Russia v Ukraine

[Section_31]

Ukraine has shot down a £250m Russian spy plane, as well as a bomber aircraft, in what amounts to its most successful attack on Kremlin aviation since the start of the war.

 

[TheHowieLama]

1 minute ago, Section_31 said:

Ukraine has shot down a £250m Russian spy plane, as well as a bomber aircraft, in what amounts to its most successful attack on Kremlin aviation since the start of the war.

 

 

 

Ukrainian air-defenses reportedly shot down two of the Russian air force’s rarest and most valuable command aircraft on Sunday: a Beriev A-50 radar early-warning plane and an Ilyushin Il-22 airborne command post.

 

 

 

 

[Section_31]

To be fair Russian technology claims are always somewhat overblown. Remember about five years ago they reckoned they'd built a neural net AA gun? Wibble. 

[SasaS]

That's a big deal, right? Since people are still skeptical they could have done it.

[Edward.]

The spy plane(Il-22 ) was damaged and managed to land back in Russia.

[Curly]

1 hour ago, Section_31 said:

Ukraine has shot down a £250m Russian spy plane, as well as a bomber aircraft, in what amounts to its most successful attack on Kremlin aviation since the start of the war.

 

Yeah, but Russia wanted to get rid of those planes, so stupid Ukraine have saved them a load of money on the scrappage fees. Plus, America are over there doing idiotic bits and bobs. Then there’s the west. Or something

[ZonkoVille77]

2 hours ago, Section_31 said:

Ukraine has shot down a £250m Russian spy plane, as well as a bomber aircraft, in what amounts to its most successful attack on Kremlin aviation since the start of the war.

 

 

You've just ruined Gnasher's Monday wank.

[Gnasher]

3 hours ago, ZonkoVille77 said:

 

You've just ruined Gnasher's Monday wank.

 

I care little for who's killing whom in militarily tit for tats. Its ultimately little more than a suicide mission.

 

I'm more interested in the geopolitical con job where our energy bills double our cost of living rise whilst working class Ukrainians are sent to be killed. The ones with money and contacts buy themselves out  

 

 

Prime Minister Rhisi Sunak was in Ukraine last week with a 2.5 billion cheque. His wife is still operating a firm out of Moscow. 

 

'their's gold in them there hills' Boris Johnson. 

 

the Fred from Facebook military updates are of little concern to me. I don't begrudge those who enjoy that sort of thing though. 

 

 

[SasaS]

It's a source of constant bewilderment to me how the Blumenthals of this world seem to never realize there are people in Moscow who started all this and can stop it tomorrow and are willing to talk about any other issue except that.

 

This fact somehow always seems to elude them, the fearlessly independent intrepid investigating journalists.   

[Planet Origi]

 

 

[Section_31]

Uh oh, we got a moron here.

[Gnasher]

On 15/01/2024 at 17:15, SasaS said:

It's a source of constant bewilderment to me how the Blumenthals of this world seem to never realize there are people in Moscow who started all this and can stop it tomorrow and are willing to talk about any other issue except that.

 

This fact somehow always seems to elude them, the fearlessly independent intrepid investigating journalists.   

 

Them pesky journalists asking questions and raising pertinent points.  Want to address or  comment on the points he raised or just a lazy shoot the messenger post?

[Gnasher]

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/boris-johnson-ukraine-kyiv-davos-b2265246.html

 

 

https://www.euronews.com/2022/07/27/boris-johnson-gives-churchill-award-to-ukraines-zelenskyy

 

 

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/zelenskyy-honors-boris-johnson-‘order-liberty’-award-204465

 

Nothing to see here. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/feb/17/boris-johnson-agrees-to-buy-4m-nine-bed-georgian-manor-house-with-moat

 

 

[Gnasher]

 

https://www.businessinsider.in/tech/news/the-company-that-pays-akshata-murthy-wife-of-british-pm-rishi-sunak-11-5-million-a-year-is-still-operating-in-russia-report-says/articleshow/95324600.cms

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/04/infosys-still-operating-russia-rishi-sunak-akshata-murty

 

 

[Section_31]

Kip of this.

 

 

[Gnasher]

4 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Kip of this.

 

 

Cool.

[SasaS]

9 hours ago, Gnasher said:

 

Them pesky journalists asking questions and raising pertinent points.  Want to address or  comment on the points he raised or just a lazy shoot the messenger post?

 

Who is the shot messanger and what pertinent points? They pretend to bi missing the main point, which is that the solution of all this is with Moscow, not in Washington or Kiev. 

[Gnasher]

3 hours ago, SasaS said:

 

Who is the shot messanger and what pertinent points? They pretend to bi missing the main point, which is that the solution of all this is with Moscow, not in Washington or Kiev. 

 

Good luck with that. You ask questions of who is in front of you. A journalist would take to task a Democrat if he was interviewing a Democrat or a Republican if he was interviewing a Republican. Just because the Russkies are at fault doesn't mean  any scrutiny of Americas response if off limits. That's ridiculous. Especially as America has spent a Zillion quid of taxpayers money and expecially if some main players are benefiting financially from the continuation of this war. 

[SasaS]

38 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

 

Good luck with that. You ask questions of who is in front of you. A journalist would take to task a Democrat if he was interviewing a Democrat or a Republican if he was interviewing a Republican. Just because the Russkies are at fault doesn't mean  any scrutiny of Americas response if off limits. That's ridiculous. Especially as America has spent a Zillion quid of taxpayers money and expecially if some main players are benefiting financially from the continuation of this war. 

 

Absolutely, I am all for scrutiny and personally think the US did way too little to help Ukraine militarily and sent stuff like Switchblade 300 drones that proved completely ineffective, instead of completely revamping their production capacities as early as in October 2021. They should have either stayed away and leave Ukrainians to their faith or make sure they win, push them to develop their own production capabilities , not constantly stagger their assistance.

 

Blumenthal on the other hand simply amplifies Russian narrative of military assistance motivated by personal gain of the well connected (which always happens to a degree in wars) because it fits his general ideological position. He also talks about a "negotiated settlement" as if the possibility of just peace was ever actually on the table - they all constantly go back to the April '22 Istanbul negotiations as some moment when that was achievable, as if this was some undisputed fact, and not just a Russian spin to deflect the blame for the invasion. As if this was some fragile, singular moment in history when Russia wanted peace, which somehow they could not have replicated over the subsequent 21 months because of... what? What is more, they keep openly and publicly repeating what they want and that would be equal to Ukraine's conditional surrender.

 

Which is then the thing the Blumenthals of this world keep ignoring, because it does not fit their narrative and they could not keep attacking their political targets. You just use selective logic so you can maintain your position. Imagine people in the '60s directing their ire over the Vietnam war to the Soviet military industrial complex or ideological expansionism preventing the Vietnamese and the Cambodians negotiate a settlement with the Americans.

[TheSire]

21 minutes ago, SasaS said:

 

Absolutely, I am all for scrutiny and personally think the US did way too little to help Ukraine militarily and sent stuff like Switchblade 300 drones that proved completely ineffective, instead of completely revamping their production capacities as early as in October 2021. They should have either stayed away and leave Ukrainians to their faith or make sure they win, push them to develop their own production capabilities , not constantly stagger their assistance.

 

Blumenthal on the other hand simply amplifies Russian narrative of military assistance motivated by personal gain of the well connected (which always happens to a degree in wars) because it fits his general ideological position. He also talks about a "negotiated settlement" as if the possibility of just peace was ever actually on the table - they all constantly go back to the April '22 Istanbul negotiations as some moment when that was achievable, as if this was some undisputed fact, and not just a Russian spin to deflect the blame for the invasion. As if this was some fragile, singular moment in history when Russia wanted peace, which somehow they could not have replicated over the subsequent 21 months because of... what? What is more, they keep openly and publicly repeating what they want and that would be equal to Ukraine's conditional surrender.

 

Which is then the thing the Blumenthals of this world keep ignoring, because it does not fit their narrative and they could not keep attacking their political targets. You just use selective logic so you can maintain your position. Imagine people in the '60s directing their ire over the Vietnam war to the Soviet military industrial complex or ideological expansionism preventing the Vietnamese and the Cambodians negotiate a settlement with the Americans.

You're wasting your time putting the effort into engaging mate. It's obvious some here are well educated around politics, international relations, history etc but the detail and nuance gets ignored in favour of the twitter post of the day.

 

You're dealing with a narcissist, every post smacks of arrogance and some snarky little witless tagline. 

[TheHowieLama]

8 minutes ago, TheSire said:

 the detail and nuance

 

Putin claims war would have ended long ago if it hadn't been for Ukraine

[Gnasher]

12 minutes ago, TheSire said:

You're wasting your time putting the effort into engaging mate. It's obvious some here are well educated around politics, international relations, history etc but the detail and nuance gets ignored in favour of the twitter post of the day.

 

You're dealing with a narcissist, every post smacks of arrogance and some snarky little witless tagline. 

 

 

Go fuck yourself. Take your head out of your arse you pompous blert.

[SasaS]

35 minutes ago, SasaS said:

 

Absolutely, I am all for scrutiny and personally think the US did way too little to help Ukraine militarily and sent stuff like Switchblade 300 drones that proved completely ineffective, instead of completely revamping their production capacities as early as in October 2021. They should have either stayed away and leave Ukrainians to their faith or make sure they win, push them to develop their own production capabilities , not constantly stagger their assistance.

 

 

 

Fate. As in destiny, not Russian / Ukrainian Orthodox.

[Gnasher]

12 minutes ago, SasaS said:

 

Fate. As in destiny, not Russian / Ukrainian Orthodox.

 

I gathered what you meant.

 

Back on topic. If the questions raised are correct (and they are perfectly justifiable questions to ask however uncomfortable) and Blinken and Co are making money through sidelines its a conflict of intrest. He and others should have stepped down from their position in those firms or their position in government. They shouldn't be making the decisions relating to Ukrainian lives or American tax payers money  Those decisions should be made by people with no vested interests. 

[SasaS]

10 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

 

I gathered what you meant.

 

Back on topic. If the questions raised are correct (and they are perfectly justifiable questions to ask however uncomfortable) and Blinken and Co are making money through sidelines its a conflict of intrest. He and others should have stepped down from their position in those firms or their position in government. They shouldn't be making the decisions relating to Ukrainian lives or American tax payers money  Those decisions should be made by people with no vested interests. 

 

In the part where he goes from propaganda to actual names, I don't think what he is saying consists of either concrete, specific revelations of actual conflict of interest or possibly truths. It goes like, he used to work for something and will probably continue later and that something was founded by someone who famously said (insert a politically charged quote). It's not that hard to do. There is a constant movement between Washington and White House and private sector, from Obama's IT execs to Goldman Sachs finance ministers etc.