Russia v Ukraine

[SasaS]

9 hours ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

I'm not going to pretend I can understand all of what's going on there, I'll try and have a read up on what's been happening in the east of Ukraine though if I end up posting back on it. I really hope it doesn't come down to Russia entering Ukraine though and that something more peaceful can be worked out.

Some analysts suggest it is not if but when Ukraine will move to regain Donbas. When is most likely conditioned by their estimate of Russian capabilities, can Ukraine sufficiently block or withstand a limited military response. This will also affect the willingness of Donbas leaders to persist with the current situation. Ukraine has apparently successfully revitalized parts of the old military industrial complex so they can now make some mid-range missiles of their own.

 

Russia's main problem is that they want to control what Ukraine does strategically, as a geopolitical imperative (among other imperatives) and the ability to do so heavily relies on the strength or weakness of Ukrainian (separate) national identity, among the general population. The snag is, there is nothing better than being under military and existential pressure by your big neighbour to awaken or strengthen your national identity.

[Red Phoenix]

5 hours ago, SasaS said:

Russia's main problem is that they want to control what Ukraine does strategically

 

Seeing as the US backed a coup there and have been manipulating things since along with regularly sending them arms I don't think Russia should be singled out with this.

 

I'm not trying to be a tankie or whatever, I don't want Russia in the Ukraine. I don't think it's all their fault though. I'd prefer it if both the US and Russia stayed out of Ukraine's affairs.

[SasaS]

1 minute ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

Seeing as the US backed a coup there and have been manipulating things since along with regularly sending them arms I don't think Russia should be singled out with this.

 

I'm not trying to be a tankie or whatever, I don't want Russia in the Ukraine. I don't think it's all their fault though. I'd prefer it if both the US and Russia stayed out of Ukraine's affairs.

The thing is, this mainly revolves and will continue to revolve around a Russia - Ukraine dinamic. The US was just being opportunistic. Any analysis which either begins or focuses on American involvement will be limited and ultimately flawed. Ukraine will always try to achieve a level of emancipation from Russia and will always look for an ally willing to help. It may be Nazi Germany in Bandera's time, EU, US. The other side is always Russia and its manifestations, Empire, Soviet Union, now Putin's superpower wannabe Russia.

[TheHowieLama]

16 hours ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

If NATO and the US stop acting like idiots and actually accept that NATO now being right up at their border is completely fucking over the top 

You do know there are already NATO countries that border Russia yea?

19 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

Seeing as the US backed a coup there

Walk me through this.

[A Red]

Wars are gods way of teaching Americans geography. Said someone.

[Red Phoenix]

OK Russia are the bad guys and a coup was just the US being opportunistic. If Russia did the same with a country next to the US things would be calm and rational too as we know, maybe they could send arms to some Stalinists too to balance out the neo-Nazis in the Ukraine.

 

Howie it's not hard to see articles on the US backing a coup, US politicians supporting fascist opposition (check McCain and Svoboda Party for example), Nuland's Fuck the EU leaked call where she talks about who she'd prefer installed and so on.

 

And yes I know NATO are already at the border.

 

I'll try and go back to covid protests and give this thread a break, hopefully I can last more than a few hours.

[SasaS]

9 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

OK Russia are the bad guys and a coup was just the US being opportunistic. If Russia did the same with a country next to the US things would be calm and rational too as we know, maybe they could send arms to some Stalinists too to balance out the neo-Nazis in the Ukraine.

 

Howie it's not hard to see articles on the US backing a coup, US politicians supporting fascist opposition (check McCain and Svoboda Party for example), Nuland's Fuck the EU leaked call where she talks about who she'd prefer installed and so on.

 

And yes I know NATO are already at the border.

 

I'll try and go back to covid protests and give this thread a break, hopefully I can last more than a few hours.

You would probably need to read some local history for more context, not just Pilger and other sources mainly interested in always opposing US foreign policy. 

[TheHowieLama]

22 hours ago, Red Phoenix said:

Ukraine have been actually trying to calm this down but the US (and the media) have been ramping things up for a while now. If there's any proof you need that they're causing most of this current shit it's that. Zelensky has literally been pointing out how stupid it's become.

Hours after Zelenskyy’s parliament address and minutes after talks with visiting British Prime Minister Boris Johnson, the seasoned thespian looked and sounded like a totally different character – someone scared and in need of urgent help.

“We have to get ready for bad things. And we’re doing it. Despite all the alliances, doors and windows that are open to us, no one knows where the door and where the window are and what it is going to happen,” Zelenskyy told reporters.

In recent weeks, he has exhibited two different, mutually exclusive stage personas that reflect Ukraine’s own duality.

It is a deeply polarised nation.

Zelenskyy has to walk a political tightrope balancing between Russian-speaking east and south that gravitate towards Russia culturally and economically – without necessarily being pro-Putin, and the Ukrainian-speaking centre and west that spawn most of the labour migrants and want Kyiv to join the European Union and the NATO.

“Zelenskyy’s position is not a cunning plan, it is a disparity between his foreign policy submissiveness and domestic legitimacy,” Kyiv-based analyst Aleksey Kushch told Al Jazeera.

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/4/facing-putins-threat-ukraines-president-plays-two-roles

 

[Red Phoenix]

5 hours ago, TheHowieLama said:

Hours after Zelenskyy’s parliament address and minutes after talks with visiting British Prime Minister Boris Johnson, the seasoned thespian looked and sounded like a totally different character – someone scared and in need of urgent help.

 

“We have to get ready for bad things. And we’re doing it. Despite all the alliances, doors and windows that are open to us, no one knows where the door and where the window are and what it is going to happen,” Zelenskyy told reporters.

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/4/facing-putins-threat-ukraines-president-plays-two-roles

 

It'd be good if he could make his mind up.

 

Meanwhile, we're in "Alex Jones territory" at the US State Department :

 

 

[halewood pete]

[Strontium]

 

[Section_31]

What a time to be alive.

 

 

 

[General Dryness]

20 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

What a time to be alive.

 

 

 

Quick, call it off before they come out with a new flavour. Probably something like "chocolate hey let's all try to get along, man", or "cookies and cream and multilateral disarmament "

[Section_31]

In fairness a lot of Putin's critics end up as phish food.

[Bjornebye]

16 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

In fairness a lot of Putin's critics end up as phish food.

Iron Curtain Mike 

[Strontium]

47 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

What a time to be alive.

 

 

 

 

 

[Anubis]

Well at least she didn’t offer to shag him.

 

 

[Section_31]

Lavrov said, "Do you recognize Russia's sovereignty over Rostov and Voronezh oblasts?" Truss said the UK would "never" do so – before the ambassador told her they're not in Ukraine

[Anubis]

The UK delegation coming unprepared. Now where have we heard that before….

[Anubis]

 

 

[tokyojoe]

I can't get the link but seemingly a massive part of the Russian Air Force is parked on Ukraine's borders. Expensive moving all those airplanes, it's not been done for fun.

[Section_31]

I loved the 80s, I have to say.

 

 

 

A deployment of American Airforce B-52 bombers have arrived in the UK as fears continue to escalate over a Russian invasion of Ukraine.

 

 

[Gnasher]

Our Liz has sorted the little Ukrainian problem out, 

 

 

[Gnasher]

On 04/02/2022 at 17:58, A Red said:

Wars are gods way of teaching Americans geography. Said someone.

Here's the government map,

 

 

[tokyojoe]

Reminds me of this, from the Spitting Image book.