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Russia v Ukraine


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Ukraine in talks ‘on place and time’ for negotiations with Russia

Roman Olearchyk in Kyiv

The administration of Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky said that talks were under way with Russia’s Vladimir Putin to hold negotiations aimed at preventing further bloodshed caused by Russia’s full-blown invasion of the country.

Serhiy Nykyforov, Zelensky’s press secretary, said late on Friday evening in a Facebook post that “during these hours, the parties consult on the place and time of the negotiation process.”

“The sooner negotiations begin, the better the chances of resuming normal life,” he added.

Nykyforov continued: “I must refute the allegations that we have refused to negotiate. Ukraine has been and remains ready to talk about a ceasefire and peace. This is our constant position. We agreed to the proposal of the President of the Russian Federation.”

 

https://www.ft.com/content/93554a7e-f974-49fc-85ba-c111d253b002

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We live in a shitty world where superpowers can do what they want with impunity. It's not right or fair on Ukraine that they have always been under Russia's sphere of influence, trying to escape from that sphere is one thing, trying to join a enemy alliance is something else and Russia would never tolerate it. Ukraine has been caught in the middle of two powers vying for influence. It's the Cold War all over again. 

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1 minute ago, Brownie said:

Is that significant that they abstained rather than veto’d? Or could they not also veto?

They could have vetoed or they could have voted against the resolution. It means nothing really, except that they don't officially support the Russians.

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28 minutes ago, Pureblood said:

 

Ukraine in talks ‘on place and time’ for negotiations with Russia

Roman Olearchyk in Kyiv

The administration of Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky said that talks were under way with Russia’s Vladimir Putin to hold negotiations aimed at preventing further bloodshed caused by Russia’s full-blown invasion of the country.

Serhiy Nykyforov, Zelensky’s press secretary, said late on Friday evening in a Facebook post that “during these hours, the parties consult on the place and time of the negotiation process.”

“The sooner negotiations begin, the better the chances of resuming normal life,” he added.

Nykyforov continued: “I must refute the allegations that we have refused to negotiate. Ukraine has been and remains ready to talk about a ceasefire and peace. This is our constant position. We agreed to the proposal of the President of the Russian Federation.”

 

https://www.ft.com/content/93554a7e-f974-49fc-85ba-c111d253b002

This would be de facto capitulation.

And Putin doesn't care about NATO or neutrality. He wants to turn Ukraine into a new Belarus. Ukraine was not being fast-tracked to NATO anyway. It was their idiot president who wouldn't shut up about wanting to join NATO. Then he whined he had to fight alone against Russia. Who did he think would fight instead of Ukraine? What a country.

Makes you feel sorry for anybody in Pentagon or the US State Department having to deal with this idiot. Makes you want to cry for the soldiers that died or are still fighting, while their I-am-the-number-one-target-president sells them down the river and hands Putin the victory. He will not get a ceasefire, he will not get a withdrawal of Russian troops, he will have to pull out of the rest of Donbas. Fortunately, he will neither be the president any longer. Or alive.

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13 minutes ago, Baltar said:

We live in a shitty world where superpowers can do what they want with impunity. It's not right or fair on Ukraine that they have always been under Russia's sphere of influence, trying to escape from that sphere is one thing, trying to join a enemy alliance is something else and Russia would never tolerate it. Ukraine has been caught in the middle of two powers vying for influence. It's the Cold War all over again. 

No. This sentiment has existed for a very long time. Actually take time to read Putin’s own doctrines and essays on Ukraine. That breed of Russian nationalists consider it an ancestral right going back to the 1200s or beyond. They have undermined Ukraine for years and this was an inevitability; the only “existence” in that part of the world is total if unofficial subjugation (such as Lukashenko’s Belarus or Kazakhstan). Please do not get caught up in the rat trap that this is some sort of NATO originated conflict. This is centuries old.

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1 minute ago, SasaS said:

This would be de facto capitulation.

And Putin doesn't care about NATO or neutrality. He wants to turn Ukraine into a new Belarus. Ukraine was not being fast-tracked to NATO anyway. It was their idiot president who wouldn't shut up about wanting to join NATO. Than he whined he had to fight alone against Russia. Who did he think would fight instead of Ukraine? What a country.

Makes you feel sorry for anybody in Pentagon or the US State Department having to deal with this idiot. Makes you want to cry for the soldiers that died or are still fighting, while their I-am-the-number-one-target-president sells them down the river and hands Putin the victory. He will not get a ceasefire, he will not get a withdrawal of Russian troops, he will have to pull out of the rest of Donbas. Fortunately, he will neither be the president any longer. Or alive.

 

 

So it's Ukraines fault. 

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4 minutes ago, SasaS said:

This would be de facto capitulation.

And Putin doesn't care about NATO or neutrality. He wants to turn Ukraine into a new Belarus. Ukraine was not being fast-tracked to NATO anyway. It was their idiot president who wouldn't shut up about wanting to join NATO. Then he whined he had to fight alone against Russia. Who did he think would fight instead of Ukraine? What a country.

Makes you feel sorry for anybody in Pentagon or the US State Department having to deal with this idiot. Makes you want to cry for the soldiers that died or are still fighting, while their I-am-the-number-one-target-president sells them down the river and hands Putin the victory. He will not get a ceasefire, he will not get a withdrawal of Russian troops, he will have to pull out of the rest of Donbas. Fortunately, he will neither be the president any longer. Or alive.

Well, they're not going to win if they continue fighting.  Isn't it better to enter talks and salvage what they can?

 

It's hard to put oneself in that position, but I think I'd prefer it rather than being given a Molotov cocktail and told "off you go". 

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3 minutes ago, Pureblood said:

Well, they're not going to win if they continue fighting.  Isn't it better to enter talks and salvage what they can?

 

It's hard to put oneself in that position, but I think I'd prefer it rather than being given a Molotov cocktail and told "off you go". 

Ok.

 

Interesting take from you on a person's civil liberties after the last few months.

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10 minutes ago, Pureblood said:

Well, they're not going to win if they continue fighting.  Isn't it better to enter talks and salvage what they can?

 

It's hard to put oneself in that position, but I think I'd prefer it rather than being given a Molotov cocktail and told "off you go". 

You can always surrender.

 

Do you think Russia has began an all-out attack on Ukraine so they can talk with them about neutrality?

 

Ukraine says they are now expecting a major attack on Kiev. If they lose Kiev, what is there to salvage? What will they be talking about?

It's immediate ceasefire and then talks, not talks while you continue to kill my people.

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3 minutes ago, SasaS said:

You can always surrender.

 

Do you think Russia has began an all-out attack on Ukraine so they can talk with them about neutrality?

 

Ukraine says they are now expecting a major attack on Kiev. If they lose Kiev, what is there to salvage? What will they be talking about?

It's immediate ceasefire and then talks, not talks while you continue to kill my people.

I don't know, I can't see inside Putin's head as to what his motives are.

 

Agree that it'll probably be over quickly, though.  

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6 hours ago, Strontium said:

 

Why should Ukraine have to remain "neutral", whatever that's supposed to mean? These people are off their friggin' rockers.

 

Wouldn't be surprised if Yanis is not far off the money with that observation on neutrality. The man has spent half a lifetime negotiating complex problems with world bankers in all manor of different countries, he knows theirs going to have to be some sort of settlement in the end, best sooner rather than later. 

 

 

 

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When you're handing out AK47's and molotov cocktail recipes to civilians that have never used a weapon in their lives you know you've fucked up somewhere along the line. Why would a civilian risk their lives against Russian Spetznaz forces? It's a suicide mission. And the American teenagers posting things like the Anarchist's Cookbook on Reddit (thinking they're helping people) are going to cause a bunch of Ukrainians to blow their own arms off trying to make that shit.

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