadrive Man]

4 hours ago, Stickman said:

Maybe next time there's a pandemic knocking about I think the Labour Party should go all out and political point score ...

Especially when the Govt do just that over a vaccine roll out that was pretty much down to the NHS 

 

It was such a simple argument to make as well.

 

Look at how bad privatised services are (track and trace) vs a Nationalised service (Vaccine roll out) 

[Mudface]

2 minutes ago, MegadriveMan said:

 

It was such a simple argument to make as well.

 

Look at how bad privatised services are (track and trace) vs a Nationalised service (Vaccine roll out) 

You mean NHS Track and Trace. They branded that well, and conveniently left NHS out of the vaccine delivery.

[Megadrive Man]

2 minutes ago, Mudface said:

You mean NHS Track and Trace. They branded that well, and conveniently left NHS out of the vaccine delivery.

 

True, but why were Labour not pointing this out? They just let them get away with it. 

[Brownie]

5 minutes ago, MegadriveMan said:

 

True, but why were Labour not pointing this out? They just let them get away with it. 

Because they are completely out of touch with what people care about.

[Chocoholic]

11 hours ago, Brownie said:

Yeah, this.

 

If Hartlepool has anything to do with Corbyn then how do you explain this?

 

He’s gone, so if he was so hated then naturally you’d expect to see a new leader bounce. It didn’t happen.

 

Starmer and the right of the party (still can’t believe that a left wing party even has a “right”) has to own this, it’s on them.

Except the new leader's bounce is that of a dead cat. A total stiff.

 

He purged as much of the left as possible, alienating thousands of loyal supporters and campaigners, who've just not been able to be arsed putting in the hours knocking on doors that they did with goodwill and good heart before. What else would he have expected?

 

He needed fucking off before, but after Hartlepool and local election results, there's no hiding any more. This is fully on him.

[Anubis]

You hate to see it. You really do....

 

 

Of course he’s not losing £10,000 of his own money. It’ll come from the money he got from that vote leave supporting Brexiteer, Jeremy Hosking. Not the best investment Hosking has ever made.

[A Red]

4 hours ago, Brownie said:

Because they are completely out of touch with what people care about.

Hang on, you were saying in the Starmer thread, that Labour should have policies regardless of whether they are popular and the electorate should be persuaded until they do care.

[Rico1304]

Remember when the people further on the left that anyone to the right should fuck off out of Labour?  Well that’s happened.  
 

Anyway, both candidates I’ve voted for have won this week.  I’m ace at this.  

[Numero Veinticinco]

5 hours ago, Scooby Dudek said:

Yet this candidate was imposed on Hartlepool against the local parties wishes, for the above reasons.

To quote Tony Blair; 

I would rather lose with a right wing Labour party than win with a left wing Labour party.

Which Tony Blair are you talking about, because the Tony Blair who lead the Labour Party didn’t say what you just quoted. He did say this though… 

 

‘Labour misunderstand the difference between radical leftism, which is often in fact quite reactionary – and radical social democracy, which is all about ensuring that values are put to work in the most effective way,” he said.

 

Let me make my position clear: I wouldn’t want to win on an old-fashioned leftist platform. Even if I thought it was the route to victory, I wouldn’t take it.”

 

“Even if you did [win] it wouldn’t be right because it wouldn’t take the country forward, it would take it backwards. That’s why it’s not the right thing to do.”

 

Thats quite some way from ‘sooner lose with a left wing party and lose with a right wing party’. Only if you understand ‘radical social democracy’ to mean ‘right wing’ could you come to that conclusion. I guess if you think ‘old fashioned radical leftism’ is the only meaning of ‘left wing’ then you might be on course to thinking that way I suppose. Either way, I disagree with Blair. Radical leftism would be way better than cunty crony conservatism, so I’d much rather win on that if it was the only way. But it isn’t. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

 

[Brownie]

29 minutes ago, Numero said:

Which Tony Blair are you talking about, because the Tony Blair who lead the Labour Party didn’t say what you just quoted. He did say this though… 

 

‘Labour misunderstand the difference between radical leftism, which is often in fact quite reactionary – and radical social democracy, which is all about ensuring that values are put to work in the most effective way,” he said.

 

Let me make my position clear: I wouldn’t want to win on an old-fashioned leftist platform. Even if I thought it was the route to victory, I wouldn’t take it.”

 

“Even if you did [win] it wouldn’t be right because it wouldn’t take the country forward, it would take it backwards. That’s why it’s not the right thing to do.”

 

Thats quite some way from ‘sooner lose with a left wing party and lose with a right wing party’. Only if you understand ‘radical social democracy’ to mean ‘right wing’ could you come to that conclusion. I guess if you think ‘old fashioned radical leftism’ is the only meaning of ‘left wing’ then you might be on course to thinking that way I suppose. Either way, I disagree with Blair. Radical leftism would be way better than cunty crony conservatism, so I’d much rather win on that if it was the only way. But it isn’t. 

Either way, those are some horrific quotes to come from an apparent Labour person.

 

Astonishing really.

[Scooby Dudek]

54 minutes ago, Numero said:

Which Tony Blair are you talking about, because the Tony Blair who lead the Labour Party didn’t say what you just quoted. He did say this though… 

 

‘Labour misunderstand the difference between radical leftism, which is often in fact quite reactionary – and radical social democracy, which is all about ensuring that values are put to work in the most effective way,” he said.

 

Let me make my position clear: I wouldn’t want to win on an old-fashioned leftist platform. Even if I thought it was the route to victory, I wouldn’t take it.”

 

“Even if you did [win] it wouldn’t be right because it wouldn’t take the country forward, it would take it backwards. That’s why it’s not the right thing to do.”

 

Thats quite some way from ‘sooner lose with a left wing party and lose with a right wing party’. Only if you understand ‘radical social democracy’ to mean ‘right wing’ could you come to that conclusion. I guess if you think ‘old fashioned radical leftism’ is the only meaning of ‘left wing’ then you might be on course to thinking that way I suppose. Either way, I disagree with Blair. Radical leftism would be way better than cunty crony conservatism, so I’d much rather win on that if it was the only way. But it isn’t. 

I was obviously paraphrasing, I was going to put agenda, rather than party or even policies, but I was expecting to be pulled up on whichever word I used. However, he was talking during the leadership election in 2015, so I took it as a condemnation of Corbyns' potential change in party direction and a shot across the bows of members who were massively supporting Corbyn. He gave it the heart over head line, I also know what the rest of his speech was. 

I took it as a slight in the way that he thought Corbyn would take the party and hence, I would rather lose with the current policies (Miliband at the time), rather than win under Corbyn. It can obviously be interpreted however people see fit, my interpretation was he was happier to lose by maintaining the status quo, all other candidates having just abstained on the benefits vote, rather than win under Corbyn who didn't. 

 

It is obvious I am not a big Blair fan but no matter which way he dressed it up, he said under certain circumstances he would rather the Labour party lose an election than win it.

[Numero Veinticinco]

1 minute ago, Scooby Dudek said:

I was obviously paraphrasing, I was going to put agenda, rather than party or even policies, but I was expecting to be pulled up on whichever word I used. However, he was talking during the leadership election in 2015, so I took it as a condemnation of Corbyns' potential change in party direction and a shot across the bows of members who were massively supporting Corbyn. He gave it the heart over head line, I also know what the rest of his speech was. 

I took it as a slight in the way that he thought Corbyn would take the party and hence, I would rather lose with the current policies (Miliband at the time), rather than win under Corbyn. It can obviously be interpreted however people see fit, my interpretation was he was happier to lose by maintaining the status quo, all other candidates having just abstained on the benefits vote, rather than win under Corbyn who didn't. 

 

It is obvious I am not a big Blair fan but no matter which way he dressed it up, he said under certain circumstances he would rather the Labour party lose an election than win it.

I think paraphrasing is a stretch, and a fairly big stretch, but fuck it; Blair’s a cunt. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Some good news; Neil Hamilton lost his seat in the Senedd.

[Scooby Dudek]

11 minutes ago, Numero said:

I think paraphrasing is a stretch, and a fairly big stretch, but fuck it; Blair’s a cunt. 

I know the history of his speech, i.e. Corbyn was favourite to win leadership, I was looking for it and found this headline;

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tony-blair-says-he-wouldn-t-want-left-wing-labour-party-win-election-10406928.html

 

Tony Blair says he wouldn’t want a left-wing Labour party to win an election

The former PM says he wouldn't take the 'route to victory' if it was left-wing.

Tony Blair has said he would not want a left-wing Labour party to win a general election.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, I need to register to read the full article, I didn't do that but no doubt that headline will be why I used the word party. My apologies for going of a press headline, but as I posted, irrespectively he said under certain circumstances he would rather Labour lose an election than win. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

37 minutes ago, Brownie said:

Either way, those are some horrific quotes to come from an apparent Labour person.

 

Astonishing really.

What’s horrific about it? I think there’s a similarity with your position. Like I say, I don’t agree with him as I’d take the path to winning, but I also think he is right that ‘old fashioned radical leftism’ is dead as a political movement, which is party when an old fashioned lefty like Corbyn didn’t try to be too old fashioned radical left wing when it came to policy. The difference between your position and his seems to be which thing you think is right for the country. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

1 minute ago, Scooby Dudek said:

I know the history of his speech, i.e. Corbyn was favourite to win leadership, I was looking for it and found this headline;

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tony-blair-says-he-wouldn-t-want-left-wing-labour-party-win-election-10406928.html

 

Tony Blair says he wouldn’t want a left-wing Labour party to win an election

The former PM says he wouldn't take the 'route to victory' if it was left-wing.

Tony Blair has said he would not want a left-wing Labour party to win a general election.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, I need to register to read the full article, I didn't do that but no doubt that headline will be why I used the word party. My apologies for going of a press headline, but as I posted irrespectively, he said under certain circumstances he would rather Labour lose an election than win. 

He said what I quoted. That’s not actually behind a pay wall, you just have to click ‘I’ll try later’. My main quibble was the right wing stuff. He is talking about radical social democracy. If social democracy is the new right wing, we are well and truly in shark jumping territory. 

[Brownie]

24 minutes ago, Numero said:

What’s horrific about it? I think there’s a similarity with your position. Like I say, I don’t agree with him as I’d take the path to winning, but I also think he is right that ‘old fashioned radical leftism’ is dead as a political movement, which is party when an old fashioned lefty like Corbyn didn’t try to be too old fashioned radical left wing when it came to policy. The difference between your position and his seems to be which thing you think is right for the country. 

No, the difference is what matches the whole point of Labour being Labour. Clue is in the name.