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If there’s a points deduction a significant proportion of the fan base of the big 6 - and let’s face it, of the PL because our fans outnumber the others - will use that as a reason to support a breakaway next time. Everton and the other cunts will be properly paid off next time. 
 

The Big 6 went at the king and missed, but the PL and UEFA now realise exactly how much they need the big clubs and in UEFA’s case must realise how expendable they are. 
 

 

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Perez has committed to a massive overhaul of the Bernabeu (over half a billion pounds) and desperately needs the money to pay for it, on top of still pushing the idea that Real Madrid are the biggest players in the transfer market.

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It would have been interesting if there was moves to ban us from the PL. In theory we could have pitched up at the Football League (a separate tournament). I am pretty sure, we could have taken a few other clubs with us - and as I suggested earlier, a few big clubs from the championship. I reckon it would be easy enough to siphon of another 30 teams - two smaller leagues allowing time for European league. 

 

The European League would have stood a better chance if it had more than 12 - add in the big teams from the Ukraine, Turkey, Chech, Romania, Serbia, etc - easily reach 32 teams - 2 leagues of 16. 

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18 hours ago, stringvest said:

Nah.  I live in another part of the country now, and I've travelled and worked extensively all over the country over the last 80 years.  Rather than Liverpool football club as an entity, fans of other clubs dislike our fans.  That should go without saying.  Look at the stuff we write about other teams' fans.  

 

But this hatred of Liverpool the place just isn't borne out by the facts.  People actually quite like the city, though it's generally seen as some sort of cartoon stag and hen night location.  If you go trawling through footballing tweets or internet forums, what do you expect to see?  Why would you want to waste valuable time looking at such rubbish?  The fans of this club are seen as bleating, self-reverential and entitled, with constant references to history and integrity, which even to the less self-aware of us must ring hollow in the way we behave and have done in the past.  We've got some right cunts who follow this club, and I would say the proportion of cunts vs non-cunts is probably no different to any other club.  We should stop searching out things to be offended about and crack on.

 

I've not found that to be honest. I think a lot of people like the city, especially people who are in to music and feel an affinity with the people when they visit, foreign people especially and people from England who're secure and happy enough in themselves that they don't have to make themselves feel better by trying to degrade others. 

 

A lot of morons slag scousers off though the way they would, say, gypsies or people on benefits, it's kind of a low hanging fruit that you won't get much grief for (unlike being racist, or sexist these days). These people tend to not themselves be the best examples of humanity, much like the type of people who sit there on the couch with their tramp stamp tattoos and B&M furniture watching shows about gypsy weddings on Channel 5 and having a right old laugh. The mancs are a great example of this, talking about council houses and slums when vast swathes of the place are the absolute arsehole of Western Europe and have been for decades. But hey, when you're shit - calling someone else shit makes you feel less shit, or something. 

 

I also don't think the idea that we're perceived as entitled or bleating too is widely believed either, I honestly don't, I think the hatred for Liverpool FC goes hand in hand with the above lazy stereotypes about the city itself, espoused by people who feel bad about their lives (modern footy fans aren't always the most urbane or well-adjusted of folks, you only have to look at how we've gone backwards 30 years in the racism stakes to know that) this has been amplified by jealousy about our recent success. Also, a lot of these folks don't like the idea that they can't compete in terms of how we're perceived as a fanbase globally. We're well respected and liked by fans of many other great clubs, many of whom sing our songs - so if we really were perceived as self-entitled, I don't think that would be the case. This is in contrast to the Mancs, who tend to get their heads kicked in when they go abroad. 

 

Also, all the stuff about great European nights, people like Wenger and Shearer sat there open mouthed at the noise from the crowd, if you're from a club that can't even sell all its seats like City, or a club like Chelsea with placky flags, that's got to cut deep - whether you admit it or not.

 

The fact anti-scouse and anti LFC sentiment go hand in hand is why I think your average Evertonian is a special kind of slag, especially with some of the songs they sing and the way the likes of Rooney used to lap it up when they were at the Mancs. They're basically slagging themselves off, and their so-called own city, families, friends and history. 

 

I don't mind being hated by people from other parts of England though, as generally speaking, I hate them too. I get bought pints by people in Vegas when they hear my accent because they claim to be descended from the Welsh - which is 'near Liverpool', so the opinions of some fat, thick slob from Hull who wears Lonsdale trainers and feeds his kids battered sausage for breakfast trouble me not.

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The stench of hypocrisy from the media still pervades. This article is from the torygraph. It's obviously a football 'story' but it's behind their paywall that Ive found a hack to get around.

 

All very well Oliver Brown pontificating about clubs, money and power when his employers use similar tactics to make sure their news and more importantly, their point of view is presented behind their paywall and only available to those who pay (or have found a hack, ha ha!).

 

But note the comment about steve parish. He wants to strip the 'most powerful clubs' of their influence at UEFA. In other words, he wants to castrate the 6 so the 14 have as much say. Does he just want that for our 6 or does he mean the most powerful clubs in Europe as well? And brown also chips in stating it is a 'proportionate and sensible thing to do'!

 

Henry may be a cunt in some people's eyes. But do you want vindictive and petty cunts like parish having the major say in football? This cunt wants to turn Liverpool FC into nothing better than Palace and I dare say, there are others within the PL who want to do the same to all the 6. I really will be finished with football if they do succeed.

 

One by one, football’s horsemen of the apocalypse realised that the game was up. First came John W Henry in a gilet, framed for his hostage video by a cupboard and a small vase of yellow tulips, the Liverpool owner insisting he had “heard” the opinions of fans he had sought so assiduously to ignore. Then there was the letter from Manchester United’s Joel Glazer, promising to “rebuild” a trust that, in his 16 years in charge, he had never managed to build in the first place.

You know matters are grave when these men feel compelled to go public. It took 2½ days from the announcement of a European Super League for Henry to release his 2½-minute mea culpa to supporters, and you could tell he was none too smitten with the idea. Even as the project in which he had connived lay in ruins, he blanked a BBC reporter asking questions as he arrived at Fenway Park, home to his Boston Red Sox. The Boston Globe also put in a request for him to comment but received no answer. Henry, just so you are aware, owns The Boston Globe.

So far as owners of the ESL’s dirty dozen are concerned, a brief confessional is all it takes to wriggle off the hook. No sooner had Henry repented on camera than he was praised by PR gurus, many arguing that he had shown exemplary crisis management by “owning” his mistake. Seriously, Henry is now our model for good PR? This is somebody whose beloved ESL was so extraordinarily amateurish, its spin doctors dashed off a statement confirming its collapse on what looked like a grainy Microsoft Word document, with no letterhead and a glaring typo. If this tumultuous week has shown us anything, it is that money can buy you neither class nor competence.

A feeling grows that we have borne witness to something obscene, to a power-grab so egregious that its perpetrators must be punished. Steve Parish, the Crystal Palace chairman, put it best when he described the ESL as a “coup to try to steal football”. In a political context, a coup can qualify as an act of treason. In football, seemingly, it can be atoned with an open letter or a quick video on social media. This time, though, the whip cries out to be cracked. These 12 owners not only compromised the bond between club and fan but dragged the image of football to its very nadir. The game cannot let it stand.

Parish’s prescription was simple, to strip the most powerful clubs of influence at Uefa and to deny them the protected past-performance spots that they stood to gain under the latest Champions League reforms. It is a sensible, proportionate proposal. As for the Premier League, sanctions could yet go further. Their lawyers are unlikely to have much joy in exploiting rule L9 of the league’s handbook, barring clubs from entering other competitions, given that the ESL did not eventuate. But there is clear potential in throwing rule B16 in the faces of rival clubs, with its warning that they should not take any action to bring the league into disrepute. Never mind disrepute, they have brought it into global derision.

More draconian measures are being tabled, but will struggle to work. Andy Burnham and Steve Rotheram, the mayors of Manchester and Liverpool, have suggested empowering supporters with a switch to the German “50+1” system, which ensures club’s members retain overall control by owning half the shares, plus one more, thus thwarting the influence of outside investors.

It is difficult, in all honesty, to envisage the Glazers or the rulers of Abu Dhabi entertaining any such notion. Equally, talk of points deductions is misplaced, since these would serve only to penalise the fans, who have been insulted quite enough by this ESL debacle. Far more sensible, surely, is to clip the big six’s wings, diluting their voting rights at the governing bodies to the point where they can never contemplate such a dastardly scheme again. The exemptions and privileges that they have tried to negotiate at Uefa must be revoked. If it happens, we might one day reflect that this week of convulsions did not turn out so badly after all. 

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I think the fairest and most just thing is for Uefa to ban the dirty dozen from all European competitions for the next 23 years.

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2 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

I think lots of us keep saying it, but the game is absolutely rotten to the core. With the disparities created in the game with the PL and the CL, it makes more and more teams just desperate to cling on in there. Just get the money.

 

Do you rememeber a time if a team was shit in the top flight , it was a thing to suggest going down for a year and rebuilding was a good thing? Now it's just a disaster. Everyone needs to cling onto their position at all costs. Just look at the club Newcastle have become (and Everton to a lesser extent before moshiri's cash h the school of science accepting that anti-football of Joe royal and David moyes). Life is survival and nothing else, it doesn't even have to be good to watch, just survive. No cups, no ambition to improve, just survive.

 

Theres a number of clubs (may I suggest ours too, in fact probably most of the "6") that would prefer not to play in the EL because of the damage it will do to your squad and as a consequence impact your domestic targets. It's fucking mental, especially as a fan because these games are great. There's so much cash in the very top competitions, the rest have become nothing. I grew up with winning the league cup was a good thing - not with everything else, but a good thing. The fa cup was up there with the league and in many ways more glamouruous. And there were 3 European competitions and it was a great achievement to win any of them and people wanted to take part in them. Cash and greed has destroyed it all. Year by year the game is geared to have the joy sucked out of it to make some people rich. 

Excellent post Baz and sadly very true.

Apparently the lovable caants the ammers are 9 points clear at the top so expect the points deduction thing to run for a bit 

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On 26/01/2016 at 13:43, deiseach said:

I'm not a local so I don't mind if people view this as an epiphany that no 'real' Liverpool supporter would experience. With that in mind . . .  this incident was the first time that I was able to imagine a life without Liverpool FC. Not the incident itself, which just made me roll my eyes at how juvenile it all was. It was in the match that followed against Barcelona, when Bellamy celebrated his equaliser by imitating a golf swing. I should have been overjoyed but instead I was enraged by this colossal prick thinking the whole thing was a joke. What  the fuck was I doing, putting so much of my mental well-being in the hands of these revolting men-children who didn't give a shit if I lived or died? The moment passed, but the memory remained. I don't know where my limit for the shitness of modern football lies - but I know I have a limit.

Five years on from this post, and my journey towards not caring took another lurch forward with this Super League debacle. The killing part is that I had been contemplating a much healthier future in relation to supporting Liverpool. Winning the title after all these years had lanced the boil that was viewing every league game as either a cup final (we need to win to win the league) or useless (it doesn't matter, we're not winning the league and this top four crap is just a pale imitation of the real thing). Most games in the last 30 years fell into the latter camp, which made the games in the former to be murderous in their intensity. Seriously, I nearly had a heart attack during the Wolves game at Molyneux last season, even though objectively the league was already won. The thought of screwing up, however small it was, was utterly excruciating. Thankfully all those feelings are ancient history, and now that I am back in Liverpool I was looking forward to occasionally using my wife's season ticket and being able to treat going to the ground as something casual rather than having to plan every visit with military precision. Even better, the redevelopment of the Anfield Road end would almost certainly lead to a season ticket of my own. We could go to games together, mix and match with my brother-in-law and a friend who will take it at the drop of a hat, or even bring my son. It was going to be great, and it still might be. I'm less sure now though. Thanks for that, FSG. Thanks a bloody lot.

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56 minutes ago, J-V said:

I think the fairest and most just thing is for Uefa to ban the dirty dozen from all European competitions for the next 23 years.

Imagine if they banned all English clubs and Everton finished top 4 next season. 

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They need to be careful - I am sure the other 14 clubs are angry because they were not invited. But, that only goes so far - remove the owners from all the various groups in the PL - sure. Strip them of their influence at UEFA and the UK has no influence at UEFA! 

 

Start treating the 6 clubs as Pariah's then eventually - they will bite back. The big elephant in the room over this ESL was that if the fans of the 6 clubs wanted it - it would have happened. The ESL was stopped by the fans of all 6 clubs - not Leeds fans calling Klopp a cunt. They (other 14 teams) are all patting themselves on the back thinking they won - they never, we did. But, that only goes so far - if you start targeting us, then that can quite easily be turned into victimising us - and our clubs can easily persuade all fans of the 6 clubs that if we don't stand up for ourselves we'll suffer. How easy would it be to get the message to our fans 'they want us to pay for them - they want our brand to earn them millions - and all they want to do is punish us and treat us like scum'. The other 14 clubs do not matter. The views of their fans are inconsequential, it may not lead to another breakaway - but it will lead to the big clubs abandoning the collective bargaining for the PL contract (you only need 6 to stop anything) - you only need 6 to stop any new TV deal being signed, any international deal being signed. And before you know it - the 6 clubs are doing their own TV deals. 

 

But sure, lets let West Ham, Villa and Brighton punish the 6 clubs for trying to look after themselves! 

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Imagine the messaging through UEFA - Ajax earn less than Burnley, Porto earn less than Sheffield United. Piss easy to portray the other 14 clubs as leeches - benefiting from the pull of the big 6 and inflating their wealth to the benefit of their owners. 

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2 minutes ago, Jockey said:

They need to be careful - I am sure the other 14 clubs are angry because they were not invited. But, that only goes so far - remove the owners from all the various groups in the PL - sure. Strip them of their influence at UEFA and the UK has no influence at UEFA! 

 

Start treating the 6 clubs as Pariah's then eventually - they will bite back. The big elephant in the room over this ESL was that if the fans of the 6 clubs wanted it - it would have happened. The ESL was stopped by the fans of all 6 clubs - not Leeds fans calling Klopp a cunt. They (other 14 teams) are all patting themselves on the back thinking they won - they never, we did. But, that only goes so far - if you start targeting us, then that can quite easily be turned into victimising us - and our clubs can easily persuade all fans of the 6 clubs that if we don't stand up for ourselves we'll suffer. How easy would it be to get the message to our fans 'they want us to pay for them - they want our brand to earn them millions - and all they want to do is punish us and treat us like scum'. The other 14 clubs do not matter. The views of their fans are inconsequential, it may not lead to another breakaway - but it will lead to the big clubs abandoning the collective bargaining for the PL contract (you only need 6 to stop anything) - you only need 6 to stop any new TV deal being signed, any international deal being signed. And before you know it - the 6 clubs are doing their own TV deals. 

 

But sure, lets let West Ham, Villa and Brighton punish the 6 clubs for trying to look after themselves! 

The way it was going through was obviously bad but I would expect any owner of Liverpool to secure their seat at the table. It might not be right, it might not be competitive but one day it's going to happen. When it does we need to be in that number.

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2 minutes ago, Saintslfc13 said:

The way it was going through was obviously bad but I would expect any owner of Liverpool to secure their seat at the table. It might not be right, it might not be competitive but one day it's going to happen. When it does we need to be in that number.

Absolutely - they are two different arguments! UEFA is a collective and the idea that the 6 clubs, should just abandon any influence is ridiculous. And the notion that UEFA is sacrosanct and needs to be respected - but these plans are a load of shit and need to be stopped is hilarious! 

 

The likes of Parish got traction over the weekend - calling out greed, and now they are in the murky reality of what modern football is and their hypocrisy is shining through! Oh - those UEFA plans are terrible as well by the way, can we stop them as well - haha - Dortmund, PSG and Munich signed up for them! You were lauding them as moral guardians on Monday. 

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5 hours ago, Jose Jones said:

 

I still don't think that explains it. 

I think they're smart enough to know media love to sensationalise stuff with all things to do with football.  They should have been prepared for all that as Barry says by massaging the messaging beforehand, but they didn't do anything of the sort.  FSG for example even bought the Boston Globe for Linda to run. 

  

And they are very experienced at dealing with politicians - there's no way they are scared of the Tories interfering in club ownership.  Even if they weren't fully expecting the bluster for Boris, they know a nice dinner and a few donations go a long way.

I think people are underestimating the political backlash, also owners of Chelsea and City aren't in it for the money and they were the first to pull out when it became obvious this puts them up against everybody.

 

American owners probably still privately don't understand what is wrong with it, increased revenues, more star players, great games every week, no relegation. The level of motivation was probably not equal, for some clubs that is a lifeline after squandering millions (look at that "debt league" graph) for other just a great business proposition, but not worth going to war against pretty much everyone.  

Overall, they underestimated the extent of potential backlash. 

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19 minutes ago, Jockey said:

They need to be careful - I am sure the other 14 clubs are angry because they were not invited. But, that only goes so far - remove the owners from all the various groups in the PL - sure. Strip them of their influence at UEFA and the UK has no influence at UEFA! 

 

Start treating the 6 clubs as Pariah's then eventually - they will bite back. The big elephant in the room over this ESL was that if the fans of the 6 clubs wanted it - it would have happened. The ESL was stopped by the fans of all 6 clubs - not Leeds fans calling Klopp a cunt. They (other 14 teams) are all patting themselves on the back thinking they won - they never, we did. But, that only goes so far - if you start targeting us, then that can quite easily be turned into victimising us - and our clubs can easily persuade all fans of the 6 clubs that if we don't stand up for ourselves we'll suffer. How easy would it be to get the message to our fans 'they want us to pay for them - they want our brand to earn them millions - and all they want to do is punish us and treat us like scum'. The other 14 clubs do not matter. The views of their fans are inconsequential, it may not lead to another breakaway - but it will lead to the big clubs abandoning the collective bargaining for the PL contract (you only need 6 to stop anything) - you only need 6 to stop any new TV deal being signed, any international deal being signed. And before you know it - the 6 clubs are doing their own TV deals. 

 

But sure, lets let West Ham, Villa and Brighton punish the 6 clubs for trying to look after themselves! 

Totally agree with you about the fans of the 6, in fact 12 clubs. With hindsight, the clubs failed to sell it to fans.

 

Rather than talk purely about finances to save themselves, they should have set out conditions fans would buy into. For example giving gaurantees at least 80% of tickets would go to fans for semis and finals of the competition and not sponsors. Cap ticket prices for all games including semis and final at say 35 quid or euro equivalent. Away fans pay the same as home fans in all games.

 

That's just starters.

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2 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

Totally agree with you about the fans of the 6, in fact 12 clubs. With hindsight, the clubs failed to sell it to fans.

 

Rather than talk purely about finances to save themselves, they should have set out conditions fans would buy into. For example giving gaurantees at least 80% of tickets would go to fans for semis and finals of the competition and not sponsors. Cap ticket prices for all games including semis and final at say 35 quid or euro equivalent. Away fans pay the same as home fans in all games.

 

That's just starters.

But to the likes of FSG and Kroenke, us legacy fans are part of the problem. Actually listening to what we want goes against everything the Super League stood for.

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18 minutes ago, joe_fishfish said:

But to the likes of FSG and Kroenke, us legacy fans are part of the problem. Actually listening to what we want goes against everything the Super League stood for.

Sorry to break it to you but that started under david moores when he started removing ST conditions to what you say FSG call legacy fans.

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1 hour ago, Jockey said:

Imagine the messaging through UEFA - Ajax earn less than Burnley, Porto earn less than Sheffield United. Piss easy to portray the other 14 clubs as leeches - benefiting from the pull of the big 6 and inflating their wealth to the benefit of their owners. 

This is the reason the English clubs backed out so quickly - the fans of the European clubs showed the same disdain for the project but they didn't fold. The English top flight is swimming in money.

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7 hours ago, Denny Crane said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Perez sounds like the Knight in the Holy Grail still trying to fight when his legs and arms have been chopped off

 

'Tis but a scratch, come back you coward, I'll bite you to death"

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16 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

This is the reason the English clubs backed out so quickly - the fans of the European clubs showed the same disdain for the project but they didn't fold. The English top flight is swimming in money.

 

Yep, but I do wonder if in future the best option would be to collect as many of these clubs as possible? The factor to Ajax, you'll earn more money - and won't lose your best players to some no-mark team in the PL. I think there a fair few massive fanbases in various European leagues that don't get to qualify for the Champions league every year who may think a closed shop is a risk worth taking. 

 

I'm struggling to think of any other major league that has £30m strikers at lower level clubs! 

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