Jump to content
Bjornebye

Russia v Ukraine

Recommended Posts

4 hours ago, ZonkoVille77 said:

That's why people still want the Brits out of Ireland. 

 

The fascist Brits who introduced democracy to Ireland want to invade and overturn it? Amazing if true. Ireland has, however, had independence for a century - the "Brits" are out of Ireland already.

  • Downvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Strontium said:

 

The fascist Brits who introduced democracy to Ireland want to invade and overturn it? Amazing if true. Ireland has, however, had independence for a century - the "Brits" are out of Ireland already.

 

1 - "The fascist Brits who introduced democracy to Ireland". - you're incorrect. They introduced "democracy" for British people in Ireland, with a parliament in England overseeing the decisions. Irish people had very limited voting capabilities and those they could vote for had British interests at heart. Some "Democracy", but fair play to you for trying to re-write history. 

 

 In 1613, in order to approve the seizure of Catholic owned land for ‘plantations’ or settlement of Protestant colonists, electoral boundaries were redrawn to give Protestants a majority. Catholics (around 80% of the population) were banned from holding public office  (from the House of Commons in 1691 and from the Lords in 1716) and banned from voting altogether in 1728.[1]

This began to change in 1793, when Catholics and all male property holders of over 40 shillings were allowed to vote for the Irish Parliament. Still at this stage only Protestants could hold office. Constituencies were also very unevenly distributed.

 

2 - This is your direct post "faced with an imperialistic and fascistic neighbour that wants to overturn their democracy and supplant their native culture" - Exactly what Britain did. They being an imperialistic state (Britannia rules the waves remember?) literally planted British people onto Irish land and eradicated Irish customs and language. It's why most Irish people speak English now. So you're incorrect again. 

 

3 - "Ireland has, however, had independence for a century". Again you're incorrect. "The constitution adopted by the Irish people in 1937 declared Ireland to be “a sovereign, independent, democratic state,” and the Irish Free State was renamed Eire. Eire remained neutral during World War II, and in 1949 the Republic of Ireland Act severed the last remaining link with the Commonwealth." So they had a staggered independence until they officially became a Republic in 1949. In 1922 they only had self-governing status, no different to some of what Wales currently has.

 

4 - "The "Brits" are out of Ireland already." - again incorrect. If I have to even explain this to you then we're totally lost and I may as well speak to a bucket of piss. 

 

Impressive how much you got wrong in one single post. I admire someone who can be spectacularly wrong in so few words. The Dunnin-Kruger effect comes to mind?

 

I'll just pop your initial post below once again, just to expose the sort of absolute bollocks hypocrisy you are well capable of chatting at times. 

 

"Special attention should always be given when an indigenous people, tied to the land for thousands of years, are faced with an imperialistic and fascistic neighbour that wants to overturn their democracy and supplant their native culture, presence and language."

  • Upvote 6
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, SasaS said:

Of all the things happening in a war like this one, it seems bizarre that an organization would focus on this. Literally every urban settlement which is engulfed by frontlines has subsequently been used as a natural fortification, in this and almost every other modern war.

 

 

I believe they focus on their job. Its not a case of picking sides or highlighting one situation over another. Amnesty has constantly accused Russia of war crimes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

I believe they focus on their job. Its not a case of picking sides or highlighting one situation over another. Amnesty has constantly accused Russia of war crimes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Don’t let facts confuse the children mate. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Gnasher said:

I believe they focus on their job. Its not a case of picking sides or highlighting one situation over another. Amnesty has constantly accused Russia of war crimes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That one was particularly tone deaf from them and Ukrainians are fully entitled to be pissed off.

 In one of the examples in the report they are accusing a group of Ukrainian soldiers of staying in the house in Mikolaev which was then bombed by the Russians and the neighbour was killed in his garden. This is the town where almost a hundred paratroopers died in a rocket attack in March or April because they slept at their base.

You have to be an idiot to come up with stuff like that so you can say we are neutral and impartial.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, SasaS said:

 

That one was particularly tone deaf from them and Ukrainians are fully entitled to be pissed off.

 In one of the examples in the report they are accusing a group of Ukrainian soldiers of staying in the house in Mikolaev which was then bombed by the Russians and the neighbour was killed in his garden. This is the town where almost a hundred paratroopers died in a rocket attack in March or April because they slept at their base.

You have to be an idiot to come up with stuff like that so you can say we are neutral and impartial.

On a broader note its difficult to get an accurate picture from Ukraine as Zelensky has silenced and banned most of the media and has outlawed opposition politicians and parties. 

 

When it comes to media coverage Zelensky couldn't possibly have received more favourable coverage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

On a broader note its difficult to get an accurate picture from Ukraine as Zelensky has silenced and banned most of the media and has outlawed opposition politicians and parties. 

 

When it comes to media coverage Zelensky couldn't possibly have received more favourable coverage.

Not sure what this has got to do with Amnesty International's decision to go out with this report.

 

I think you may be confusing sympathy for the victim of brutal Russian aggression with positive coverage of Zelensky. It chiefly stems from his position as a president of a country trying to fight off an invasion.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, SasaS said:

Not sure what this has got to do with Amnesty International's decision to go out with this report.

 

I think you may be confusing sympathy for the victim of brutal Russian aggression with positive coverage of Zelensky. It chiefly stems from his position as a president of a country trying to fight off an invasion.  

I'm not confusing sympathy for Ukraine with anything. Zelensky banned a lot of  the media and political opposition. Its resulted in precious little objective journalism throughout the war, possibly why the Amnesty report shocked some people who took the information they were given at face value.

 

Anyway the reports there and I'll leave it at that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

I'm not confusing sympathy for Ukraine with anything. Zelensky banned a lot of  the media and political opposition. Its resulted in precious little objective journalism throughout the war, possibly why the Amnesty report shocked some people who took the information they were given at face value.

 

Anyway the reports there and I'll leave it at that.

 

There is plenty of "objective journalism", there is a lack of verifiable facts, because most of it is classified. As tends to happen in a, you know, war.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, SasaS said:

 

There is plenty of "objective journalism", there is a lack of verifiable facts, because most of it is classified. As tends to happen in a, you know, war.

 

Depends what you class as "objective journalism" I suppose. I'm not just talking about the front line. 

 

What journalists knew Zelensky was going to sack his right hand men? What journalists picked up on the issues flagged by Amnesty? 

 

Its all very controlled, nice Vogue shoot though.

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/2/5/ukraines-president-bans-pro-russian-networks-risking-support

 

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/07/18/ukraine-politics-zelenskyy-00046370

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, SasaS said:

Not sure what this has got to do with Amnesty International's decision to go out with this report.

 

I think you may be confusing sympathy for the victim of brutal Russian aggression with positive coverage of Zelensky. It chiefly stems from his position as a president of a country trying to fight off an invasion.  

 

I can't imagine what Amnesty's problem with (((Zelensky))) is.

 

Anyway, Amnesty Ukraine's director has resigned:

 

 

 

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

 

Depends what you class as "objective journalism" I suppose. 

 

If they hired me as a consultant, I would to things differently. But expecting the government would not look to have a firm grip on the most important media in a war of this scale and importance may be a tad naive.

 

There is plenty of decent journalism from foreign press and there are still independent and critical voices in the ranks of local journalists. And there is also media landscape on the other side. Between all those sources, and social media, it really is not that hard to form a picture of what is going on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, SasaS said:

If they hired me as a consultant, I would to things differently. But expecting the government would not look to have a firm grip on the most important media in a war of this scale and importance may be a tad naive.

 

There is plenty of decent journalism from foreign press and there are still independent and critical voices in the ranks of local journalists. And there is also media landscape on the other side. Between all those sources, and social media, it really is not that hard to form a picture of what is going on.

 

I'm not just talking about the battlefield tbh. Its all very vague, which is why few knew about Zelensky sacking his staff, accusing people of treason, closing down tv stations, banning opposition parties and banning journalists (bar vogue).

 

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/07/18/ukraine-politics-zelenskyy-00046370

 

Anyway I'll leave it there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

 

I'm not just talking about the battlefield tbh. Its all very vague, which is why few knew about Zelensky sacking his staff, accusing people of treason, closing down tv stations, banning opposition parties and banning journalists (bar vogue).

 

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/07/18/ukraine-politics-zelenskyy-00046370

 

Anyway I'll leave it there.

 

Everybody knows about Zelensky sacking people and the rest you listed, because it is in the news on a regular basis. It is just that for people outside of Ukraine, this is not big news, because of the war. Internal squabbling and concentration of power will be taking a back sit until the war is over, unless it impacts the war directly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, SasaS said:

 

Everybody knows about Zelensky sacking people and the rest you listed, because it is in the news on a regular basis. It is just that for people outside of Ukraine, this is not big news, because of the war. Internal squabbling and concentration of power will be taking a back sit until the war is over, unless it impacts the war directly.

I think sacking top staff for treason is a little more than internal squabbles. For the amount of money being pumped in, little trustworthy information is coming out, if you exclude Vogue photoshoots.

 

The Amnesty report will shock a lot of Liberals who have only ever been fed the Ukrainian government narrative. Plus the west is facing an extremely harsh financial winter in part because of economic sanctions in support of Ukraine.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Gnasher said:

I think sacking top staff for treason is a little more than internal squabbles. For the amount of money being pumped in, little trustworthy information is coming out.

 

The Amnesty report will shock a lot of Liberals who have only ever been fed the Ukrainian government narrative. Plus the west is facing an extremely harsh financial winter in part because of economic sanctions in support of Ukraine.

 

 

 

He didn't sack them for treason,  at least not the top people, he sacked them for incompetence or accountability (or in an internal political squabble, such as protecting his chief of stuff) because (too) many in their agencies defected (at least that was the official reason given). The sacked Attorney General has already been appointed ambassador to Switzerland if I am not mistaken. not sent in front of a firing squad.

 

I know you latch on to anything supporting the dangerous misconception that Ukraine is not worthy of Western support, but you will have to wait a bit longer and for bigger things to change that.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Remind me again, it’s been what, a week since a video of a man being castrated by invading forces was leaked?  Fucking Ukranians, can’t trust ‘em. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Remind me again, it’s been what, a week since a video of a man being castrated by invading forces was leaked?  Fucking Ukranians, can’t trust ‘em. 

 

Yeah but Zelensky was in Vogue, so, you know, both sides...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Strontium said:

 

Yeah but Zelensky was in Vogue, so, you know, both sides...

And the same people happy to talk about our government being compromised by Russians seem to think it inconceivable it’s happening in Ukraine. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Strontium said:

Special attention should always be given when an indigenous people, tied to the land for thousands of years, are faced with an imperialistic and fascistic neighbour that wants to overturn their democracy and supplant their native culture, presence and language.

Hilarious

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Didn't see nothing on this guy's twitter about Ukrainian disregard for international norms on the 20th when this happened : ‘Kamikaze drones’ strike Russian-controlled Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant

 

Maybe that's because Borrell is only bothered about international norms when it suits.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×